Hello all,

I am a returning member who has not posted in many months. I am posting again under a new username because my old one was compromised - my wife discovered my postings.

My story is a familiar one � my wife entered into what is referred to as an emotional affair with a �man� (I use the term loosely) that she had not seen since they were teens and connected with on Facebook. This was just about two years ago.
A lot has happened since the affair was discovered. I found this site, got lots of support, learned a LOT � about myself, about infidelity, about marriage, about my wife. Unfortunately, the marriage didn�t survive and we are in the divorce process. One of the biggest lessons I learned is that in order for MB principles to work, both partners need to want the marriage to work. That wasn�t the case for us. We also tried counseling, and I�ll never forget that at the very first session when the counselor asked what we wanted, I answered �I want to fix our marriage�. My wife answered �I want to have a relationship with him (me)�. I guess that�s all I needed to know. We had different goals, so we weren�t going to succeed.

After 18 months of trying to save the marriage, I realized it just was not going to work. There are too many reasons to list, but the biggest is that she just did not want to be married to me anymore. As she told the counselor, she just wanted a relationship. She wanted to be roommates, nothing else.
I told her of my intention to file for divorce, and I moved out of the house this past May. Our understanding was that she would stay in the house for the sake of our son(17) who is still living at home, and would pay the mortgage (which is in my name only) along with all other associated bills (utilities, taxes, etc.). I was going to take responsibility for our debt which consisted of credit card balances and a small balance on an equity line. I also made a small list of items that I wanted to take with me. My intent was to leave the house/home as undisturbed as possible and to make it possible for her to stay in the house at least until our son graduated from high school in �12. It was going to be tough for her, but she had just gotten a new full time position and had indicated to me that her family would help and even co-sign if she wanted to re-finance the mortgage. We also agreed that it would be a �no-fault� uncontested divorce in order to keep legal costs to a minimum.

To make a long story short, it didn�t work as planned. She hired an attorney, which I was all for so that she would have some counsel to review the paperwork. This atty, however, decided that she was going to make me �pay� by insisting that I continue to pay the mortgage and ALL bills until our son graduated, that the list I made of items to take be more detailed, etc., etc. In other words, they really started busting my chops. It even got to the point that she called the police on the day I was moving because I was taking an item that she didn�t think I should have (it had belonged to my parents). I won�t get into all the morbid details, but it got ugly. The worst part is that our kids (we have a daughter, 20, also) and their friend were helping me move. I�m sure they will never forget the police showing up.

Fast forward to now � we�re still litigating. The sad part is that we have NO money to fight over. We�ve had financial difficulties for a long time, and are basically broke. She has also stopped paying the mortgage to make things even worse. My atty is frustrated trying to work with her atty. She is playing the delay game.

I�m sure there a lots of things I�ve left out. I just wanted to get a post going so that I can get some feedback/questions and hopefully some guidance.

wish i could offer some advice.

I'm so sorry. The best advice I ever got is that it would take twice as long and cost twice as much as you expect. My first attorney told me the divorce would take around 9 months. Instead it was 15 1/2 months from filing to file decree.

I have been going to a DivorceCare group. It's been really helpful for me in my recovery. They also have short daily emails that you might enjoy.

I'm so sorry. What I tell my friends who are getting divorced is that no matter how mutual it is, no matter how certain you are that you and your STBX can work it out with minimum lawyers, it always gets ugly at some point.

OlderNWiser, you are now learning a lesson that many men learn when it's too late. She got you to leave, which was the main objective. She is also a wayward, waywards lie about everything as long as they get what they want. You would like to think that all attorneys are simply working to get an equitable settlement for their clients, but there ARE unscrupulous attorneys who inflame a situation to be able to bill more hours. The next step is to try to get you to pay all of the attorney costs.

Forget about whatever arrangement you had before. Split everything up to include what you can get for selling your house and all of the debt. Your son is 17 y.o. and should be able to decide who he wants to live with in the short time he has left as a minor. Don't try to deal with her or her attorney, just have your attorney work for you.

Thanks all. I guess I was naive to think we could have a friendly divorce.
I have put all previous conversation about 'deals' aside - I did that the day the police were called - and am only asking what is allowed by law. Our son can decide where he wants to live, and right now he wants to stay in the house with his Mom which I'm in total agreement with. They have a good relationship and it's best that he stay where he's most comfortable. He also knows that he has a place to stay with me if he wants.

Kirby - I'm going to check into a support group. I joined one a while ago, but it's more of a socializing group than support. I'm nowhere near wanting to socialize.

Are you planning on Plan b?

Also, what does your son think about his mom's EA?

By plan B, do you mean no contact? I have kept contact to a minimum since I moved out. It as helped in some ways, hurt in others. What little communication we have is via email. I have found that it depresses me - she continues to point the blame at me.

Both of the kids know about the EA. I'm not sure they can understand the amount of pain it caused, but both know that it was wrong. They also know that there are other factors that caused the breakup of the marriage, but not in detail.

The reason I left and gave up is not the EA itself, but the fact that she was not going to change her ways - she continued to chat with men on FB - and she had no interest in having a true marriage. The kids get that.

If you are getting depressed because of some contact, then I suggest you go full NC.

Are you feeling 100% confident in your choice to divorce? Do your kids understand how you Plan A'd for 18 months? Why can't you be 100% honest with them concerning the divorce?

Now that all financials have been obliterated, do you find yourself second guessing your choice because you didn't prepare for all the outcomes of divorce?

contact is only when necessary.
yes, I know that divorce is the right choice. I am not interested in a 'relationship' and a roommate.
The kids know that I tried to make the marriage work - they understand why I filed for divorce. I'm not sure why you ask why I can't be honest with them. I have been.
Am I second guessing myself? No, not at all. I believe my stbx is, though, now that reality has set in. I sometimes think that's why she is prolonging the divorce process.

Older and getting wiser,

Where are you in the process??????

In my state it goes kinda like this

1 File
2 Discovery
3 Formal mediation
4 Depositions
5 Court
6..... life starts over

If she is going to fight you then it's time to play catch up, by getting your act together. I guess the one thing I have learned is NO one cares about your D except you. When you walk into your lawyer's office you should have a clear plan of what to expect. You'll know that by reading up on it on the internet, and asking around. The court and your lawyer don't care how wronged you were, or what you have done to save your marriage.

A mistake I made was assuming that my lawyer would press the other side and keep things moving as necessary, it wasn't until it was beyond obvious that action was necessary to keep things moving that he finally responded. At this point I expect I will be 2 years to complete the D.

The one thing I think matters is a court date. Lawyers know what it takes to step into court and with the deadline in front of them they respond, not because they care about you they respond because they don't want to be embarrassed in front their colleagues. I felt like I was in a total limbo state until the court date was set and things began to pick up speed.

I know you were hoping to keep thing amicable, and there is a chance it my still work out that way but I would prepare for the worst.

My best bud advised me to make a war chest, it will include everything you need to do battle in court. Phone records, Taxs, bank statements, credit card statements, budget (pre and post divorce). And most of all anything that you have against the STBEX. Facebook postings, IM's letters or notes she has written to you or the OM. Emails. Most of all, you know what might matter so sit down and think it through and start a list and make it happen.

Next I would get a digital voice recorder and would record all conversations with her, in my state it is enough that I know the recording is been made to make it admissible. That will help it she comes after you with restraining orders or you might get her to admit to promises she made.

YOU ARE AT WAR!!!!!! So act like your getting ready for battle. No crying No excesses, You have to be prepared.

Finally I WOULD MOVE HOME IN THE MORNING !!!!!!!!

Unless she has a restraining order against you there is nothing preventing you from going back to your house. I would simple say, " Since this is getting drug out I can see that we need to save every dime we can until things are settled. If she doesn't like it she can leave.

As far as the kids are concerned D sucks and they will have to live through it just like you. I think it would actually help because it should give you more contact with your son.

When you show up at the house with your stuff to move in have that recorder running, and keep it close.

Once your back in the house you will be able to watch your WW better and snoop for evidence of an A. All of that goes into the war chest.

Everything you do in the next few months will affect you for the rest of your life. If you go into court unprepared you will get raped. Your absolute priority is to do everything in your power to protect yourself and your children.

The formal process is pretty much the same. In an uncontested divorce - which is how we started - steps 3 and 4 are usually not needed.



The court date is the key. We've had a date set for a temp hearing twice, but it's been postponed both times


Got it all


I don't want to move back - it makes no sense financially and tactically. I moved out in order to give my son a peaceful, stable final year in school. Our daughter is out on her own already. I also don't want to move back into the house and neighborhood - too many bad memories.

ONW,
I don't have much to add. I hope you are okay.
Your story is very familiar and I know you'll do what's best for your kids to the utmost of your abilities.
I hope you can take some time to give back to yourself in a positive way. You have struggled for so long and you can be assured for the rest of your life that you did everything you could; you exhibited patience and understanding and hope.
NO more Plan A'ing. Just fight the battles you can and protect yourself, right? Eventually you can achieve indifference towards your exWW, that will take some time since she has decided to muck things up. I can say through this process I have shifted my priorities and many things that used to be important no longer are, I'd say I'm much more content- kids notice this and will appreciate you even more as a strong role model.

I agree with others-- I hope you can absolutely minimize contact. If you feel she's prolonging the process maybe you can present a plan B letter stating something to the effect "It hurts me too much to hear your voice, see your face during this process. I need to eliminate contact with you until the D is final." Of course after the D you can proceed at your own comfort level. Point is You need plan B for you, but you don't want her to see it as a gesture of aggression (if she remembers anything from her brief foray into MB, she may have some understanding).
opt

Thanks Opt - good to hear from you.

A couple of months ago she stated in an email that she thought we needed to talk about our relationship and that we needed to develop an amicable relationship 'for the sake of the kids'. My response was that we no longer had a relationship. I told her that she had stopped loving me and found someone else and that it was still extremely painful for me. Her response, of course, was a diatribe of how everything was my fault.

It's just best that there is no communication. I can't take it.

Hey, Older. I have two ways of handling tirades by my ex.
If I'm in a good mood, I read them, but de-personalize them. Usually I end up laughing because they are full of ironies and obvious fallacious arguments.

If I'm not in a good mood, I stop reading as soon as the first insult hits. I skip to the last paragraph which usually contains the pertanent information I need.

If it's the second email after a disrespectful one, I usually don't open it.

And finally, I use my attorney for anything dealing with money. When my ex didn't pay child support for a year, I had my lawyer send a latter. B was furious I hadn't discussed it with him first. But, why? He KNEW he hadn't paid. I hadn't plagued him because business is bad, but also I didn't want to set a precident that not paying was fine.

Anyway, I simply kept reiterating to B that I had my attorney handle it because it was legal business. I got paid within a month.

Good stuff from Gg there, onw.

I think the �amicable relationship� tends to happen once the LB�s are not experienced � by either party. And that obviously tends to happen when they aren�t in each other�s grill every day or at all.

Your situation has shed a little more light on mine for me and that�s this business of IB as opposed to all-out affair. I was always distressed about my exWW�s �affair� because the whole thing was just so ambiguous (especially the thing with OM#2). Yes, there was the element of that they were spending time together doing RA. That is callously dangerous and I couldn�t tolerate it. Your stbxww is flirting with OM(s) on line � clearly not protecting her marriage.

But something you said made me draw a line between that and Independent Behavior (duh, right?). At the very least these relationships that your and my ex have cultivated constitute possibly the most egregious IB. It�s the ultimate: �I�m going to do this regardless of your feelings.� And I also totally agree with Dr. Harley that it�s not the perpetrator that gets to decide the definition of abuse, it�s the victim. So, this business of �no, I�m not doing anything wrong, so it�s your fault you�re hurt by my behavior� is just further abuse piled on top of the original action of the abusive behavior. It�s tantamount to saying �Yes, I hit you with a belt, but that�s just discipline, it�s not abuse, so you�ll have to live with it.�

It�s such a sickness, IB. I remember feeling quite justified in my engaging in IB. Spending money without consulting my wife because �I made the money, blahblahblah�; drinking at dinner because �what�s the problem, blahblahblah?� � never bothering to consider the feelings of those around me (including my kids), regardless of whether I thought their feelings were valid. Just sick.

Live and learn, right?

opt

Please read up on parallel parenting, ONW. This was discussed in my state mandated parenting education class for those divorcing and I wrote about it here: LINK

Thanks, SusieQ. Good info. Our state mandates the parenting class also, but neither of us have attended yet.

Our oldest is 20, youngest is 17 so I see them both as young adults, not children. My approach with them is to make sure they are up to date on the facts, no more - no less. I've gone out of my way not to lay blame one way or the other, but to let them make up their own minds. From what I've seen, my exww has not put blame on me at all, which I appreciate. However, she has not kept them up to date on important facts, which I'm not happy about.