Was reading on another forum today where I actively push MB concepts on those looking for advise on "Surviving A Affair". A thread was started today about Plans A & B. There was not much support for either plan neither was their any real understanding of their purposes.

One poster actually came on and said he'd gotten run off of this site because he didn't agree with the BS doing so much in plan a. He stated that plan a has a low success rate when it comes winning back a cheating spouse so he supports the combination of "just let them go" and the "180".

I posted a reply in order to clear the air about the purpose of plan a which while winning the spouse back is usually a desire, the main purpose IMHO is to set the stage for plan b. He stated that a plan a wouldn't be affective because if they were married, they already know who you are as a spouse. I said plan a is not about who you were but who you are becoming, a better, new and improved spouse.

Did I do the plans justice in my brief explanation?

Why try to get the Chinese to understand you by speaking Greek?

Doing nothing has a much, much higher failure rate, in my experience, and that is what the 180 is: doing nothing. I don't know of any plan that has a better success rate than Plan A. Plan A, in my estimation, saves about 50% of marriages. It gives the marriage the BEST CHANCE of survival.

And no BS was "run off this site" because he didn't agree with the BS doing so much. That is not true.

So many people I talk to about MB are haters! But there is 2 things that stand out to me about why that is..

1. Either they are culprits and dont want to face reality

2. its never happened to them.

The problem with Marriage Builders is that it actually WORKS. It can't force a person to end his affair, but it can save their marriage if they commit to the program. And it is very effective in killing off some affairs. That is a huge threat to many people.

Many people HATE Marriage Builders because it does effectively save marriages. That is a threat in culture that preaches that marriage is disposable.

One of the most hated aspects of MB is the idea of exposure. A close second is they believe it makes the BS put in too much work in plan a.

And isn't that interesting since exposure is the most effective weapon in killing an affair? Normally it is waywards who hate exposure, though. Exposure killed my H's affair the day it was exposed. Almost ALL of the people here who are in recovered marriages attribute it to exposure. I can think of one lady who came from another board and did nothing for weeks, ie: 180, who is TODAY in a recovered marriage because of exposure. She came here, followed the advice to expose, and it killed her husbands affair. But if she had followed the advice on the other forum to do nothing the affair would still be on.

I think also, a lot of it has to do with the idea modern psychology has dropped on us that you need YEARS of therapy, when in actuality what MB is, is kind of a "duh factor". It's ridiculously simple (so easy a caveman could use it), and it's written off because of it's simplicity.


CV

I think the most threatening thing to most people about MB is the way it completely busts up the myth of unconditional love.

People tell me I should not HAVE to do anything towards saving my marriage, as the innocent party. Well, that is true. But I was also innocent when gales blew the tiles off my roof. But I still had to fix it. I couldn't wait for the wind to do it!

Then there is the 'He doesn't love you' camp. The are locked in the mindset that if he really loved me, he would never had an affair.

Which you have to admit is a tough one to argue with.

Unless you've been through the whole nine yards, it is impossible to understand how bad marriage practices, poor boundaries, dishonesty in smaller matters and independent lifestyles set anyone up for an affair. Even people who are in love.

How even people who love deeply and truly DO have conditions and needs that must be met. By the one they have chosen and no one else - or else toruble..

When you've seen a real love falter, it makes sense. Seeing is believing. But to everyone else it just sounds like a crazy theory and the Hollywood movies are the ones who must have it right.

I think thats a great possibility. To the extent that when you read the concepts it makes you feel inferior .. almost like the book is baby talking to you. Possibly alot of people are looking for solutions that are more complicated? Like something writen in latin? .... lol ..

I think that explains the initial confusion when one hears about Marriage Builders. I was personally SHOCKED when our Marriage Builders counselor told me about the EN's of Marriage Builders. I actually burst out laughing! But it doesn't explain visceral HATRED.

I have known people who HATE Marriage Builders. Passionately. When I arrived here 10 years ago this board was routinely attacked by OW and WS's from other boards. It was a favored trolling site.

In my job, I sometimes have to hold people accountable. In a very public way, too, not unlike exposure.

One of my first bosses told me that if certain undesirable sections of the community hated me - and went to the lengths of finding me to tell me they hated me, then I was doing my job right.

I think the hatred of waywards is a plaudit of how successful MB is.

Mark, like everything else in life, it's always wise to check the source of a comment.

We have had posters here who LOVED MB and everything it stands for. But they wanted to tweak it a tad here and there, or they didn't like this or that concept because it didn't work in their case. They completely forget that MB is a program that was tailored by a man who saw that it worked. Maybe not for everyone - even Dr. Harley says not all marriages can be saved. That's called human nature. When their tweaking was called out, they became enraged at the removal of their control and off they went, to go to other places and trash the very place they formally loved. Their posts remain for eternity if anyone cares to see their history here. That's the internet.

Bottom line: this is a website built by Dr. Harley, paid for by Dr. Harley and overseen by Dr. Harley. Other ideas for saving marriages that are counter-productive to Dr. Harley's will rightly get the boot. And why not?? IT'S HIS WEBSITE, PEOPLE!!! IT'S HIS WEBSITE!!! DUH!

But I always get a little chuckle out of the people who go to other websites and trash MB - and then come back and continue to post. Huh. Committed, much?

I SOO AGREE with this!! Do you know when I joined this board it was routinely trolled by waywards and if you said anything derogatory about adultery, you were quickly put in your place? In my first week here I was attacked and called out in a call out thread by an infuriated WW!! I was told I had made a "DJ" against waywards because I told a FWH that it was nice to see someone who had truly recovered. That was viewed as a "DJ" by the other foggy waywards trolling the board.

The board was run by waywards and they were treated like little prima donnas back then.

Oh my goodness.

I have clearly arrived in the age of enlightenment!

Thanks for taking out the trash before I got here, Mel...

You are most welcome, my friend!! I enjoyed every DAMN MINUTE OF IT!!

Mel<-----who was edited 103 times one year and damn proud of it!

Mark, what do you feel you can't learn here, that you would risk preaching Christianity to Muslims to find out?

He's just trying to get help wherever he can. Understandable, but risky because of the confusion generated by other posters who have their own agendas.

If its the site I think it is, there actually is a lot of support for MB. Some people with a lot of venom against too.

But a lot of the vets here can also be seen over there. I won't name anybody and I haven't registered but I did think about it. I just have too much to do already to be trying to win over people that won't ever change their mind.

The same for exposure, some for some against (nutty if you ask me to not do it)

I agree while you are here lets stick to MB, but everyone has the same goal on both sites. Recover yourself, help others.

I suppose you could call it brave to do so... I just never saw any benefit to joining any other marriage boards. Find ONE that works, and stick with that.

I'm not claiming I don't constantly read marriage-related material, but my bias is tuned to MB basic concepts.

I was enthused when one author cited Dr. Harley and PoJA specifically.


Anyway, its in the message above; outside programs can confuse people, and that's why this board sticks to its own materials.