My wife already told my son (14) and daughter (12) that I did something. I'm not sure what she told them. We were supposed to have this Joint Agreement or something, but she did it without me. I think it was good in the end.

My wife told my parents. My brothers don't know, but we live 1300 miles apart and only communicate once or twice a year.


That is not a problem. The making out with the OW was two times about a week apart. The second time occurred around 10:30PM. I have had zero contact with her since that last time. D-Day occurred the next day around 4:00PM. The only way I will see the OW will be accidentally... I don't have any emotional attachment to her at all (disgusting I know).

My fear is that I will run into the OW or her H around town. We live in a major city, but I am always surprised when I run into someone in an unexpected location.

I am not a minister and whatever church assignment I had has been removed so there is no reason to have any close relationships with women. I never had this problem before.

What I did have was poor boundaries with women. Fortunately, I was never working closely with bad women so nothing ever happened in the past (not even flirting). The OW was a different story - aggressive, complementary and really pushed the situation.

That is good that she didn't use the policy of joint agreement in telling your children. It does ot apply to matters involving affairs. It DOES apply to your telling your pastor about her friendship with this man. I notice you didnt use the POJA then.

Do they know the truth about the affair? What is the "something" they were told?

That is NOT what it says on the POJA page:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html

That page is what my wife asked me to agree to... along with the Radical Honesty page. My wife also didn't follow Radical Honesty after I thought we agreed so maybe neither policy actually applies when there has been an affair?


Not true. I told her I would tell him if he asked the right questions. I also told her I would not say anything if that was what she wanted and she said that she didn't want to influence me. Within two minutes of meeting with him he brought it up.

Thanks!

MTH,

Changing churches is difficult - the other family is going elsewhere for now.

Did you ask your W if the church itself is now a trigger? Even more so she indicated that the leadership there asked her just to keep quiet, how can she continue to respect those persons?

I can tell you that since my WW's involvement with OM4 was partially at a church I have never felt comfortable with her going to church by herself, before that I thought nothing of it.

I can't believe how some of the members behave even when I'm there, I guess some flirting is completely unaware, but touching his crotch when talking to my W! Perhaps your W had also observed similar behavior towards you in your church.

God Bless
Gamma

Exposure is not subject to PoJA, sir.

Exposure is protection for the marriage and family by bringing the truth to light.

For instance; should OW now approach you or vice-versa, your children know who she is and what you have done. You are as accountable to them as you are to your wife, as your decisions and actions have threatened and disrupted the health of their family.

So, are you suggesting that I need to out my wife to our children?

I don't know if I feel comfortable with that.

Also, where do you find the clauses to the POJA?

Thanks!

The policy of joint agreement and the policy of radical honesty does not apply to affairs or abuse. In this case, telling your kids is part of the conditions of recovery after an affair. Exposure is not something that you negotiate with a wayward. You don't use the POJA or the PORH with a wayward. And in your case, you are very wayward. The POJA and the PORH are principles to be used when you are well into recovery.


Another example is your wife's radical honesty with YOU. She should NEVER be honest with you about her snooping tactics because doing so would negate her protective measures. Now, in the case of her sneaking around and speaking to this man, what she did wrong was discuss her problems with another man. But, if it had been a woman or a counselor, there would be nothing wrong with her keeping that a secret from you for the time being because you are not a safe person yet. You are just coming off an affair. In many cases, a betrayed spouse needs the support of a friend or maybe this forum and they need to keep that resource SECRET until the WS is no longer a threat.


That is not her enthusiastic agreement. Capitulation is NOT enthusiastic agreement. AS you can see with her reaction, you did NOT have her enthusiastic agreement. I cannot imagine why you told the pastor unless you are playing tit for tat games? Is that the goal here?

Of course not. Why would you do that?

Looking for loopholes??

Your wife has her own thread, sir.
We will discuss what she needs to do with her.

This thread is about you.

I am not your ally to ignore your adultery just because on your thread I pointed out her fog talk.

Her exposing your affair to your children was not subject to PoJA.

Don't deflect that.

Also, I doubt you have the credibility with your children ti say anything about about your wife's actions - appropriate or not.

That won't do.

You need to INTENTIONALLY make sure you NEVER see her.

Not just hope for the best.

"Confess your faults one to another"

James 5:16
http://bible.cc/james/5-16.htm

God's pretty clear on exposure, isn't he?

Marriedtoher, instead of looking for loopholes and focusing on her friendship with this man, how are you doing in EARNING her forgiveness and making Just Compensation?

I am getting the sense here that the goal here is to deflect attention from your affair onto your wife.

Since you are so good at reading articles, how about reading this one and telling us where you stand? Can't We Just Forgive and Forget?

Because I feel threatened that in this very sensitive time my wife will end up falling for someone who listens to her. She told me she enjoys talking with him because he does not disagree with her. That's easy to do when you're not married.

So it seems that her having long conversations with the other man talking about our relationship (and his relationship) and lying about it many times to me is OK?

Seriously, I don't get it.


Hmm... Maybe you should be on my wife's thread and not here?

I really want to know what the rules are. I have already given her complete access to all my email accounts, I gave up my cell phone, I go to bed when she does, my computer is at her disposal AND I am signing over a rental property that we own (no mortgage) to her name only. I have never had an affair nor anything like it before. I have dabbled in porn occasionally.

I don't know what else to do - so I ask for the clauses, because you were using them and to be honest, part of my disappointment with her lying to me about her phone calls with the OM was the fact she lied about it - after agreeing to Radical Honesty.

I agree that her tracking me and other detective things should not be covered under Radical Honesty. But if lying about relationships with other men is approved - I am at the wrong place for marriage help.

None of that answers my question, though. No one disagrees that she shouldn't be discussing her marriage with some man. That is not even up for debate.


Maybe you need to read my post again? Why not read it carefully, think it over and then come back.

You guys are right. I am going to work on humility.

Thanks for everything. This is so difficult sometimes I don't know if I can do it.

Marriedtoher, I will re-post the 2 issues at hand that you and I are discussing:

1. exposure of your wife's friendship with this man to her children and to the pastor without her enthusiastic agreement

2. her use of radical honesty with YOU while you are still a wayward

You keep deflecting to your wife instead of focusing on what you need to do.

You are not serious about recovery.

MTH, Dr. Harley's article on the POJA here is a general explanation. There are indeed exceptions. They aren't described in the article, IMO that is because they would be a distraction there.

Here is a recent radio broadcast where Dr. Harley explains basic exceptions to the Policy of Joint Agreement:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3436
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3437

I hope that clears that up for you. The Policy of Joint Agreement is indeed a fantastic way to build a happy marriage full of romantic love. But there are some other things that are just absolutely required for there to be a good marriage. If one partner is unenthusiastic about those things, then there can't be a good marriage, and there can't be recovery from an affair.

Dr. Harley has edited and refined his materials many times over the years, trying to make them more consistent and easier to understand. I am sure that getting all the information organized is a monumental task. Some of us who've been counseled by Dr. Harley personally and/or listened to his radio show extensively are aware of things like these exceptions to the POJA that maybe aren't mentioned in the intro articles. Dr. Harley often solicits and responds to feedback to improve them. I'd encourage you not to get involved in that at this point, though, as your marriage is in crisis!