She did not give me time enough to keep working plan A. She kept saying "she's done" and she wanted "to be selfish" and "find her own happiness." She said she was going to move out after Christmas.
She has been cold and distant to our children as well.
I gues I combines the carrot and the stick quickly, but felt like there was no choice after her lover's wife called my house! I couldn't see sleeping next to her while she had been lying to my face for 3-4 weeks that the affair was over.
Her affair partner is on his 3rd marriage and has a kid with his current wife.
I figured going to Plan B now, will trully show her what she is losing.

Yeah, the counselor saw what she wanted and stopped allowing me to give input. I left the counselor's office feeling like she just hates a confident man.

I hate to tell you this, DD, but a wayward parent does not care about their child. All they care about is their addiction.

My mother is long term wayward. I came to grips with the fact that she did not love me, decades ago. Haven't seen her in many years. It is better for my sanity.

Please don't make the mistake of trying to persuade your children that their mother "still loves them." You will be contradicting evidence that they see with their own eyes. You will cause them to doubt their own ability to reason. You will drive them insane.

No, you will confuse them further if you both sit down with them and tell them how much their mommy loves them, and then she leaves to go boink her boyfriend. That is not an act of love, that is an act of mental cruelty. If mommy really loved them, she wouldn't be out of the house and running around with some skeevy guy.

I foolishly thought allowing her into the family home to be with our kids would be "doable". Just after I found a little strength in asking her to leave, I went home to see her in the 'family home' and got stabbed all over again. Then she returned on her way to work to say 'goodnight' to girls. I was wrong to think I could handle it.

Sent her this email today:
"My Dearest *edit*,
I believed, that you coming into the family home to visit the girls would be something that I could endure. I was wrong. I cannot welcome you into the family home that your choices have hurt.
I do want you to see our girls regularly. You are an amazing mother, but I cannot cope with the pain that seeing you inside the family home creates.
I propose that after your Mom picks them up from school Tues-Thurs, she brings the girls to her house in the van to spend time with you. I will drive your mom's truck back to her and pick up the girls at 630. This way you get to have dinner with them and do homework with *edit*.
Think about this weekend and let me know what times/days you would like to make arrangements for me to meet you at your mom's so you can spend time with them.
Love,
*edit* "

At the same time you are fighting for your family and marriage ...ON THE BACKSIDE you are also preparing, considering and protecting your legal rights to custody of your children. How about not putting in writing how wonderful a mother she is when:

1. The facts don't support it RIGHT NOW
2. Such words can be used against you in court if and when you ever get into a custody dispute with her.


Again...we aren't saying she's always been a bad mother only that right now, she is certainly NOT behaving like a "wonderful mother". I hope that changes for you and your kids but the fact she was willing to pack a bad and leave so easily makes me fearful for you.

Only you know your tolerances and if you can't take it anymore there's no reason you can't go into a dark plan B. It's actually rare that a father/husband can do so (because most WW's don't just leave).

I'd also consider carefully how much custody you give her. She's not a fit parent right now and the kids need protecting. My wife and many others have totaled cars during this time that their minds are fixated on an affair partner. The children are NOT a priority in the least. Like I said...protecting your kids and your legal rights on the down-low is also strategic. She may actually wake up as she hits rock bottom realizing she's basically given up custody of her kids permanently. I realize you think your kids need their mom regularly but she's not herself right now and they'd be much much better off if she ended the affair and woke the heck up...so don't think you are doing the kids favors by running yourself ragged trying to arrange visitation for a woman that just walked out on you AND her kids.

Plus...overnights are the key to winning custody disputes. Should you end up divorced...it would behoove you NOW to attempt to maximize the number of overnights the kids have at your house in their beds. Sure she can spend time with them but as long as she'll abide by it...insist that they don't spend the night with her wherever she's living. Realize too...you've got no legal rights to enforce any verbal custody agreement with her absent a court order. Right now...technically you each have 100% custody of the children. If she takes them or keeps them it's not kidnapping so don't call the cops....just come here and post and we'll help you figure out what to do (should it come to that).

Welcome to MB...sorry I rambled a bit all over the place.

Mr. Wondering

Thanks for the advice, we are both in l.E. so we know all that stuff.
This is what she emailed in response to my request for her not coming into the house:

"Dear ___,

I understand your position and the pain I have caused to you and the family. We both need to sit with girls and help them understand what is going and I think it needs to be done sooner rather than later. I would like to keep their world as stable and consistent as possible. Regardless of the hurt we feel we need to suck it up a bit and help them get through this. If you are talking to a counselor maybe could provide some insight and healthier ways to help them cope.

I understand the need to push me away because of the choices I have made and the destruction they have cause. I just have a hard time understanding the benefit of disrupting the girls world any more than it has been because of the of the pain we feel. I am in no way asking to pretend things are ok. I just think me being able to drop them off or do normal little things around the house is being unreasonable. If you are there or not its your choice. But seeing eachother in passing is something I hope you could cope with if it makes things easier on the girls.

Whether or not it makes any difference to you or if you will even believe I am telling the truth I have a need to clarify a few things. Yes I have been talking to ___ on the phone and at work. I meet him at ___ on Monday to talk. Since you found out about the affair I have not been intimate with him.

I am not staying out of the house to because I am choosing to be with him. I am staying out of the house because I dont think I should be there and I have caused you and our family to much hurt and pain. I can not forgive my self for the damage I have caused.

I stand by my choice to fix me and figure out what it is I need in life. I would also strongly caution you when talking to ____ wife. Regardless of what has transpired in the past few weeks. She is a very manipulative self serving person.
I m not worried about her telling you what she thinks him or I are doing or have done. I am concerned you will underestimate her or let her know too much about you and the girls. Please be cautious when sharing personal info with her.

Im sorry for the hurt I have caused you. You do not deserve what I have done to you. You have always been a kind, loving, honest and dedicated husband. I only wish I could have been the same for you.

Love
_____"

So I am unsure what to do? Is it now just EA and not a PA? I believe otherwise, but do not know...i am confused.
Meeting him after our counseling appointment is soooo wrong!

Help!

I just made this mistake over thanksgiving. I told my daughter with my wife present and it did not go well. I'm still trying to clean up the mess. Tell them without wife present.

So I guess this varies from state to state but I asked my lawyer this today and she told me to not let her take them from the marital home without a written custody agreement. I assumed that meant the law did not allow for the kids to be removed from the marital home. Sounds like I need to get some clarification.... Maybe she meant I need to block the door if she tries to take them from our home

Have you stayed in contact with the OMs wife? Your wife is terrified that you will contact her as indicated in her letter. I would suggest you stay in contact with her and expose the affair at work. They are worried about the OMW for some reason.

Yes I have talked with OMW. Told her all the info I knew. She told me all the multiple atm transactions in our city by om. (only person he knows in my city is my wife)

I told some of her coworkers at her work today.(We are both in LE and I have to regularly go to where her agency is to investigate crimes----fun!)

Almost lost it walking into the office where OM works, thank goodness he works nights.

I think your attorney is talking about the difference between LETTING her take the kids versus her just taking them. Your attorney is advising you to just not be agreeable and maybe fears if your wife takes them you may have to go to court to get them back. It's not like you can just enter any property she hides the kids at and "steal" them back. Until a court decides you each have 100% custody (which includes your right to tell her "no" she can't take them and if she abides by that..great). Now a stupid parent may try to barge in and try to steal away the kids but that wouldn't look good in court. It's too upsetting and harmful seeming, so instead, they pick them up from school or daycare early or just meet them at the bus stop.

Once the kids are gone...and the absconding spouse won't agree on anything ...then you must file to try to force an agreement.

Your attorney may also feel it's a way to make her have to file something knowing you won't look bad for merely insisting the kids stay in their home.

Rambling again...goodnight.
Mr. Wondering

I think you said OM's Wife is his 3rd wife....which means there's a good chance that she was the OW in his second marriage. As such, she MAY be someone you actually do want to avoid to a large extent. Work with her for information purposes only but don't share too much with her or she'll be suggesting a revenge affair in no time.

Watch your boundaries...she could be just as wayward thinking as OM (and your wife) are.

Then again...I could be completely wrong but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Mr. W

good advice about OMW, and already thinking it myself. We have only talked 3 times and it was more cathing each other up to speed.
Yuk a revenge affair????? That kinda the opposite point of trying to do everything right!

Thank you everyone for the advice.

I replied to my wife's request to come and go in the house to keep the girls routine, here is what I wrote:
Dear ___,

I have some good printouts on talking with kids about separation.

As far as the idea you have about coming over to the house, it is not ok. I understand what you are believing regarding the girls, but it will only cause more confusion. ("Yay, Mommy is back home....Why is Mommy not here again...etc") And, part of your choices (Continued contact with ___ and a desire to separate from the family) do not warrant contact in the family home.

For the girls fragileness, any more confusion, would be worse. ___ is well aware that you have left because "we broke up." I have reassured ___that we both love her, we are just going to be living in different places, and she and ---will be spending time with both of us. ___ is "going with the flow" as usual.

Let me know what time tomorrow you wanted to get the rest of your things and I will make sure I am not here. And, let me know when you wanted to see the girls this weekend.

I love you when we married, and I still love you to this day.
___

I know, I know, this is not full plan B becasue we are emailing, but her mom is still too much of a wreck over this to do the IM for us. I have asked my Dad, and still trying to implememnt it.
(Hard with both of us in LE and work opposite shift work)

Okay, you shouldn't be in Plan B yet, and you really aren't anyways. You are trying to implement Plan B lite, which is really Plan C(for compromise, confusion).

You should be in Plan A right now. Stop telling her that she can't come to your home. Tell your child about the affair YOURSELF. And ITA DO NOT tell your children that mommy loves them.

Your wife wants to have the fantasy divorce. She wants to remain friends. Use the carrot AND stick to show her that you will NOT be friends with her should this lead to D.

Click on the newly betrayed link in my siggy and read through it, ask questions.

Also, buy the book Surviving an Affair. Read it.

During your Plan A, you will prepare for Plan B, properly this time.

Now, get reading, so we can help you better.

(muppets were working overtime)

Also, the next time she brings up her ADULTERY, call her on it. Don't use AOs, or any other LB, but make her well aware that she is committing ADULTERY. She is still MARRIED. Doesn't matter if she isn't living in the marital home.

Let her know that it is unacceptable for her to rub her affair in your face. She is just trying to make herself feel less guilt over it by being "honest." PUH-LEASE.

UPDATE:
Ok, I have not been explaining this well.....she DOES NOT want to move back in, she only wants to be able to come and go in the house still with the kids when she wants to.

I tried Plan A for a steady 3 weeks. Then found out she met her lover after our counseling appointment. How can I keep using plan a if she doesnt want to live here????????

Almost done with "Surving an Affair." I had planned to change locks today and let her know we will be using my father (nuetral in all of this, logical, a retired cop) as the IM.

Ok, I will admit, between the book and this website, Plan A and Plab B seem different than what I read.

In counseling on Monday, before she said "separation" she admitted she had seen me making changes and trying....but she said "it's too late."

Keep the advice coming, it is helping me through this. I'm tired of crying.