Thanks for the vote of support, but it is not huge.

The problem in my life these days is not Mrs. Hold. It is me. I have in fact given up on working toward happiness. Or any other goal. I am just drifting along waiting to die. Not trying to get ahead at work. Not trying to reconcile with Mrs. Hold. Not pursuing friendships to enrich my life. Just muddling through at work each day waiting to get home and anesthatize myself with computer games until I go to bed and then get up and repeat the cycle.

I didn't say those things because I care about our marriage. I said those things out of fear. I know I am not meeting Mrs. Hold's needs. I know she is therefor vulnerable to an affair. I know I would feel pain if she had an affair. So I said what I needed to say to help reduce the chance that she will pursue the affair. But that doesn't mean I am willing to make the changes required to meet her needs. I am not.

Forget the ECT. I just want to be put down.

Could you be struggling with depression?

Vulnerable and willing to engage in are two way different things. Dr. Harley believes we're all wired for an affair whether needs are met or not. However, regardless if we getting needs met or not, we are still responsible in whether we engage in affair activities or not.

Yes, you are correct that in the end it is her choice. Still, it is possible that words might impact her choice. If she thinks that I won't mind because I don't care much about her, she might be more likely to give in to temptation. If I make it clear that I do mind very much, it might strengthen her resolve. And speaking merely theoretically, it is possible the use of phrases such as going to the firearms store, cutting off pieces of a man's anatomy in thin slices and then feeding them to his affair partner, or poison tipped bamboo spikes, might cause a woman to be more inclined to resist the urge. Not that anyone would act on such primitive urges. But as compared to "when I think of you cheating, I think of locking myself in a dark room and crying all day", I think more colorful imagery might help convey the depths of one's feelings.

Hold:

I heard a song this morning that I think may apply to you:

Honey come home
my stubborn ways are behind me now
They�re behind me now
And there�s nothing here
that will not break down
like you never did

The kids say hello
to us in our separate homes
Darling please come home
I�ve cleaned out the fridge
Wiped the counters off
and put away my clothes

Do you remember every block
Every minute of every walk we used to take
We were young so many years ago

And I think of all this time
that we have wasted with all our fighting and I cry
Just want to die with the one I love beside me

�Someday,� you said,
someday you will miss my head
lying next to yours
in our marriage bed

Do you remember every block
Every minute of every walk we used to take
We were young so many years ago

Oh God I love my vices but they�ve taken me to places
That I never thought I�d go and I am ready to be home
And I think of every spark every whisper in the dark, now it�s time
Just wanna die with the one I love
Just wanna die with the one I love
Just wanna die with the one I love
Just wanna die with the one I love beside me

Love love love

Honey come home



I know that you do not yet have separate households, but I worry that your intellectualizing and sarcasm is ruining your chances for happiness. You are so concerned with defending your ego that you are missing the big picture. You are an important person in your family's life, and you are depriving them of your love. Don't be so judgmental of yourself. Forgive yourself for not being perfect, and it will become easier to see how important you are in their lives.

Thank you for posting to me. I can feel the concern in your words.

I will never forgive myself. And I don't imagine I will ever share my love with my wife. If I did, she might love me back. We can't have that. No, not at all.

Hold:

What would you say to a friend or brother who had your attitude? Wouldn't you want them to see how good life could be if they would only get out of their own way, soften their heart, and look at the world through new eyes? I'm not sure why your situation speaks to me, but I want you to have an Aha! moment where you see that things can be different for you. I feel like you are standing before the banquet of life, and you are starving. I don't know if you are into spiritual concepts, but I just finished this incredible book, The Mystery of Love, by Marc Gafni. He talks about Eros as the creative principle of life, and how passionate life can be when we engage in it.

I realize that this is probably coming off as preachy, but I don't want you to waste any more time being numb when you could be grateful for all that you have. Guess I better climb down from my soapbox now.

I'm curious about your story, coloradogirl. Care to share it with us?

My husband and I have been married for 33 years, with a daughter, 29, and a son, 27. When our son graduated from college, we were faced with a stale marriage where we didn't pay attention to each other's ENs. I love self-help books, and I ran across HNHN in a bookstore. What a revelation! I was so thrilled to read about an action plan to revive your marriage. I was discouraged by the break up of so many of my friends' marriages, and I wanted to find a way to revive the passion that we used to have. I see too many people thinking that they married the wrong person, but they just need to change their idea about how love works. We watch romantic movies and obsess on the initial feelings of falling in love, but we do not have a clue about how to keep love alive when the reality of daily problems overwhelms us.

I am a victim of negative thinking, so I was moved to comment on Holdingontoit's thread. When I finally realized that I did not have to listen to the chattering monkey in my head, life opened up for me, and I wanted to share this with others suffering from critical thoughts of themselves. When you see that there is another story to be told about the same facts, you can stop wishing that life conform to your expectations.

As far as we know, the surgery went well. Recovery is very painful. Have not been back to the office yet, except to stop in and pick up mail Friday. Hope to get back to work Monday. Best wishes to all.

Coloradogirl, thank you for the warm thoughts. I wish you and your husband many years of marital joy.

Back in the office. Still hurts but on the mend.

Hold,
I missed it, or maybe you did not say: what kind of surgery? Serious?

Hold, what's going on with you these days?

Thanks for asking. Physically things are going well. No bleeding and red cell levels are up almost to normal. I am cleared to exercise. All I could ask for.

Kids are great. D14's small routine came in top quarter in age group nationals. S16 drove himself to SAT prep class this morning in Mrs. Hold's car (since she is out of town with D14 at nationals). He is off the soccer field now. Then summer league basketball game tonight. About as good as life gets for a 16 year old.

As for me, life and marriage are SOSO. I am the problem.

Mrs. Hold has been more affectionate lately. Very nice. And yes, I told her so. D14 gave me a hug one day. Mrs. Hold asked why she didn't also get a hug. D14: "Mom, you are a cat who doesn't like hugs". I said "but there is always room for more member of the puppy team. Would you like a hug?" Then D14 gave her a hug. Then I gave her a hug. Mrs. Hold seemed pleased. She used to roll her eyes and pull away when either of us tried to hug her.

Then on Monday while we were recovering from the hurricane, Mrs. Hold kissed me. She said she was sorry she turned her head away from me the last time we had sex. She said she knows I like to kiss and wives should want to kiss their husbands. Then she apologized for not being "into it" when we had sex. I told her I appreciated her being there for me even though she wasn't into it.

Wow, two apologies from Mrs. Hold in one day!

I'm really glad to hear that, and also glad that you didn't add "but all that means nothing because I am a self-defeating loser" or something along those lines. Hope you're not quietly stewing in such thoughts. If nice things like this happen, go ahead and enjoy them.

Do not worry that Armageddon is coming. The world has returned to normal. Went to a wedding over the weekend. Mrs. Hold held me at arms length throughout the slow dancing. Then this morning after the kids left for school I snuggled close to her and she complained that I was interfering with her relaxation before she had to leave (over an hour later) for spin class.

HI LA

Did you write that book yet?
I would like a copy

Just wanted to poke my head in and say that after 19+ years of being disappointed, and 14+ years of openly fighting with Mrs. Hold, we have finally gotten our sex life to a place where I am comfortable with it. Never thought we would get here. Not sure how we did. But I appreciate all the support I received over the years here at MB.

That is great, hold!!