chickadee, your H is a good guy who is man enough to face the heat. I believe this because I have heard him to speak to Dr Harley. I would most definitely go to your family's Christmas gathering WITH HIM so he can get this out of the way.

Your family needs to see that you are together and are working on your marriage. I don't know how the logistics would work, but he might want to extend an apology somehow before you go. Maybe a personal phone call or even an email.

I predict you both will feel much better if you go and get over the awkwardness sooner rather than later.

I'm feeling very christmas-ish today!

To quote U2.. Love conquers all. I think that the get together would be a great way to show that. It might even help them heal. Let's face it, the sin of adultery is greater against the spouse than the extended family and if you can model how you are recovering and forgiving, you can help them in this as well. What you think may be an awkward Christmas may well end up being, years down the road, something the fam remembers as a time of joy and healing.

CV

Hmmm... Let me expand here.

He could draft a "family newsletter" for targeted individuals including; a "state of the marital union," an apology, a brief description of the marital recovery plan, and a preemptive thank you to supporters of the marriage. Include a family photo.

Written and signed by him.

uggh just dont know. had a convo with Brother which went so-so. he ended it with a less than positive recovery push (basically people dont change and restrictions dont work, yada yada).

I am back and forth...I am actually sick to my stomach about this, none of this is giving me positive feelings about recovery. H is being very good. he sees me very down and feels very bad and is trying to make me happy.

we may just stop in and leave less than an hour (wavering on this). i dont want to get into it with them at this time, my energy is zapped. then off to dinner with H sister, uggh.

he is committed to calling each of them, but i suggested he wait til after christmas, bc i really dont want to deal with the fallout.

i likened it to getting hit by a bus then having to call family to tell them hey my brusies are healing thanks for asking. why do i have to be the one who is always taking the first step, its very frustrating and annoying.

on the other hand i have some wonderful friends that are standing by us.

thank you all.

I suggest you remember and hold on to the fact that the folks who are still (understandably) ticked off with your H only need to agree to be courteous to your H during family gatherings. They don't need to act as if they are all best buddies. Ask them if they think they can manage this. In time, they may see your H has made permanent changes, but for now they sound like they're in a "wait and see" mode.

If the gatherings are large enough, there may be enough folks there to avoid awkward moments. There may be one or two sympathetic people who could hang with your H.

It's really tough on family and friends when this happens. They stand by you and don't want you to get hurt.

Are you taking the Online Seminar? If so, you can also ask Dr. Harley for his suggestions in the private forum area.

I would only attend the family gatherings with H if both enthusiastically agree.

well thank goodness those holidays are over. not so much drama, which is a good sign.

family has stepped up a bit- had some frank discussions- they may not like him i get it- but i hope they support my decisions.

still plugging away- we see time will tell. i think i am finally starting to get my head into a less defensive mode.

happy new year to everyone- i truly hope that this will be better! and thank you thank you thank you!!!!!

Happy New Year, chicka!

thank you susie! i wish you and all of the other MB'ers a wonderful NEW year.

I cannot believe is almost a year since my life changed.

I think I still walk around in a bit of a daze, did this really happen to me???

I still have triggers, yes a lot, but not as many.

I still have nightmares and don�t sleep that much.

I still have doubts that it won�t happen again, this is my own brain working overtime. The what if�s sometimes are too much.

I am still looking over my shoulder that some skankho won�t reach out for old time sake. I know I cannot control their actions, but it still keeps me up at night.

H and I are working thru the program and it has been great our relationship is much stronger, but we still have far to go.

I have to get over the past and that has been tough for me and I am still struggling, I would definitely say that I am more secure and prepared and any decision I make I will be fine, I would not have been 6 mos ago and not without MB.

H has not had any contact with any of the skankho�s since Dday�s other than the NC letters. Spending well over 15 hours- more like 30+. All EP are followed. He is doing everything to fill my LB. H has been working on it, but I was getting a sense of holding back, so I asked him. He didn�t think he was but after thought he said I can see what you are saying.

He has doubts about where I am. I can see that logically that makes sense after all. I told him, I have done all of the heavy lifting that I can. From day one I was committed to making this work, so that should be the sign that I was all in. I asked that he think about it, he said he�s in and he thought he was doing a good job. I reassured him that yes he was doing good, I just need more. Not more flowers, cards and gifts.

More from the heart. Not the tip toeing waiting for my response kind of way.

I think he is nervous that I am not going to be able to do this or that could just an excuse in case it fails, but I don�t think so. H does not get emotions, yes like many men not in touch with them, but worse we are talking the first time he is dealing with any emotions (another thread called the petri dish experiment- it was the same for me- and NG commented on how cold hearted that H was- that was my problem- who is this person that I am married to????).

Now that�s not to say that H has no emotions (now he got a lot) but what he was selfish and totally consumed by himself, with not a care about anyone else, everything/one is disposable. It�s a great self-protection mechanism if you want to live your life like that. H was always like that, I knew it from the beginning- it�s very clear to me now, I full well knew what I was getting into � I thought It would change�.. ( I was 18�.)

I think he has always been a bit of a renter, I told him need a buyer. Full in and no exceptions- I think this is why I struggle so much with the past and will it happen again. Do I believe that it will, I don�t know, I do know that he would leave first. Doesn�t mean that it would be any easier still the same situation.

So he made a comment about getting married again, I said well get on it get a ring and do all of the things that a man would do during that process. � he asked that we make plans to look this week

We spoke about having children as my clock is almost done if not already, he ran out and bought 3 testing kits.

Maybe I am rushing things but this is what I asked for � all in or all out. Just the roller coaster that I am on. One day at a time.

Btw- I sticking on recovery zone the rest is too chaotic for me at this time and I need to move beyond all the bad.

No real words of wisdom here, but just wanted to drop by and say hello. For what it's worth, I get where you're coming from and it sounds familiar. Some good days, some not so great, but the good ones are becoming the majority now.

Hmm, I didn't realize it had been a year already. It doesn't seem like that long ago.

Chickadee,

We purchased Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders, and that is The Book that completes the MB education. It puts it all together into relationship interaction and tells us exactly what a Buyer relationship looks like and how it acts, contrasting with Freeloader and Renter agreements. It's well worth a read, if you haven't already.

The Buyer relationship is defined by the POJA. Renters and Freeloaders are just not into POJA. Freeloaders want to do what THEY want to do and Renters are often into reluctant agreement (eg, sacrifice.)

As my H and I continue to practice POJA, we see improvement overall. We practice POJA even in deciding what game to play, which movie to watch, what food to eat, just to build up the negotiation skills. H's willingness to use the POJA helps me believe that he is "getting it" and is becoming/has become a Buyer.

Doormat No More often posts to people in recovery that the litmus test is about two years into recovery. Is the marriage better than it was pre-A? Are the ENs being met in the way we each like? Are we both avoiding LBs? Are we using the POJA for all decisions that affect the other spouse?

Recovery is step-by-step and day-by-day. We're now about 6 weeks post NC, and it's better than it was even a couple of months ago. The MB program is becoming more ingrained and habitual to our thinking and that's making us interact with each other in a much better way.

thank NW! february really crappy month for me, so i am getting prepared to get thru it.

51cd- i did get the book beacause a few on here mentioned it and something was just clicking with the mindset to me.

I am almost done and i will have to reread- i am flying thru it just to get the information fast, i cannot slow down.

we are doing nothing without POJA, but we dont really had any issues to POJA - it seems very strange. I think our life have become so self absorbed in each other now- or H is doing anything i want bc he still in the dont want to f this up mindset??????

games, movies food those things arent things we discuss- we have never had take out the garbage type issues. but no decisions are made without discussion.

if no POJA is needed do you think we should still practice do it even though we dont need it on those issue just for practice? like the supermarket

what am i missing on POJA????

no LB anymore- the only LB was the independent behavior and thats non existent. oh yeah and having sex with other is a LB.

we have both cut the work events to only the ones that are required by my work basically. H has stopped all of his, so we are home by 6:30 and are together 24 on weekends. remember we still have the plague so people arent really knocking down our door to spend time with us, and family well thats about the same.

the renter thing just got me, this was his MO forever!!, he is not doing that any more, but you have to remember its almost ingraned in his personality and though his behaviors now are not that way, hes need to own that he is now a buyer.

on to triggers- i have bad dreams, they are very vivid and are very upsetting- i actually punched H 2 nights ago- didnt know it. H keeps asking what he can do to help me or do i want to talk about the dreams. I dont want to talk about them beacuse the are trigers and usually about his cheating and i have to get it out of my mind. any suggestions?? I tell him about the wolves eating the puppie dreams, yes i am a sick individual. I am very busy in my head at night.

i have tried many things over the year to stop the bad dreams, music, EMDR, baths, tyenol PM.... reading a nice book before bed is the best. but its not a sure fix. Any ideas on how to handle H wanting to help me or the dreams

His wanting to fix the dreams is a compliment, actually. We tend to want to fix things

Are you on any medication that could cause the vivid dreams?

When I was on chantix for quitting smoking, I had some hellacious dreams that were crystal clear and sometimes pretty odd. Just a thought, but you might ask your doctor about it.

Why didn't you have kids before, chickadee?

Sorry vivid dreams for my whole life not just this year. Typo. No meds that do that. Dumb heart med now. Chantix for2 weeks flipped out stopped. Always been me at 4 I remember waking up getting into moms bed crying from them. Over active brain.

Sugar. I have to sing everytime I say ur name. Sugar sugar... that my friend is a whole other story that has become much clearer since this all happened. Tomorrow. Bc I am on my kindle and its taken me 20 min to not look like tag in this post. Maybe that was his problem

Tsg. See it corrected itself. Rrrrgh keyboard tomorrow

Yeah, sounds familiar--I had psycho crazy dreams, felt like puking every time I took a pill and had mood swings like you wouldn't believe. I don't know what was worse, smoking or that medicine.

Then I had to wean myself off the pills because it made me want to smoke even worse when I stopped taking the medicine.

Yes, always stay in practice with POJA, even if just for the small things. One of the examples Dr. Harley gives in his book Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders is about practicing the emergency procedures for scuba-diving. When were they practiced? When they weren't needed. That way, when the procedure IS needed, it's already ingrained in the brain, handy and ready to use.

That's why we negotiate anything worth discussing. We're in your situation, for the most part: plenty of UA time, reasonable work hours, not much in the way of big decisions right now. But there will come a time for sticky decisions requiring a thorough understanding of the POJA, and staying in practice means the technique will already be natural to use.



It's great that your H was able to work out those night events with his employer. Congrats on that big one.


Consistently using the POJA will become more of a habit for him as he begins to see that there is great mutual benefit. It's not only that it makes YOU happier, but he will be happier with the decisions you are both making together.

My H freely confesses to being a freeloader for much of our marriage and he LOVES the POJA. He was completely into independent behavior, making nearly all the decisions unilaterally for about the first 20 years of marriage. I became superfluous since he didn't even need me anymore to meet his ENs. Masturbation pretty much covered SF and video/computer games covered RC. The POJA is revolutionary in our marriage! That he is using the POJA is the evidence I needed to see that he is a buyer now.

I wish I had something to offer for your dreams, but I don't. When I have something on my mind, I generally toss and turn and suffer insomnia, rather than actually fall asleep and have bad dreams.

I'm just quoting Dr. Harley. And the quote is (paraphrased, he states it many different ways), "If after two years your marriage is not better than it has ever been, you should plan to separate."

Sugar, i will get to that, just busy at work today and not the right atmosphere. and i guess i have to figure out where to begin other wise i would be rambling, so with the lack of typing skills it would not come out incoherent.

NW- i stopped it the day i was in the shower and could not stop crying. the next day i felt very strange. I asked a collegue also an MD would anything be wrong about doing that bc i was not feeling so good. - he flipped out- i should not have stopped it immediately and i was watched like a hawk for the next few days. Do i believe it can work, yes- if you change all of your habits before you start for a few weeks and just do it for the 2 week you are allowed to smoke. by day 3 you dont want it and you habits are different. thats my opinion on it.

thank you DoNoM.

Longway- I will work on POJA. but really in your average day what do you POJA. I may be making this out to be something bigger/ smaller than it is. But i feel like i am missing something with it.

yes the work thing was big and sometimes things creep back in like comments about how this dinner or that is happening. I just say well that would have been nice but i am sorry i am unable to do that in our marriage. its like a pyro wanting to go look at the house he burned down, NO. Listen it may effect his job and we will deal with it, but sometime you have consequences from your actions. Is it ok for me to say i will not POJA one of these events. or is that a SD, DJ and LB?