My wife of 5 years had an affair with a mutual friend. They knew each other only a month and a half (in total!), and the second time he met us, he got her drunk, got her alone, and kissed her. She argued and said they just have to be friends, and he continued making romantic advances for 3 weeks... until they worked. They had built an EA, and it went physical for something around a week before I made her confess to me. D-Day was November 3rd. At my request, she cut off contact with the OM the following morning. Told our mutual friends that we could not see the OM ever again, and gave me her email and facebook passwords. She slept variously on the couch and in hotels that first week, and then left town for the second week, and finally left the country to go stay with her family for a month (all at my instigation, and frankly, under my watchful eye).

After humming and hawing, and many of the typical WS comments that I see posted by so many others here ("maybe I'm just not cut out for monogamy." "Maybe I would be happier alone." "I deserve to be alone." "I love you but I'm not IN love with you", and others), she has committed to working to save our marriage. We are both seeing a therapist in individual and couples sessions. She is working HARD and PAINFULLY on keeping NC.

This weekend she finally broke the deception and told me the whole truth, in response to my expressed need for openness and honesty. I knew she hadn't told me everything before, of course no one does. To me, this felt like the whole truth. There were enough personal revelations and visible pain that I believe it... and it fits with the timeline and details that I already have. I know that one night while she was away she got drunk, and broke NC by emailing the OM from her (formerly) secret email account to say "I miss you". The next morning she wrote a message pretending to be from a friend saying "I'm deleting this account for my friend. Please do not respond." and she deleted the account (I'm still verifying that one)

But basically, she has been putting in the effort to make this work, and I see that. I've told her about my emotional needs as I've been figuring them out myself, and she's been trying to meet them. But she's still really visibly in withdrawal. She has enormous depressive swings, and terrible urges to contact the OM. She talks about having such a terrible fear of the unknown, since she doesn't have a "life line" to him to know what he's going through. She's (unreasonably, I think) afraid of a physical response from him... and I think more concerned for his emotional response. To me, this is all classic withdrawal.

But I'm ready for Recovery. I'm revving my engine, and actually EXCITED about building a new, stronger relationship out of the ashes. When she's in a funk like that though, any step I make to try and support or help her only intensifies her guilt. She feels worse, more hopeless. And she craves contact with the OM.

So I'm thankful that I have a wife who relatively easily has recommitted to our marriage, and who is so visibly trying to match deeds to her promises. She is really trying to comfort me, and we have the feeling of trying to work through this TOGETHER.

BUT the withdrawal is really wearing on me. This guy was an [censored], in a big way. And to know that she still has longing for him... is killing me. I know I just have to be patient... but how long does this last? She only KNEW him for 6 weeks, I had really thought that 6 weeks would be enough to get through it. But she still doesn't have the strength to start re-investing in meaningful ways, ie filling out the emotional needs questionnaire. So much of what we do still amounts to distracting her from her pain. A big part of it seems to be coming back home to this city, where there are so many triggers to remind her of the OM.

So I'm looking for advice from the MB community. How long did withdrawal last for you? What did you do to get through it? Should I consider that drunk, one way email as a breach of NC, starting everything over again? How did you help your WS get from Withdrawal into Recovery?

Hi losttexpat, welcome to Marriage Builders. A couple of things stand out to me. If your wife gets in trouble when she drinks, it might be a good idea to stop drinking. An important part of recovery from an affair is eliminating the conditions that led to the affair. In her case it is alcohol and her inappropriate boundaries around men. So in addition to alcohol, she needs to get rid of her opposite sex friendships. That would include social networking sites, which seem to be a breeding ground for affairs.

Withdrawal can take up to 6 months but every time she contacts him [or even looks at his picture] put her back to day 1 of recovery. Is she gawking at his picture on facebook?

Most marriages do not recover from infidelity because they don't/won't take the steps necessary to recovery. They end up in a crippled version of the pre-affair marriage and are more vulnerable after the affair than before. Here is what it takes to recover:

here

Thank you for your fast and considerate answer!

I didn't realize that just seeing a picture could be such a setback, but of course it makes sense. She un friended him on facebook, and with his account restrictions that means she can only see his profile picture and name. But he was a mutual friend and a part of our life here... not to mention hitting on my wife aggressively... so he's in almost every picture we have from the last 2 months! Do we actually have to go back and delete all those pictures?

Now that I say (type) it like that, it would be a huge relief to me. Not just to have no contact, but to have him erased from our life entirely. I suppose that's my answer right there.

Many of the betrayed get rid of everything their FWS wore; one person on this forum burned the couch where he discovered his wife and AP embracing. We got rid of every single reference we could find and even dumped a woman friend of FWH who had supported the A.

I used to google the OW's name out of a horrible morbid curiosity until I heard Dr. H. address that in a radio show saying that not only does the WS need to never be in any sort of contact with the AP, including googling or looking the person up in FB, the BS needs to avoid it as well.

Life is full of enough triggers without having the obvious ones in front of our faces.

Furthermore, many people completely delete their FB accounts or at the least, share an account. Be aware that if you share mutual friends, his name will pop up in comments from time to time.

Yeah. Actually, I think the first step is to engage her in more of the directing and planning for the recovery. She had a really problematic relationship with her parents when she was a kid, where they snooped in her diary and otherwise broke her confidence through breaches of privacy. This has big consequences in the present situation - just asking for access to her accounts sets off an old, deep defensive trigger in her. She's working on that in therapy, but in the immediate sense it means that we're still negotiating ways to build transparency and trust again, without setting off that old instinct.

I realized today that what I really want is to block his facebook page from our internet connection, take down all the pictures of him from our facebook photos, untag her and I from other people's photos with him in it... and remove all photos of him from her hard drive. My wife is obsessive about keeping photos, so I probably will have to just move them to a USB drive that I keep in my possession. We can talk about restoring them in a few years (when neither of us will want to!). The problem is, asking for that would definitely set off her defenses. Not because it's unreasonable or because she doesn't understand it... just because it's someone intruding on her privacy.

So I think it would be much more effective to make that decision with her, by bringing her into this process. I've talked a lot about this site, and I think it's time for us to start reading it together, and maybe posting to the forums together. That's gotta happen sometime, and it may as well be now as we try and move into Recovery. Anyway I expect the photos thing to be a fairly obvious step we can both agree on when it comes out of an external, neutral source like this.

One thing that's nice - we have no mutual friends with the OM anymore. Every one of them dumped him after we exposed the affair. Even his best friend of 7 years... and that was based on the old, sugar coated version of events that had them just caught unawares by chemistry. If they knew that he had been hitting on her from the first... whooo boy. So yeah, there's no expectation of his name coming up anywhere again. It's still a trigger for her to see the people who WERE mutual friends of course, but I'm not sure what to do about that except give it time.

There should be no discussion of revisiting these pictures. Delete them for eternity. She should never see those again. Nor should you dangle a carrot in front of her, implying that the day may come when you'll give those back to her.
Flinging open the bathroom door during her morning constitutional is invading her privacy. I think the two of you need to redefine 'privacy' to understand the difference between that and 'secrecy'. Why do they not know this? They should know the whole story so they can protect their wives and family from him. I find it unlikely that he has been completely shunned. Keep an eye on that. If these people are triggering her, she should not see these people.

lostexpat, I can see what the basic problem is and why you haven't recovered. You have lowered the bar so low that your wife is just living down to your expectations. In order for a marriage to recover, extraordinary precautions must be put in place to prevent a repeat affair. In your case, the fact that she sees him on facebook keeps her in the fog. And the fact that she is not transparent with you, keeps you in a state of tension becaues you not protected.

She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe.

I would insist that she delete her facebook account and open up her life entirely to you. She should give you access to everything - that is not even negotiable. Her childhood problems have nothing to do with the present and are irrelevant. I would not save any pictures of the OM for the future so don't even say that.

Set her down and explain to her that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you won�t stay in a loveless marriage. Tell her you are willing to give her an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. end all contact with the OM for life - including deleting her facebook page

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. commit to a program of recovery that restores the romantic love in your marriage

Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now she has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.

This is putting the fox in charge of protecting the hen house.




This is wayward logic and manipulative. She is an adult now and honestly why would this require therapy. It is recommended for parents to snoop on their children to PROTECT them.

lostexpat, you need to be the strong one and take control. Don't be afraid of WW's anger...you will not recover this way.

Be strong, cool and confident.

I just love pokerface!!

Wow. Thanks.

lostexpat, your wife's thinking is cloudy enough; please don't do yourself the disservice of muddling things further by joining her in it.

Blaming her parents is silly. All this amounts to is ducking responsibility for her own choices & conduct. And remarkably, she's got you abetting her in ducking responsibility.

The problem at hand isn't that she's been denied adequate privacy during her life. The problem facing your marriage is that she's been doing things that she knew & knows are quite fully wrong, and thus feels a desire to conceal & keep them secret. As maritalbliss noted, "privacy" and "secrecy" are not the same things.

You cannot have "partial transparency," anymore than one can be "partially pregnant." Either she'll be completely transparent with her internet & phone habits & her associations, or she'll be continuing to hide things. Partial transparency won't allow you feel emotionally safe with her and won't allow the two of you to recover & improve your marriage.

And the photo files? If you were dealing with a cocaine addict, would you try to take away her stash by dangling out the hope of letting her have a snort later, after passage of time? Do you think that would help or hurt the process of breaking the addiction? It's the same deal here. You shouldn't dangle out the prospect of her getting her "fix" of OM later on. OM needs to be over & done. She needs to begin to accept that there's forever no going back, not to retard the beginning of that acceptance. Figuratively speaking, that chapter of her life needs to be closed, torn out & burned beyond any hope of subsequent reconstitution. Delete the photos of OM forthwith. Keep no copies in any format. This ought not to be negotiable.

Thanks to everyone for the replies!

I definitely take the advice on just deleting this portion of history for us, and not offering the carrot of another hit in the future. I love the way gloveoil put it, thinking about a cocaine addict.

But the privacy thing for her is more than just a duck. I'm sorry I can't go into detail here, but she is a child abuse victim. Not in an "oh woe is me" way - in a "hiding the bruises" way. The wrong approach to getting total transparency doesn't risk her anger. That would be fine. It risks her seriously hurting herself or worse. So aggressive demands at her privacy are not an option.

I DO believe that we need total transparency, but it cannot come from an aggressive demand, like the NC did. We all understand here that emotional needs are ranked for people, and meeting certain needs can be enormous for the right person. Love busters can work the same way. For this person, DEMANDS, specifically at her privacy, are explosively destructive. For example, she did give me complete access to her email, facebook, and phone. But there was a slow, long conversation to make that happen. Figuring out a real total access system has to be the same way.

BTW - I already have access to her phone passwords, email, facebook, phone bills... all of it. I'm not sure myself how to make the access more complete! Part of the reason we have to discuss is to find other ways to add transparency.

I'll talk to her tonight about blocking him from her facebook, and deleting the photos. I'll make those changes myself, a) so I know they're really done, and b) so she doesn't get the dopamine kick from seeing them "one last time".

In other news... When she finally came clean about the details, it plugged a huge hole in the account. We're both starting to feel the glow from deposits that stick, now. There are more love busters to find and root out, and we've only just begun identifying emotional needs, but it's wonderful to start having times where I feel connection to my partner again.

If you are accurate, then she is mentally unstable.
Please, do not have children with her.

If you find yourself in the situation of continually "walking on eggshells" around her, I recommend you buy a book.

The book is called Stop Walking on Eggshells *** LInk*** to Amazon site

She is mentally ill on the verge of suicide? If not, then she is wasting her time. Most people were "child abuse victims;" it has nothing to do with adulthood. Going back into her childhood is a waste of time and a distraction. It just brings problems of the past into the present.

Once again, extraordinary precautions are not negotiable. That is what is necessary to recover a marriage. And if you are serious about recovering your marriage, you will place the safety of your marriage above your fear of her anger. Remember, the goal here is to save your marriage, not to avoid her anger at any cost.

Your wife has remained in the fog by keeping her facebook account all this time. That is why your marriage has never recovered. You should make it clear this is a boundary of YOURS and insist she delete it. That is ridiculous to maintain such a reminder of the OM. Just delete the account entirely. Blocking him is a waste of time because it takes 2 seconds to unblock him. Just delete it.

Rather than make demands, just explain to her that these are your boundaries for personal protection. You have nothing to lose excpet a bad marriage.

I'm sorry to hear that, lostex, but that doesn't wash. I'm a child abuse victim as well. You don't even want to know some of the things that happened to me, but as an adult I've learned the importance of talking about those experiences. It would serve no purpose to t/j your thread with it, so suffice it to say that I'm am very candid about what happened to me and I don't keep it inside. Doing so is like a cancer.

What happened in my childhood, while horrible, is something I don't use to excuse my adult choices. Everyone has had something happen in their childhood that wasn't 'Ozzie and Harriet' material. As an adult, your WW needs to accept that she is a big girl who is capable of making big girl decisions. And when those decisions are bad ones, she needs to accept the responsibility or consequences, like a big girl. Childhood incidents don't relieve her from behaving like an adult.

Your WW also needs to learn that it is freeing to NOT keep secrets. It is freeing to be AN OPEN BOOK. It is imprisoning to carry secrets and harbor bad thoughts. She is not helping herself by doing so. My FWH embraces complete honesty and being open with me. He says it makes HIM feel good. It's a win/win.

He can unblocked in 2 seconds. And since she has been gawking at him on FB all this time, just being on FB is a trigger. Really, facebook is NOT worth it. Just delete it. Tell her this is your boundary. And stick to your boundary.

No one has ever died from not having a silly facebook account. It is not worth all this trouble.

QFT. I got rid of my FB account months ago. I haven't missed it for a second, and the world has continued spinning per schedule.

I just saw this. My FWH got rid of his car because it was the 'scene' of some of their dalliances. But even the fact that she was IN it was a trigger for me.

BTW - re "inviting the fox into the henhouse" - at some point you have to move into recovery as a team, BOTH working out your emotional needs and meeting each others'... building your recovery plan, reading "surviving an affair" and "his needs, her needs" together etc. So what was the threshold for all of you? When did saving your marriage go from something that one person did DESPITE the actions of their spouse, to something that two people did together?

My spouse has cut off contact, given me transparency, and has demonstrated a commitment to saving the marriage by trying to meet my emotional needs. She has said again and again that she's willing to do "whatever it takes" to save our marriage and build a passionate relationship again, and she has acted in a way that backs that up, responding to my every request about this. So I feel like we're at that threshold where we have to start doing this as a team. She still has bouts of depression, and still has times when she has to distract herself to keep from trying to contact the OM (she has a list of people to call, including me... and another list of things to do that she finds grounding and centering)... but the majority of the time she is visibly making an effort for the relationship. I really feel that she is on my team here.

When I wrote the original post, it was after one of the times where she was having a hard time "holding on" and not going for her fix. I felt like it would never be over. But the more I read and learn, the more it seems that most WSs have those sorts of addiction pangs on and off for months... so maybe it's just something we have to push through during the first months of recovery?

It became a joint effort once EPs were in place and the fog wore off.


She has not cut off contact and you have stated she cannot be transparent because she was abused as a poor child and is in "therapy." She has not really cut off contact if she sees the OM facebook. That is enough to keep her in the fog. If she is willing to do whatever it takes, then ask her to delete facebook and become completely transparent.


You are not at that threshhold if EPs are not being observed. Do a better job of implementing EPs so that the fog rolls away and THEN she will really be at the threshhold.


She is in a perpetual state of withdrawal and as such, perpetually compares YOU to the fogged out fantasy feelings she had with the OM. You can never win that way. Just looking at his picture brings her right back into the fog.

Is the OM married? And if so, does his wife know?