Part of the program is being radically honest.

Part of the program is to meet your spouses greatest emotional needs. So if he's being respectful in his requests, then it's up to you to figure out what would make you enthusiastic about sex.

That may mean trying some things, agreeing to certain behaviors to see if that helps.

Have you both done the questionnaires? There is an emotional needs questionnaire and a Love Busters questionnaire.

What are your top emotional needs? How is your husband doing on meeting those needs? What feedback or coaching can you give him so he can better meet your needs?

Ditto for his, what are his needs? What coaching or feedback do you need to ensure you are meeting his needs? This is all part of the program.

If there is nothing you could tell him that would make you enthusiastic about sex, then you are not ready for the program. That's essentially saying I refuse to meet your need. I'm not going to tell you what you have to do so I'm enthusiastic about it, so you have to do without. That is the net effect of not having a means to make this something about which you are enthusiastic.

You don't need to wait for your husband in order to work the program. Even if he doesn't want to do it, you can still work the program.

After all, what better way to convince him the program is worthwhile than to show how this program leads to him getting his top emotional needs met?

If you cannot tell him that he will get his need for sex met in the program, then why would he start something that will come across as let's use this program to fix my husband?

I predict that until there is some assurance that he'll get his needs met and this is not a fix my husband program, that he'll be unenthusiastic about it.

The best way to present the program is by providing him with first hand experience how using the program will result in him getting his needs met.

If you cannot say what that path is to him getting his needs met, then I doubt he'll enthusiastically sign up.

What that means is you may need to do the program alone, meeting his needs, eliminating your love busters, finding out how he would answer the questionnaires without presenting them as a program.

Then, when the marriage seems good to him, you may explain that it's because you've adopted these strategies and if he would like more of the same, then you invite him to adopt them as well so you too can benefit from a great marriage, full of romantic love.

But if there is no hope offered, especially tangible hope, then I doubt he'd engage in the program after having his needs go unmet for so long.

After all, there is no reason why UA time has to preclude meeting his needs. In fact, meeting your spouses needs is part of UA time. An hour a day of lovemaking would get you nearly half way to the maintenance requirement of UA. Not enough to rebuild, but it does get you to almost half of the minimum requirement.

Enlightened Ex - Thank you for your input, I do appreciate it.
To answer your questions:
No, we have not done any of the questionnaires yet.

My top needs from my reading so far are conversation and affection. My husband does a good job of meeting these needs except for the fact that I always feel that the affection is a prelude to sex and this makes me uncomfortable and stressed.

My husband's top needs (educated guess) would be sex and affection. I do not meet his needs at this time.

I think I do need to wait for him to read up and decide if he wants to do the program since he is very angry with me right now. Pushing forward with anything at this point will not be helpful.

As far as fixing him-I thought this was about fixing the marriage? I am the spouse that was going to leave, not him.
I think there is a good chance he will like this program, for the reason that MelodyLane stated-it is very logical-that will appeal to him. I need to wait for his response though.

I am a little confused-some other posters on this thread (Marcos, Prisca & MelodyLane) had suggested that working on the UA time to create Romantic Love would help me fall in love with my husband again and therefore would want to have sex with him.
You are suggesting I have sex with himm before that time? (I think?)I can't do that-that is the problem we are having-I cannot just have sex with him.
I apologize if I have misunderstood you or your suggestions.

Thanks

I don't share ML's assessment that he'll like the program if your presentation is that you give him some links and say read this.

It will likely come across as you are trying to fix him. I may be wrong, but hear me out.

His complaint is that he's not having sex. In fact, according to your account, he's asking in a respectful fashion and you admit you are not meeting his needs.

From that picture, painted by you, what is it he needs to fix? I'm not saying he doesn't, I'm saying from that picture you paint, what is it he needs to fix?

From his perspective, and this is speculation, so I reserve the right to be wrong, the problem is you don't want to have sex with him. Not only that, but you can't even tell him what it is that will make you want to have sex with him.

So now you are going to say, what do you think of this program. His first question, even if it doesn't come out of his mouth is how is this going to lead to sex?

If you cannot demonstrate how this will lead to sex in a fashion that convinces him that it will lead to sexual fulfillment in a manner he finds meets his needs, he will not be very enthusiastic about this program.

It's possible he may go along with it, but if he doesn't see sufficient progress in getting his needs met, it's unlikely he'll go very far in the program.

I'm not saying the program is bad. I'm cautioning that you need to be 100% clear that this is not about fixing him and it's about making the marriage better for him. It's about making it better for you too. However, since you say he's angry, and I'd say rightfully so since his needs are going unmet, he probably does not have the love bank balance to really care if your needs are met.

That's human nature. His emotional needs have gone unmet and it's going to be a hard sell if you open with how he has failed in meeting your needs.

You may need to go first. You may need to address your overdrawn love bank before you are in the position where he'll consider his withdrawals from the love bank as well.

I could be wrong. He may jump on board. In fact, I hope I am wrong. I simply want to caution you that you need to tread carefully as if your approach is not good, it will come across as you are trying to fix your husband.

And that will make it infinitely harder for him to want to do the program.

Enlightened Ex - I did just want to clarify that MelodyLane gave me the information about UA time being key to us both having Romantic Love for each other and that many men like Dr Harley's logical approach. That is all.

As for the rest - I don't know what to say. You may be right, I don't know. Thank you for your perspective.

My husband is angry because I just shared with him that I was going to leave the marriage, not because I am not meeting his needs.

I cannot "go first" as you suggest, because I cannot have sex with him. I cannot face the thought of sex every day-or even every week.

Thanks

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A warning to posters to help this poster with Marriage Builders concepts or refrain from posting. Do not disrupt this thread again!

**edit**

Of course she doesn't. She's not in love with him.

Of course she can't. A lot of women do not understand why they do not want to have sex with their husbands.

EE, did you even read the links that were given to her? They spell out very nicely how this program will help her husband get the sex he desires.

Raging .. Welcome to MB. Sorry you are here, however this is the best place for support in situations like this.

From what I understand .. your issues are related around sex and how you feel pressured to perform as often as your hubby wants.

I just wanted to let you know that my wife had said the same things to me that you say to your hubby. Just let this be known as a hubby whos wife said similar things .. the rejection hurts.

Many times I would have an angry outburst about my needs left unmet and this would feed my wifes aversion to sex with me. She desired sex .. JUST NOT WITH ME. She was unknowingly having an EA of sorts and this was causing a contrast effect that was working against me and my AOs and DJ's would push her further away and fuel her aversion of me.

Anyhow .. what I ended up seeing with MB was that I was infact meeting my wifes needs and making deposits but i was also withdrawing deposits from her love bank with my actions and responses to her not meeting my needs FASTER than i was depositing. So to correct this I did a STELLAR PLAN A. I met my wifes needs and dated her again without expecting my needs to be met and we began to spend time together reading the books after the kids went to bed outloud to eachother. This brought us close again and my wife began to feel safe and unpressured. It took a while (My taker would try and work its way out of me and occasionaly succeed and ruin my efforts and we would have a fight again and be back at day one) .. but it eventually worked .. especially after my wife seen MY changes and me being consistant and NOT love busting, then it finally kicked in, in her mind, that MB was actually working.

If you have an aversion to sex .. it can be fixed. But it will require some tender patience and love from your spouse and some positive encouragement from you that your feelings are coming back. But according to POJA .. you are not to force yourself into sex with your hubby other wise your aversion will get worse. However the subject should be discussed and a mutually agreeable solution should be found through safe negotiation.

Have you read the articles on sexual aversions?

Keep Posting! Marriage Builders can help you and your hubby! Maybe even get your hubby to start a thread so we can guide him how to better make love bank deposits for you! Both of you gotta clean up your own side of the street so to speak.

MNG

Edit to add this quote


And for this reason -- ^ your hubby should make a thread so we can help him too.

Your husband may be good at giving you the quality conversation and affection that you desire, but you are getting NOWHERE NEAR ENOUGH.

The UA time is really the key to being in love -- without those minimum hours alone together, it doesn't matter HOW good a conversationalist he is, or how good he is at affection.

You need TIME.

And if he really is good at these things, it won't take long before you start to feel head over heels for him. You've got to start spending the the TIME together. Once you have a full love bank, your desire for sex will follow.

When your husband calms down, invite him to create his own account here. There are many posters, including some men who've been in similar situations and not getting the SF they desire (Markos!), who can help him learn what to do to improve the situation. Melodylane is right -- men tend to love this program, because it is a very logically laid out plan of action.

QUoted for TRUTH! My wife and I were exact opposites .. i wanted it 10 times a day .. she wanted it 10 times a year. MB over time and following the principles here helped balance that out. My wife grew to love me more as i did my side of MB her aversion to me lifted when i was able to focus on loving her as she needed to be loved .. and as this aversion lifted my need for sex went from 10 times a day to 10 times a month. My wifes desire has increased as I love bust less .. and make deposits more. I hardly even have to ask .. it just happens! ALmost like the roles are reversing now that I dont feel so starved anymore lol ..

edit to add. I guess a few good questions are does she WANT to have a loving and mutually fulfilling marriage with her hubby and does she WANT to have romantic feelings for her hubby even tho she doesnt currently have them?

I understand the feeling that the affection feels like it's just a prelude to sex. If you haven't made love for a while, you're in a negative feedback loop where he's desiring it strongly and you feel that's all he wants. This loop has to be broken somehow.�

Do you know why you don't want to make love or why you aren't sexually attracted to your husband? If you can figure this out, you'll have something you can tell him (respectfully) that he can work on to help you gain that attraction.�

In your opening post you asked if you should do a Plan A. If you do, that would include meeting his top needs, and from what you've said, he's let you know that sexual fulfillment would deposit many love units. So, to do a Plan A, SF would be included. Try to honestly answer for yourself why you aren't willing.

However, you could also consider meeting his need in order to get things rolling. The UA time is explicitly for meeting these needs: recreational companionship (go out and do something both of you enjoy and have a little fun), intimate conversation (like talk about how you're enjoying what you're doing), affection (like hold hands while you're out), and sexual fulfillment (with all the stages).�

If you plan a date like this, and then more after that, you could both have the kind of marriage you want. Would you be willing to meet his need if you had a 3 or 4 hour fun date right before SF?

I'm with Enlightened_Ex, I thought I was helping per MB principles.

From what she's telling us, she should be madly in love with her H, and he should be the one ready to leave all per MB principles (I guess I missed the UA time).

I may have been harsh about it, but I was just looking to find out the rest of the story.

No, from what she's telling us, she has absolutely no reason whatsoever to feel in love with her husband.

They are spending ZERO UA time together. Without the UA, there is no hope for romantic love. Without a romantic relationship, she will not feel like sex with her husband.

This is not an unusual problem.

And, as Dr. Harley said in the quote above, the answer is NOT more sex. He recommends fixing the relationship first, and the sexual problems will typically fix themselves.

RC, your UA time is the key as Prisca suggested. You won't be in love no matter how well he meets your needs if you are not spending enough UA time together. Just ask yourself if you could be in love with someone with whom you spent 30 minutes of UA time per week? It is impossible.

The problem is that you have tried in the past to meet this need when you DID not have feelings and have created a SEXUAL AVERSION. It is so bad now that you want to get divorced. But this can be turned around if both you and your H get on board and follow this program.

I want to tell your husband that we can help him get the sex he wants in his marriage. And we can help you grow to be enthusiastic about it, RC. Men want an ENTHUSIASTIC partner, not a reluctant partner with a gun to her head. That is what we can help you achieve.

I would ask your husband to read this article and PLEASE assure him that we are on his side. We are on both your sides and will help you both get what you want and need in this marriage.

How to Overcome Sexual Aversion

The question of the ages: How can a husband receive the sex he needs in marriage?

From what she has told us, she can't possibly in love with him. And the proof is in the pudding. If she were in love, she would WANT to have sex with him.

Women need 2 things to desire sex: an emotional attachment and the prospect of enjoyment. She can't possibly have an emotional attachment if she spends no UA time with him. She doesn't want to have sex with him because she is not in love. The solution is for her to fall BACK in love.

Amen Mel ... how come it looks better when you type it? :P

I love that guy~!