What are you going to do if she has parents? She could have a mother like me who would run your [censored] off for trifling with my kid. Good grief, cant you get a woman your own age?

You have a daughter around that age, don't you? What would you do if she came home with some middle aged geezer?

Why is it the honorable thing to do? What were the circumstances where you got her number?

You're a married man who is old enough to be her father. This is a bad mix from the get-go.
Edit: I apologize. You are divorced now. What you do as a single man is your choice. I am concerned about the age difference.

Does she think you have lots of money and will become her sugar daddy?

This screams of a vulnerable man not sure what direction he wants head.

I am not sure she is a good fit for you or your kiddos.

Hi MJ, it's good to see you post again here, but not under the circumstances of having to announce that your W pushed the D to finality. I am very sorry that your efforts didn't work out.

In addition to seeking support in Divorce Care, have you considered posting on the Divorded/Divorcing forum for additional support? Also am wondering if you have considered volunteering to fill in some of your spare time. Maybe you do this already. If you find somethng that really turns you on in terms of volunteer activity, it's not only very rewarding, but you can meet some very nice dedicated people and develop friendships along lines of mutural interest.

I have to say MJ that I do want to make a recommendation regarding dating at this point. You can certainly put this under the category of "it's easy for you to say", but I would hope that if I were in your specific situation that I would put every bit of energy I had into securing a job and getting a little further down the road from the date of the divorce. I know that I would not be emotioanlly ready for a new relationship right away. I cannot recall what your field is MJ, but I would even serisouly consider additional courses and/or training to increase my marketabliity and future income potential. I recently had breakfast with a good friend of mine who is close to my age (later 60s) and his job at one of the major corps here was eliminated a few months ago. He has a solid background in accounting and pension admn., but the careers that we had when we worked together for many years several years ago - pension, compensation, and human resources in general - have pretty much faded away. That's why I made a career change to tax accounting back in the late 90s. He's going to enroll in a certified state and local tax specialist program, and is trying to talk me into doing same. My last grad course in tax accounting was back in 98, and am not at all sure I have the gumption to get back in that grind again but I am considering. Sometimes it takes another person's example to urge me on. These are just some thoughts.

MJ, regarding your 'problem' regarding the young woman you met - I have to agree with Marital and the others here - not worth pursuing. Just me personally, the age difference would bother me, and also I wouldn't feel ready to pursue anything like it until I had my career and financial footing back. Again, this is probably an "easy thing for me to say" thing, but just wanted to relate these things to you.

Best of luck to you MJ and I hope that you are your daughters are able to have a great Christmas.

Tom

Tom2010 writes,


Great minds think alike! While I don't have a problem with our age difference, I am in no financial position to start dating, let alone a spiritual or emotional one. My position remains the same: Give WW till November 2010, two years after I started Plan B.

Thanks for reading my posts. It's good to hear from you all. When I met this young woman, I thought, man oh man, she's beautiful, why not go out with her? Then I reflect on the matter, talk with friends and the vets, and find that it's too early for me to go out with anyone.

Hope you are well, Tom. Thanks for reading my posts. I will pray tonight for you and yours.


---------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 41 (and jobless, again)
Her: WW, 34
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD4 and DD2.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B & D since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
D is final: 10/14/11
The state no longer recognizes my marriage; the Church and I still do

I have a problem with you dating some one way to young for you.

I have a problem with this 23 yo's judgement because she thinks it's ok to date her dad.

I have a problem with you plan B'ing your WW. She divorced you. Plan B is over as far as a tool to get her back. Odds are WW won't come back. However to heal I would continue to NC your WW so you will heal.

I have a problem that at your age you have never heard that someone is not ready to date until one year has gone by so they have had the time needed to mourn the loss of the old relationship.

Evidently the child you want to date sadly is just as uneducated to this fact as well. Which shows she is not dating material.

MJ,

I can see the temptation, but this is a bad choice. Stick with women in their 30s, who are awesome and have maturity.

23 is too young. Stay away. Very tempting. I can understand the attraction, but that's a moth to a flame.

That can be nothing but heartache and/or pure sex.

You're still too wounded and not at all ready for a relationship.

I can also say, with confidence, that a woman that young will have many more choices without the baggage of you with two kids.

Just don't even bother.

The Road and help,

I agree with you. She's too young. Also, I'm too attached to the possibility of reconciliation with WW.

I won't speak with the young chickadee. I want to, but shouldn't. Wisdom beats feelings, right?

---------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 41 (and jobless, again)
Her: WW, 34
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD4.5 and DD3.0)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B & D since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
D is final: 10/14/11
The state no longer recognizes my marriage; the Church and I still do

mj,

I wish you well but the "young chickadee" contm is beneath you and also heer. she is not a young 'chikjadee" she is probably a yourng womman looking to nmake best of her iife.

anyway I wish you well for new year. I can apprecaited why you would hang eon to the thought of your and wife reconcidling but at this time it soesn;t seem psossible Anything can halpppen MJ but it will take her to realie who she has lost. In meantime I wisghe you a very hapy new yeaf and hopefuly good things in terms of your own likfe.

am now preparting for new yurs ever here son and his lady are coming over and sice it is warmer here now ofr december am going to krill shripm tomorrow. right now eneed to rest.

Take care

Tom

tom2010,

You make a good point about the young woman.

As for my WW, she's lost a good man and the father of her two beautiful daughters; that's what she has lost. When our girls were very young, I got up every morning after coming home from work at 3:30 a.m. to wake up the girls, dress them, and put them in the car to day care; and I took her to the airport when I was in Plan A. The OM can't even be bothered to take them to the airport; or that's what DD4.5 said last week. Eventually reality will prevail, as Dr. H told me on his radio show. I just need to get a good job and climb out of this lower ring of purgatory.

---------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 41 (and jobless, again)
Her: WW, 34
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD4.5 and DD3.0)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B & D since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
D is final: 10/14/11
The state no longer recognizes my marriage; the Church and I still do

A friend mentioned "Send in the Clowns" on his Facebook page last night. He intended the reference to be derogatory, but I remember the song as not only pretty, but also sad and poignant.

The incident caused me to read the lyrics online and listen to the song again. Could it apply to my marital situation? Sure enough, it does.

Please see the lyrics below and listen to Sinatra's version of the song. Perhaps some of you have heard this song or songs like it and felt the same?




---------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 41 (and jobless, again)
Her: WW, 34
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD4.5 and DD3.0)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B & D since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
D is final: 10/14/11
The state no longer recognizes my marriage; the Church and I still do

Hello MJ, and Happy New Year!

I have heard that song much as we have a Sinatra CD with it as one of the songs. Just me, but I never have liked it because it is too melancholy.

Anyway, MJ, I would like to offer you a few suggestions at this point. The first is I think it would be good for you to begin posting on the Divorced/Divorcing forum. I believe I suggested this before. It doesn't look like you're getting much advice here from the vets, other than that regarding the young woman you met, and I feel you would get more input and have more of a connection with those who are trying to recover from a divorce as well. I realize you still consider yourself married based on your faith, and I respect that, but it appears that in her mind she is gone now. The second is to do the best you can to get a new job/career. When my job was eliminated '95 I was told by a friend that your job now is to get a new job/career and work at it 40+ hours a week at least. Final thing is take care of yourself emotionally, physically, and spiritually. In the last couple of years I've found Mary to be a comfort to me in terms of starting with firsr Saturday devotions. Believe it or not, way back when I was in the seminary I had the attitute that Mary was a 'usurper' in a way, and that reference to her should be minimized because reference to her detracted from God. Far from the truth now. If you do start a devotion to her tho please expect that she will be sort of a nag in terms of a Mother's love guiding her child. I guess an additional suggestion is have you considered obtaining a cat or dog as a pet - new family menmber. I know they are not inexpensive with vet fees and all even from a shelter, but just a suggestion. I have two cats - got a dog awhile back but it didnt work out - and I have to ssy MJ that I love teasing them in the evening to relax and they make me laugh so much. They are left with me since Char had to go to the nursing home. We've had at least one cat since we were dating and we lived together in an apt. in Madison for a couple of months before we were married - and he lived for 17 years and we've had about six others since including these two.

Well long-winded but what the hey, I just want you to be well.


Tom

Good thought, Tom. MichaelJan, it would be a good idea for you to start posting on the Divorced forum. There's a lot of good support there. Start a new thread to let everyone know where you are now, and link your story. I'm sure the moderators can help you with that if you're not sure how to link your thread.

tom2010 and maritalbliss,

Thanks for the suggestion about moving over to the divorced forum. But it's not just my faith that tells me not to move on. Dr. H. has too.

Dr. H said to wait till this fall for WW's A to end. That will be two full years since I began Plan B. (Dr. H has said this to me on his radio show twice, in the fall of 2010 and last fall).

If I understand you correctly, you suggest I stop Plan B. Is that correct?

Thanks, Tom, for the suggestion about getting a pet. I would get one, and like cats and dogs, but my landlord doesn't allow pets.

I agree with you about getting a new job. I'm on it.

---------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 41 (and jobless, again)
Her: WW, 34
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD4.5 and DD3.0)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B & D since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
D is final: 10/14/11
The state no longer recognizes my marriage; the Church and I still do

I'm not suggesting anything about your personal goals - my thought was that you might be able to contribute to the posters who are going through divorce on that forum.

After two years time frame doc H gave is based that on his experience planB isn't going to work.

So even though spouses have recovered after two years and or getting divorced a BS should not be holding their breath.

Thing is you should plan B her for life. You said you wanted her to be your wife not friend. That if she wanted to divorce that you would not be her friend and NC WW. That she could not have OM and you.

Does doc H say you are/can have contact with WW now?

TheRoad,

We agree. In the fall of 2010, Dr. H advised me that for two years I should plan B WW AND not date another woman. Don't contact WW and don't date; that was his advice.

He has advised not contacting WW unless it's an emergency. In other words, Dr. H. didn't deviate from his advice to everyone.

---------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 41 (and jobless, again)
Her: WW, 34
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD4.5 and DD3.0)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B & D since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
D is final: 10/14/11
The state no longer recognizes my marriage; the Church and I still do

Plan B doesn't need to end after 2 years, I think what ends is that you can start looking at dating others, and if you haven't already become D, you should think about it. That being said, I am in longer than 2 years, and not quite ready to D, but my Plan B has an end date, and that is when my WH has NC for LIFE with OW. Even after a D, I wouldn't communicate with WH directly.

Ditto.