My eldest daughter said today that she did not agree that her father had changed - she is of the opinion that he was always like this - ie a heartless, selfish, jerk - but he just hid it well. Our son firmly believes that he has completely lost his mind, that nothing else could explain his abandonment and subsequent behavior. Once again my seven year old accused me of yelling at her when I wasn't even reprimanding her - just like my H accuses me of being angry with him when in reality he is angry at me. My seven year old has always been prone to blaming someone else, but I never thought of it as really abnormal since she is just a child. What if the mental illness that he is suffering from is hereditary - what if they both suffer from an inability to accept guilt, so they have to find a scrapegoat?

Hi Nellie,<P>Yes, mental illness, depression and a whole host of other conditions are passed on through normal heredity.<P>I know my wife's depression is something she got from her mother's side. Her mom is a very good and reasonable woman who got treatment, but my wife will not. She thinks that depression carries with it a very bad stigma.<P>Your kids are mostly young. Teach them values... in time they may need professionals to get involved too! but when they're very young (but not dangerous to others)... love them... teach them by good example and love, love, love them!<P>You and only you can teach them right from wrong... the schools won't, their friends can't, your church doesn't have the resources! You are why God put you there... It is a tough job...<P>I only have three to bring up... one with ADD. I'm not sure how much of my W's condition will reflect in my kids. I just do my best... and leave the rest to God.<P>I'll pray for you.<P>Jim<BR>------------------<BR>I can dare myself... I'll put a pebble in my shoe...<BR>I can walk... I can walk! I shall call the pebble Dare...<BR>Dare shall be carried... And when we both have had enough<BR>I will take him from my shoe, singing... "Meet your new road!"...<BR>Finally glad... Finally glad... That you are here... By my side...

Nellie - There really is no such thing as "mental illness." This is a lable laid on us by the psychiatric community in this country as a means of social control. Usually it is laid on as a way of making someone who is very (maybe legitimately) upset about something in their life behave. Nothing more. Read Theodore Szatz's book, "The Myth of Mental Illness" to learn more about this labeling tactic. In the meantime, resist thinking in these terms about your beautiful children. Regards and blessings,<P>--Wex

hi...<BR>wex rang a bell with that book he suggested, but i thought the name of the author was different. indeed, i checked on amazon, and it is thomas szasz. fascinating theory, indeed. i am also remembering a guy who says that the more we lie, the further we are from mental health. david viscott, i think...lemme look into it now....

I'm really torn on this one. I mentioned this to Steve Harley too, as I couldn't understand my husband's dramatic changes. But Steve said no, if it really is mental illness, it would affect all areas of life. Instead he went on about how men can compartmentalize their lives differently than women, behave badly yet not let it affect them. How nice.<P>Now, playing the other side a little, over time I have come to accept that part of what I am seeing is a logical extension of what I was seeing (does that make sense). In other words, there were some distressing signs about his personality and character before. There is a big difference now though. First, obviously, is this horrible situation, much worse than anything we ever dealt with together. Second, and not so obvious but now clear to me, is he's now operating on his own, WITHOUT ME. Before, I protected, I defended, I influenced, in other words, I helped him be a better person. On his own without me, he's a lousy person. Maybe he always was but I covered it up when we were together.<P>I think the areas you're describing are TRAITS, not illnesses. Unfortunately, your daughter may have picked up this unfortunate trait from your husband. It seems to me that it's a trait based on insecurity. Perhaps she's in need of some esteem-building development before this becomes permanent.<P>I wish you much luck. All of this becomes ten times harder when we're dealing with problems among the children.

Distressed,<BR>But in my H's case, it does affect all areas of his life. I think it is affecting his work, he has lost interest in all of the hobbies that gave him pleasure. I think this characteristic in my daughter has always been there - I saw it when she was barely two. I suspect it is some how linked to her excessive sense of responsibility - how many kids on their first day of preschool would think to ask if their parent knew how to get there, and did they bring a map. Certainly all my other kids just assumed that the adults would take care of all the details. <P>If you think your H's behavior reflects a character trait, as is not merely a temporary aberration, I don't understand why you are waiting.<P>Wexwill and love WAS blind,<BR>Are you saying that that author claims there is no mental illness? Is there some other way to explain the actions of the apparently loving father in a neighboring town who killed his children and then killed his wife by hitting her with an ax? Or the father who killed his wife ostensibly over an argument about a burnt dinner, removed her heart and staked it in the backyard? <P>NSR,<BR>I think my seven year old would be diagnosed as ADD if she were in school. I read somewhere that 60% of children of divorce have resulting serious psychological problems, but that it is more common in more emotional children - this was hardly comforting.

Nellie,<P>I truly beleive that my H's affair is actually a symptom of his depression which had been building for a couple of years. In hindsight, there were lots of little signs;<BR>irritability, sleeplessness, compulsive/obsessive behaviour, feelings of worthlessness & failure, just to name a few. He was very vulnerable and needy, OW sensed this, and moved in like a vulture going in for the kill.<P>His mental state right now is so bad, that I think he is incapable of rational thought. Many times he has told me that "he is so confused". He is also extremely compulsive, paranoid and unpredictable. Plan B has actually made him worse. I really think that Plan B is designed for someone who is somewhat rational.<P>So, my goal right now is to get him some professional help. I think he knows there is something wrong with him because he is aggreeable to seeing a doctor. If this approach doesn't work, then at least, I will feel like I have exhausted every avenue.<P>If our marriage doesn't work out, then I will have fewer regrets. I tried.

Mental illness is alive and well, but we are not psychologists and therefore should not be making diagnosis. Besides there are a whole set of problems from the traditional personality - corresponding dysfunction approach to cognitive dissidence to who knows what wacky theory they are trying next.<P>I would suggest getting to a child psychologist with your 7 year old. He is obviously suffering because of this, and may just be following patterns he learned from your H. Alternatively, (and I think more likely), he may be casting blame at you to avoid feeling guilty for causing the separation. That sounds strange but all children that age go through a period where they feel responsible for the divorce. Since he watched your H blame you, he may just be trying that tactic himself. In either case it requires a lot of patients and understanding, and he is too young for you to explain what's going on to him in a satisfactory way.<BR>

sidney,<BR>Unfortunately my H has convinced himself that he was depressed because of me. Our first therapist tried to get him to get individual counseling, but he refused.<BR>nonplused,<BR>I don't really think my seven year old is blaming me for the separation. The only good thing about the suddenness of his abandonment and subsequent speedy introduction of them to his OW is that all the children blame him, and consequently not themselves. Some of them think he is crazy; others think it is a character flaw.

<BR>I had to smile when I read this:<P>Unfortunately my H has convinced himself that he was depressed because of me.<P>In my case, my W has convinced herself that I was depressed because of her.<P><sigh><P>Slightly Sane<BR>

yeah, nellie, weird, i know, but i think szasz's premise is that all "mental illness" is behavior based on situational factors.<BR>just a theory....

I really beg to differ concerning the previous statement that was made:<P>"Mental illness is alive and well, but we are not psychologists and therefore should not be<BR>making diagnosis."<P>No, we aren't psychologists, but most doctors miss 7 out of 10 cases of depression in men and 5 out of 10 in women. Sometimes, it takes family members or friends who know the person well to recognize the signs. Usually the person with depression is so entrenched in it, or has had it for so long, they cannot reach out for help themselves. Also, there is something called "smiling depression" in which the person can mask the symptoms in the presence of medical people. <P>This is an insidious illness, and by it's very nature, very difficult to diagnose. No, we cannot make the diagnosis which could result in getting treatment, but we sure can try to get the person to see a doctor if we suspect such a problem. <P>

sidney,<BR>I agree completely. I wouldn't necessarily make the final diagnosis of an ear infection either, but I certainly have brought children to the doctor many times on the basis of my tentative diagnosis, and I have almost always been correct. And depression isn't nearly so obvious in a 10 minute office visit.<P>o2bsane,<BR>I really don't believe that one person can "cause" another's depression - well maybe if they keep them locked up in a closet.<P>love WAS blind,<P>An interesting theory - it certainly would put a lot of shrinks out of business.