Susie, your husband has made a decision. You are the only one who is confused here. He has chosen BOTH of you. And he will live with both of you happily, as long as it suits him. Until he can replace you. I am sure there is a plan to do that right now.

And the nice thing about it is that he has already introduced the children to your replacement. That will make the transistion much easier for him and his girlfriend.

Your "exposure" was worthless. All you did was endorse the affair so others are just following your suit. You endorsed the affair to your family and your children.

What I am trying to point out is that your husband has no motivation to end his affair. Why would he do that? He doesn't have to. You have absolutely no boundaries and will tolerate his abuse. Be assured he has made his decision. He has chosen to use you both until it is no longer convenient for him. Once he figures out to get rid of you, he will do it.

That is a distraction. While your marriage crumbles, the affair grows stronger, and the risk that the OW will get pregnant grows. And what are you doing? Nothing. Sitting in a counseling office talking instead of taking action.

"Talking about your marriage" while your husband is in an affair is like yapping about the peeling paint in the girls bathroom on the sinking Titanic. The peeling paint is a distraction. And that is what you are doing.

What will you do if the counselor tells your H to pursue his "heart?" Or to separate? ["trial separation"] Then you are doubly screwed because he will have "professional" validation for his destructive behavior.

Sus....

Here's the problem.
You cannot work on the marriage problems (pertinent stuff) as long as there is an active affair.
It's like your house is on fire, and you are trying to repair the damaged floor as flames surround you. You must extinguish the fire (affair) before attempting repairs.

You sound like a 'trust but verify' person and I am ok with that! That is an MB motto

Since you are in the UK - time is short so, I have a virtual hug for you......

(((((((((((((((((((((Susie)))))))))))))))))))))))

and two jobs for tonight:

1) Grab a bite (are you eating young lady?)
2) Sleep and that right quick ( As well as you are able) If not, lie there and rest.

Tomorrow, assuming you are free - some light reading

Read Dr H's infidelity links at the top of the page. Pep's Carrot and Stick of Plan A (click the link in her sig) Read Never Take The word of a Wayward Thread. Read Dr H's material on exposure to children over the age of four.


But if you are anything like me youll spend the whole night on the internet!

Exposure 101, including advice regarding children is in Melody Lane's signature - all in the one place so you dont have to go scouring around the site......

I'm exhausted! Just been looking for indiegirls Wayward thread. Can't find it. Have been looking in PB's notable threads and also ml's 101 but will look through these more tomorrow.

I'm fine on eating and sleeping. Well, pretty much fine, anyway! thanks for the hug IG!

I do not believe H is seeing OW. You may not believe that. His pattern is to conceal not to lie. I believe he has answered my questions about contact truthfully. I am aware that he will not volunteer any information.

Heading to bed now. Thanks again.

Excuse me while I

Good lord, Susie. What will it take to make you stand up and do SOMETHING to end this affair.

More talking???

I went back and can't seem to find how long this A has been going on for though it sounds like a while. When did this A start and when was your DDAY?

They are just still texting each other, she still goes to his church and he told you flat out he can't tell her it's over.

You are in the BS FOG. WAKE UP!!!!

Have you checked to see if OW is on FB?

Have you ever confronted her? If so, what did you say?

I remember believing that too. My h hid stuff, sure but never lied outright. Except that he did. All waywards do. They graduate on to it even if they have never done it before to keep hold of the addiction.

And hiding stuff IS lying!

Trust but verify. If you can verify by yourself, independently that he is not seeing her, great.

But do not take the word of a wayward EVER.

I would use voice activated recorders in the house and car, spyware on his phone, and on computer. Get a PI if necessary. Use the MC money. I have a feeling you will feel differently about the MC pretty soon, because you are listening. You are listening cautiously but you are listening.

I actually only needed old fashioned methods like hunting through pockets and reading his texts though. It was that obvious. Methods that could have turned up the A two years earlier if I had trusted but verified instead of blindly trusting.

You already told us they were in contact via email, phone. So yes, the affair is ongoing. And he can tell you what he chooses. You won't know any better. He knows you won't do anything about it.

How is that you have allowed your children to be dragged into his affair? I thought you were serious earlier when you said you were concerned for their welfare? How does that show "concern?" How does it show "concern" when you won't defend their family from their father and his skank?

You are normalizing this situation for your children.

You are teaching them terrible lessons. Because believe me- they know more about what is going on than you are telling them- and what they don't know- they will fill in the blanks and blame themselves.

if you won't stand up for yourself- stand up for your children. Stop this nonsense. You cannot talk your way out of this, or intellectualize , or be sweet enough to him to fix it .

You can change the game. You can. Right now.

Your children are learning terrible things about relationships- FROM YOU.

Your choices will impact their life decisions.

If you won't do it for you- do it for them.

LISTEN TO WHAT THE MB PEOPLE TELL U DON'T BELIEVE WHAT HE SAYS AND DO EVERYTHING THEY TELL YOU TO I WISH I HAD SOONER. I WANTED TO BELIEVE MY WH AND HE IS STILL LYING

Sus, are you still with us?

It was also really nice of you to accept so much of the blame when you told family.

That really deluted the message. Your husband didn't have to be embarressed by the affair, because YOU told everyone that he had a good reason -- a crappy marriage.

Susie -- you need to start thinking about what a contributing role you play in this marriage falling apart. You are not doing yourself or your husband any favors by enabling and assisting.

You have angry outbursts? I find that hard to believe.
You come across as very passive.

Hi again.

The children got to know OW before I knew about the affair. I messed things up at the beginning in how I handled things but they now have no contact.

I went to MC today with H. It was helpful and H was talking far more about how things could be solved/worked on. There is a way to go.

The things that have helped me most from this thread are a greater understanding of:
- the fogginess that surrounds a WS to do with the A (and yes, the BS too).
- the fact that exposure does not have to mean public, just to the people that matter
- the fact that exposure is to help end the A not just to make me feel better (I would have handled that wrongly if I had done it before now)
- the idea that exposure gives me a chance of controlling something that could well anyway come out in a way that was not helpful for me

My current plan is to contact all of the people who know currently about the A and get them to simultaneously deluge H with letters/emails about the fact that an A is sordid and awful and that he owes it to himself, me and the children to break off all contact and work on the marriage. This will be combined with:
- exposure to a key person at work
- exposure to another key relation of mine whose opinion he values
- exposure to OW's supervisor to ask him to try to persuade her to leave the area (there are good reasons why this might work)

I am delaying because I am hoping desperately to get some kind of access to OW's family in order to contact them too. I have spent hours trawling information on the Internet but as I have very little to go on, including names and addresses (not even sure of the state as she's moved around) it is hard to do. Her FB account is well secured. I do not have the password to H's account. I do know someone who is a F of hers on FB who might help - but he is on holiday at the moment and as he is directly under my H at work he may not agree to do it, although I am thinking of exposing to him on his return from holiday.

I am passive. I am reactive rather than proactive. Rather than being able to put my points clearly and without anger, when challenged in person I react, defensively and at times angrily. This has been a problem in the marriage and one that I am addressing. I have also realised that as a reactive person I am easily persuaded by someone whose opinion I value. My opinion of the marriage has been largely based in the moment on how H is feeling - when he sees hope, I see hope. When he sees gaps (and they are there, I have just got used to ignoring them) I see gaps. In the last few days I have realised that I need only hold firm to my 'default' position, which I return to each time, even if it takes time, that I want this marriage to work and I will work at it until it is absolutely clear that it cannot.

One question:

Does everyone believe that any marriage can work (assuming no abusive behaviours, or anything else in the 'when to get out' list)? That if you are satisfying each other's EN's it must work and that any A's are to do purely with weakness in the WS?

Or are there any marriages that really were not right and never going to be right? That satisfying each other's EN requires so much effort that goes against one's personality that it becomes a constant and ultimately pointless struggle? and equally, are there any marriages that are really so right because the partners match and complement each other in so many ways that EN's are satisfied relatively easily and with only occasional tweaking?

This is an honest question and one that I wrestle with. After all, there are people on the site whose marriages have broken down, despite MB's. Do they think that even MB could not have saved their marriage, and all it did was allow them the best possible chance to try everything before the marriage broke down?

Susie --

If you are reactive, then Marriage Builders could be a really valuable tool -- because it takes emotion out of the equation.
There is no more wishy-washy.

You work on YOUR PLAN. It simply does not matter what your Wayward Husband says or does. You complete the tasks that go with your plan. If he tries to tell you that this is your fault, you just go into "ignore" mode, and keep working on your plan.

Honestly, your WH probably enjoys that he can "talk' you right out of your positions because it makes you easy to manipulate.

Susie, marriage counseling is absolutely WORTHLESS when your husband has the "love of his life" waiting on the sidelines.

It is horrifying that your children "adore" the other woman and don't realize that she is an ENEMY to their safety. Their whole lives could be cut in half because she is in the picture. They will have half the stability, half the resources, and half the time with their parents. Your children are not too young to understand how wrong this is. Aren't they being taught the 10 commandments???