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Hi,

I have been lurking for the last week and have finally decided to join the community.

Dday was 12/22/2011. Let's just say, this was not a happy Christmas. From the moment I discovered, WH came clean and admitted to the evidence I found of an EA as well as an additional one of which I was unaware of at the time of confrontation.

Since DDay, he has done everything I have asked regarding transparency, setting up counseling, cutting off contact with OW and giving me all the details as to put a wall between the AP's and a window between us. He has been extremely remorseful and contiously asks me what I need and what he can do, as he is committed to our marriage and will do whatever it takes.

WH claims he compartmentalized these indescretions and feels no withdrawl from the AP's. He claims they were "projects" and not women he had any feelings for. He said it's been very easy for him to let go because there was no actual feelings for these women. While I feel in my gut, my heart and my head he is telling the truth- reading over literature tells me I am giving him too much of the benefit of the doubt. That at this point if the affairs have truly ended, he should be going through some kind of withdrawl. Is this correct? I would appreciate any insight. Thank you.


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My FWW's "withdrawal" from her EA AP lasted (at most) about twelve hours. When the light came on for her about the depth of her betrayal, and the pain she had inflicted on a person who she had built a life with for over 30 years, she "snapped to" with the speed of light.

Watch your FWH, but don't LOOK FOR problems to the extent that you CAUSE problems.

If he's fully on-board with MB practices, and is actively attending to your injuries, he might be honest in his statements.

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Thank you, I appreciate your response.

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I encourage you to read the book Surviving an Affair. I purchased my copy on Amazon with rush shipping, you can also buy it from this website or at a bookstore.
Your husband probably has poor boundaries. A good book to read after the first book above is His Needs, Her Needs Building n Affair Proof Marriage.

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Re-reading your post...

he compartmentalized these indescretions...and feels no withdrawal from the AP's...claims they were "projects" and not women he had any feelings for....very easy for him to let go...no actual feelings for these women

... brought another thought regarding how "cold-blooded" WH's actions were. Having the ability to treat a human as a lab-project in an emotional "petri dish" is not a very attractive quality in a person. Is this something he exhibits generally?

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I have not been able to post any updates as I have very limited internet access, but I wanted to pop in and post where we are at.

As I stated previously, I found out about 2 EA's on the 1st Dday. One truly was just an EA, as it literally began the DAY I found out- therefore there was no room for it to progress. In fact, the conversation was so brief, I'm sure the OW assumed he was just reaching out as they had not spoken in years. I wouldn't even qualify this as an EA, short of the fact I knew what his intentions were by reaching out to her on that day. The longterm EA I discovered has been going on for almost 9 months, but progressed to a PA in late November.

As of last Wednesday, I was able to contact the spouse of the affair partner. After exstensive investigation, we came to the conclusion it was most certainly a SA.

I confronted WS again that evening and he came clean. The first night I got just bits and pieces of info, but over the last several days we have talked about everything in explicit detail. He started No Contact on December 27th per my request. I have been able to confirm through text/phone/email records that he has had no contact with the OW as he states. He is VERY remorseful and is doing everything he should be doing right now.

We were also able to have a very open and honest conversation about the "why's". Things I never knew about my WS or fully understood are now out in the open. It was very refeshing to "lift the lid", so to speak. We are waiting on a bonus check to come in in a week and will be using that money for counseling to deeper explore this in individual counseling as well as working on our marriage in couples counseling.

I have been reading "Not Just Friends" for the past few days and will be purchasing "Surviving An Affair" with my next paycheck on the 15th. After reading "Not Just Friends", he fits the exact description of an "entitled philanderer". I'm scared. I want to save my marriage but this book gave me the impression that what I'm dealing with is rarely a saved marriage. Has anyone here had experience with this?

Thank you for your support.

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@NeverGuessed: No, actually. I was pretty stunned to hear this.

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Originally Posted by coldhands611
We were also able to have a very open and honest conversation about the "why's". Things I never knew about my WS or fully understood are now out in the open. It was very refeshing to "lift the lid", so to speak. We are waiting on a bonus check to come in in a week and will be using that money for counseling to deeper explore this in individual counseling as well as working on our marriage in couples counseling.

Hi coldhands, you did a great job in getting your information and exposing this to the OWH! That is a sure fire affair killer.

I would strongly caution you about going into marriage counseling, though. Traditional marriage counseling is destructive to marriages. They have an 84% failure rate and have a higher personal divorce rate than the general population. They have NO IDEA how to save marriages after an affair. We see the fallout from their bad advice on this forum every month.

Marriage Builders is completely different from traditional marriage counseling in that it has a PLAN to restore the romantic love in your marriage. Dr Harley specializes in saving marriages from infidelity and has a completely different program than other counselors. You can implement his program in its entirety out of his books if you are very methodical and disciplined. If you are not, they do offer counseling or their online program. Many of us went through the online program and have fantastic marriages today. It is pricey [$1000] but they assign you a marriage coach and you have daily access to Dr Harley. They guide you through the lessons every week and then test you to see if you understand the program.

Not just friends is a good book but it has no plan for recovery. The books that you would need to implement recovery are: Surviving an Affair, Lovebusters and Five Steps to Romantic Love. Those can be purchased here or you can buy them used on Amazon.

And lastly, individual counseling will be a distraction from the real problems. I would keep the focus on your marriage for now and forgo the IC.

What it takes to recover a marriage is to

a) remove the conditions that led to the affair, ie: if he maintains opposite sex friendships, he would need to eliminate those. If he has a facebook page, he should just delete it. Develop complete transparency by giving you passwords to everything. Delete all methods of communication between he and the OW, ie: change email addresses, phone #s, etc

b) create a romantic relationship using this program

Those are the steps to recovery. I will post a letter by Dr Harley that outlines all these steps.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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How Dr. Harley Learned to Save Marriages



And here he describes the specific steps to recover your marriage:
Originally Posted by Dr Harley
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.

Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be
your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place.

Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by coldhands611
WH claims he compartmentalized these indescretions and feels no withdrawl from the AP's. He claims they were "projects" and not women he had any feelings for. He said it's been very easy for him to let go because there was no actual feelings for these women. While I feel in my gut, my heart and my head he is telling the truth- reading over literature tells me I am giving him too much of the benefit of the doubt. That at this point if the affairs have truly ended, he should be going through some kind of withdrawl. Is this correct?

This struck me what I envision both my wife and her OM felt as their relationship went on and on. Ive asked her many occcasions just how is it after so long together she basically has nothing for him at all. I tell her its almost hard to believe that they can be that close and when its over, its over. Again, none of this makes my wife look good as, at least in my case, she stayed as his girlfriend to avoid getting a real job and for the pittance of money she made as his employee. Unfortunately (and fortunately) my wife's A had the looks of prostitute/john relationship, at least for the last portion of their time together. She has used those exact words to describe it too.

I say fortunately because had there been a "love" between them existing upon dday, Id be divorced today. She said that she used him as much as he used her. Not pretty.

So, I do believe in the compartmentalism of emotion of an affair. I recently wrote of a hardness of my wife that has eroded in the last 8 months. This has been the best thing to come of this episode in our lives.

The question remains for you and I is can we live with someone who can separate normal human feelings and enter AND STAY in a relationship without remorse and admittedly without feelings for that person?

Working on it.


Life keeps on slipping, slipping, slipping into the fuuuu-ture.
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@MelodyLane: When you said

"And lastly, individual counseling will be a distraction from the real problems. I would keep the focus on your marriage for now and forgo the IC."

you shocked me! I assumed the real problems needed to be handled in IC and our marriage through MC.

You see, we've only been married for 6 months. This has apparently been an ongoing pattern throughout his entire life with many different relationships. One would think he needs to control his additction/boundary issues individually while working on the marriage together.

Forgive me for being naive, but what am I missing?

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@MelodyLane- Forgive me, I just read your next post regarding the plan to survive infidelity. I see what you are saying now. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by coldhands611
You see, we've only been married for 6 months.

YIKES !!!

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Originally Posted by coldhands611
You see, we've only been married for 6 months. This has apparently been an ongoing pattern throughout his entire life with many different relationships. One would think he needs to control his additction/boundary issues individually while working on the marriage together.

What about this marriage do you think there is to save? Did your relationship start as an affair? How many times has he been married?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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We've been together for 7 years, however only married for 6 months. I believe there is a lot to save.

Our relationship did not start out as an affair and he has never been married before.

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Originally Posted by coldhands611
I have been reading "Not Just Friends" for the past few days and will be purchasing "Surviving An Affair" with my next paycheck on the 15th. After reading "Not Just Friends", he fits the exact description of an "entitled philanderer". I'm scared. I want to save my marriage but this book gave me the impression that what I'm dealing with is rarely a saved marriage. Has anyone here had experience with this?

You should be wary. I'm not so sure that you being "scared" will help you much.
Being scared can impede your thought processes.
Caution is definitely called for. redflag

What I wonder is this .... YOU are buying books to read in order to learn how to "fix" what WH has broken.
What, if any, books has WH purchased ON HIS OWN in order to "fix" himself?
Is WH doing anything without your direction/encouragement/prodding/coaxing?

My sense is this. If you must persuade WH to take action, he's really just the entitled philanderer you fear he could be.

He cannot be trusted.
Can you live with that?

PS
His philandering has ZERO to do with your behavior as a girlfriend/wife.
You cannot "become a better wife" to a philanderer with hopes he will see the error of his ways and change directions.

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Originally Posted by coldhands611
We've been together for 7 years, however only married for 6 months. I believe there is a lot to save.
.

What exactly would that be? He has cheated the entire time. You know he is a serial cheater. Are you under the impression you can change him?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I walked out last night. I had to drive around our town for 5 hours just to blow off steam. Something exploded in me yesterday. I literally haven't shed a tear, I haven't yelled/kicked/screamed. I haven't done anything emotionally. I have been a robot. It hit me like a tidal wave. I felt the need to vomit, scream, cry and fight all in one moment. So, I left. I drove and I drove and I thought hard about my life and what I want out of it.

I am very true to my committments. I follow rules. Ever see "The Big Lebowski"? Know the part where Walter loses his cool because Smokey stepped over the line? He pulls out his gun and screams "Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a sh*t about the rules?". We have a running joke with friends that I am Walter in that moment. Short of the fact that I love this man with every fiber of my being- I struggle with picking up and leaving for good/throwing in the towel because I feel as though I chose this, I need to fix it. I made the choice to marry this man and I need to do whatever it takes to protect and nourish and grow this marriage.

@Pepperband- Thank you for that eye opener. He hasn't done anything on his own accord. It's all been what I have asked to be done. Here I was giving him props for doing the things I asked when what I was really doing is accepting a tiny shred of what I deserve. And I also appreciate the PS. I am having a very hard time struggling with just that.

@MelodyLane- I thought about your question of what exactly there IS to save all day/night yesterday. My first inclination was to respond with "We chose each other for life, before God. He is caring, kind, sensitive, loving. We see the world the same and we have a very deep and fullfilling connection. We are a team and have each others backs through thick and thin. We hold true the same spiritual beliefs, we want the same things, we laugh, we dance, we play, we're partners. We have a rich and beautiful history. He is my soulmate." Then, it dawned on me for the first time to ask myself this... Are these things I had myself believe about him, or is this really him? At the very least, someone who fits the above description would be fighting for our marriage as if his life depended on it. As I said above to Pepperband, he is not doing anything short of what I have asked him to do. While he is very remorseful and I can tell he is trying, I needed to WAKE THE H*LL UP and SEE that I am accepting morsels right now. I have been grasping on to anything I can because I want to save this marriage so badly. Why? Because of what I wrote above. But now that I have myself questioning these things, it's hard to take a stance one way or another.



Last edited by coldhands611; 01/11/12 11:28 AM.
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Originally Posted by coldhands611
But now that I have myself questioning these things, it's hard to take a stance one way or another.

coldhands, I am glad to see you questioning this. None of that has any worth when it is poisoned by adultery. Adultery is the ultimate poisoned apple that makes marriage intolerable. It is the ultimate lovebuster and marriage killer. All of the feelings you have today will be dead soon enough unless and until he makes radical changes in his lifestyle because his behavior will destroy the love in your marriage.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by coldhands611
WH claims he compartmentalized these indescretions and feels no withdrawl from the AP's. He claims they were "projects" and not women he had any feelings for.


The question is: Were YOU also a project that he has no feelings for? Think about this one: The anonymous skanks weren't betrayed...you were.

Unfortunately, you can't take his word for it because he is a liar.

What are your options? Write them down.


Divorced
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