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You're prob right. Like I said, I don't even know if putting it on 'paper' was going to come out right. I think I need more sleep. Full time teaching and then picking up a job as a personal trainer and then blogging for money...plus coaching. And working on my masters degree and training for the 10 mile obstacle course race challenge in Texas come April...I'm exhausted.

But getting in our 15 hours of UA time smile Who needs sleep when you have love. laugh


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Originally Posted By: kilted_thrower
You're prob right. Like I said, I don't even know if putting it on 'paper' was going to come out right. I think I need more sleep. Full time teaching and then picking up a job as a personal trainer and then blogging for money...plus coaching. And working on my masters degree and training for the 10 mile obstacle course race challenge in Texas come April...I'm exhausted.

But getting in our 15 hours of UA time smile Who needs sleep when you have love. laugh


rotflmao

No, I think I know what you mean. Of course, the choice is mine! And I do not feel controlled when my H insists I do not cross his boundaries when it comes to drinking. He is just saying I won't tolerate it. But again, i am controlled my choices. And if I make the choice to drink, he has the choice to send me packing! laugh


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Thanks for all of your comments - I have a lot to re-read and think through.

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Hopeisnotenough:

I have not read everything on this thread, but I recommend that you read "Married to a Spendthrift" in my book, "Love Busters" (pp 214-218). There are many similarities. The solution to Joe and Shirley's problem was for Shirley to admit that she was addicted to shopping. Once that was revealed, she was willing to follow a program of recovery that prevented her from having access to family funds. He even worked out a legal arrangement where if she were to slip, he would not be responsible for her bills (it's not mentioned in the book, and not possible in some states). I treated it like being married to a drug addict. Granted, Shirley cooperated with the plan, which made it possible. If she had not been willing to cooperate, their marriage would probably have ended in divorce. Shirley's violations of the policy of radical honesty and the policy of joint agreement made their marriage insufferable for Joe. Read over that illustration and get back to me through our radio show. Write us at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com.

Best wishes,
Dr. Harley

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Quote:
Perhaps you're right, and I'm the bad guy and the abuser here. If you can read this thread and think that I've "cared so little" for HTC over the past two years, then I doubt I can say anything that will change your mind. Mea culpa. I don't want to be an abuser any more, and that's why I'm ending the marriage. We both deserve better.

Yes, you do both deserve better. But ending your marriage is not necessarily the answer. You both have very destructive habits that have been eating away at your marriage all these years. Dr. Harley's program can help both of you change those habits and have a wonderful marriage that fulfills.

I suggest you follow through with Dr. Harley's advice above. He doesn't post that often on these boards, and it's unusual for him to extend a personal invite here.

This isn't a hopeless situation.


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What to do with an Angry Husband

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Quote:
Since it seems like I'm breaking an unwritten rule here, I'll stop posting in this thread.

You're not being singled out for "breaking an unwritten rule," btw. Every newcomer is asked to create their own thread when they arrive -- even I was, over a year ago two years ago. smile

Last edited by Prisca; 01/04/12 11:29 AM. Reason: markos corrected my math

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Thank you so much for weighing in, Dr. Harley!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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banghead I gave away my last copy of Lovebusters!!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: HopeIsNotEnough
If someone else thinks these issues are important enough for their own thread, they should feel free to start one, and maybe I'll chime in again. But I'm not interested in starting that conversation.

Since it seems like I'm breaking an unwritten rule here, I'll stop posting in this thread.
Emphasis mine.


Hi HopeIsNotEnough,

I for one think these issues are important enough so I've started the conversation but because you stated you were not posting on this thread, I can't ask for permission to quote you on it. I hope it's OK.

Best regards to you both,
Ace


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A follow-up question: What should the betraying spouse do when the other spouse has already made huge sacrifices? That's basically what has gone on in our marriage - DH made huge sacrifices (some of which were out of financial necessity) and as you can see, it's greatly affected his thinking and the way he looks at our marriage.

I personally completely understand why sacrifice creates problems when you are starting from scratch (if nothing else, it is kind of in my own self-interest to agree with this, so I don't feel entirely comfortable with this). But what about our situation, where one spouse has already taken on what feels like a huge burden and feels that the other spouse should reciprocate to make things even or as a way of making amends for both the horrible behavior that created the problem in the first place, or to make amends for the sacrifices that the other spouse has already made?

I think that things feel uneven to DH, and that makes him feel terribly unhappy.

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Originally Posted By: hopestochange

I think that things feel uneven to DH, and that makes him feel terribly unhappy.


That is a wise question. The first thing you both do is stop sacrificing. STOP digging a hole. It created resentment for your husband and it will create resentment for you. Digging another hole will not make this better and it will not resolve his resentment. But, there is something that will make his resentment fade and that is to have a happy, safe marriage. You can give each other that if you both stop your lovebusters.

A better way is to give him just compensation. That is how you make amends. And by that, I mean you do things that will be GOOD for your marriage and make both of you happy and safe. That does not include suffering and pennance. It is critical that you both understand this. That will not help your marriage.

The way you make amends is to stop your spending addiction and stop lying. The first step comes from admitting you have an addiction and thereafter setting up your life in a way that will make it impossible for you to spend. Did you read the chapter Dr Harley outlined in his post to your husband? I haven't read it yet, because I gave away my last copy of Lovebusters. [I have ordered another one]

Dr Harley summarizes the concept of just compensation right here: Can't We Just Forgive and Forget?

Did your husband read Dr. Harley's post to him?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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You have a spending addiction, don't you?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I have a copy of Lovebusters on hold and if work settles down enough I can pick it up today - so I haven't read it yet but would really like to (I'm actually going to check if they have it at a different store that I might actually be able to get to!).

I think that I definitely have major problems dealing with money. Oddly I didn't have them for most of our marriage - it was really something that developed in the past four years. I don't like admitting that I'm powerless over it, but I would have to say that I was addicted to debting (spending money I didn't have). Right now things are set up so that I can't overspend. That may change in the near future, because things seem so uncertain now. I have actually sporadically attended debtor's anonymous meetings and should probably get back into doing that more rigorously. I guess I associate "spending addiction" with someone spending all kinds of money on clothes and shoes, which isn't me, but I handled my money just as badly so long story YES (see the justificiation I can engage in!)

DH did read Dr. Harley's post. He (DH) urged me to write Dr. Harley, feeling that the invitation was directed at us both. DH hasn't replied to the other thread - he felt chased out of here by some of the comments (specifically Prsica's, and I would just note that schoolbus also left the thread shortly after Prisca chimed in). He also has a lot of other personal stuff going on that has just come up.

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I use a metaphor when thinking about ways to nurture my husband. I think of him like a plant and I'm the water he needs to feel nourished. What small things can you do today to show kindness and care for this man, who looks totally exhausted, discouraged and out of gas?

Perhaps you don't need to do major stuff today to make amends. No need to stay up until 3 am every night to clean the house top to bottom (that sounded a little martyr-y to me, by the way). Clean a little, make home a cozy place to be and offer some reassuring touch.

Get back to your addiction group and do what you can make home an oasis for the both of you to rest and heal.

Water that plant!!

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: hopestochange

I think that things feel uneven to DH, and that makes him feel terribly unhappy.


That is a wise question. The first thing you both do is stop sacrificing. STOP digging a hole. It created resentment for your husband and it will create resentment for you. Digging another hole will not make this better and it will not resolve his resentment. But, there is something that will make his resentment fade and that is to have a happy, safe marriage. You can give each other that if you both stop your lovebusters.

A better way is to give him just compensation. That is how you make amends. And by that, I mean you do things that will be GOOD for your marriage and make both of you happy and safe. That does not include suffering and pennance. It is critical that you both understand this. That will not help your marriage.


Great post, especially the bolded.

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Originally Posted By: hopestochange
DH did read Dr. Harley's post. He (DH) urged me to write Dr. Harley, feeling that the invitation was directed at us both.


I think it be a great idea for you to accept that invitation. It sounds like your husband is enthusiastic about that!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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**edit**

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Originally Posted By: hopestochange
I think that I definitely have major problems dealing with money. Oddly I didn't have them for most of our marriage - it was really something that developed in the past four years. I don't like admitting that I'm powerless over it, but I would have to say that I was addicted to debting (spending money I didn't have).


That is a spending addiction. Going into debt is the result. You have a spending addiction, don't you? You "handled money badly" because you were spending compulsively.

Quote:
DH did read Dr. Harley's post. He (DH) urged me to write Dr. Harley, feeling that the invitation was directed at us both. DH hasn't replied to the other thread - he felt chased out of here by some of the comments (specifically Prsica's, and I would just note that schoolbus also left the thread shortly after Prisca chimed in). He also has a lot of other personal stuff going on that has just come up.


I agree you should contact Dr Harley, however, Prisca didn't chase Schoolbus off and she didn't chase off your husband. While SB was trying to be helpful, the focus was never on the necessary steps to save your marriage. I personally became alarmed when I saw that these steps weren't even being discussed because that is the solution to your problem. The steps that Prisca and I have been proposing are from Dr Harley. Both Prisca and I have been through the MB program. Dr H knows how to save marriages, Schoolbus does not.

I fully understand your husband's frustration, but he needs to also understand that a) WE ARE ON HIS SIDE!! and b) he is making some serious strategic mistakes that are doomed to failure. He has certain goals in his marriage and his strategy has not worked and will not work! We are trying to help him see this so he will adopt a more EFFECTIVE strategy. He has tried and tried to resolve this while enduring horrendous behavior for a long time. We are just trying to point out that there is a better way. There are no guarantees, but Dr Harley is pretty smart and he has saved thousands of marriages.

What we want is for your poor husband to have some PEACE and protection from your destructive behavior and for you BOTH to have a happy, romantic, passionate marriage. That is the GOAL.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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