Typically...people are more self interested/concerned. Perhaps his concern here is not so much YOUR "prison sentence" but rather his "prison guard duties".

Your "plan" includes giving him open access to monitor your activities and right now, this early out, to him that sounds like he, should he choose to recover, will be in charge of daily/weekly monitoring your emails, chats, cell phone, mail, etc forever. He [rightfully] feels that doesn't resemble a marriage he desires where HE is in charge of monitoring YOUR fidelity.

Again...he's right, but only because he's misinterpreting "the plan" you've presented.

MB concepts and "extraordinary precautions" you mentioned in your letter are NOT prison terms. You aren't "surrendering" to conquering forces. This isn't "reconstruction". The precautions and MB Plan are the result of the research Dr. Harley did when answering the questions...."How do some couples succeed at long term marriage?". They are the practices and habits of successful couples. They are the what he, you, me and my wife should have been doing all along.

I don't "monitor", per se, my wife now. I COULD if I wanted to and I do perhaps log into her email from time to time where years ago I wouldn't have....but that's not MONITORING her but rather as a good practice [there's not supposed to be privacy in marriage...who knew???] I don't feel insecure at all in our relationship and I don't feel it's a prison. Actually...it was more like a prison BEFORE 2005 when we were both unhappy. Being in love with your spouse (and them you) is liberating.

Mr. Wondering (got a phone call in the middle of this so I kind of lost my momentum)


p.s. - Wanted to mention...this principles, practice and "precautions" are reciprocal. It is no more a "prison" for you than it is for him. You BOTH undertake to protect the marriage and these precautions you listed go both ways. He's not to have opposite sex friends/relationships either....he's not to chat with old flames on facebook or even be friends with them (if he keeps facebook at all). You guys are only just a little over age 30....it's not to late for your relationship and your kids will certainly be better off with you two together than apart. Most likely he will too (not necessarily though).

As to what you should tell the kids, of course make no promises about the M or R.

Let them know that you know you messed up big-time, and because you choose to never allow that to happen again, you are implementing a plan to protect your family, and your own heart from being vulnerable.

They don't necessarily need to know every aspect of the plan, but I would tell them many of your EP's. At their age, they are beginning to think thoughts of relationships and romance, so it can be a good teachable moment to direct their minds to proper boundaries with the opposite sex.

Then, as you model good behavior for them, they will have a better chance to set their own boundaries well.

MW,

Everthing you are saying makes perfect sense and I agree. Right now my husbands thoughts are that "it is his turn to be selfish". I know that right now he is reacting to the intense pain that I caused him. I truly feel that he does not know how to deal with the pain that I have caused him. I am trying to help him but don't know how.

Would it be good to send him your post from above or is that not a good idea. I have continued to encourage him to get on the website/forum but I am afraid if I push too hard, I will just push him away.

Print out a few things you like and leave them next to the toilet. You are right to feel the need to caution yourself against pushing.

I don't know. I'd wait a day or two and try to accumulate a few things to say rather than persistent comments. You want the most bang for your buck each time you contact/bother him as you don't know how many opportunities remain (he may cut you off at any time).

My guess is he's already reading along and he'll see my post. You told him about MB and the forum so natural human curiosity will bring him here to read whether he tells you or not.

Back in 2005 I didn't post for help. I posted to others supporting them but not at all about our situation. I sat back and watched happily as the MB posters pushed and prodded my wife as she pull herself out of the fog. They said to her as neutral third parties what I didn't know should be said and things I couldn't say. I didn't have to be the bad guy...rather I was her sounding board as she managed her way through her own help threads and along the path to FWW.

That's not to say that he shouldn't post here. He should. He needs help making an important life decision too. Many of us have been where he is...unsure about which direction to go. I'm very glad I choose to reconcile with my wife....but that doesn't mean it's always the right thing to do. Some guys just can't, no matter how hard they try and some wayward wives, no matter what they say...just can't follow through. Waywardism isn't cured simply by "no contact"...it's an ingrained way of life that needs to be unlearned and cast aside ....a complete change...repentance. It takes at least one full year to get most of the way there***

***with that in mind...both you and your husband, should he be reading and/or get on board need to realize you will make mistakes. Entitlement and selfishness will still rear up in you from time to time as you learn to control and harness your over indulgent taker. This is not an overnight program. Learning takes time. Implementing new behaviors takes time and it takes time for these new learned behaviors to take root and become your new habits and new thought processes (feelings follow actions). Patience.

Mr. Wondering

Watch the movie Fireproof with him

Ironically, a friend at work just gave me that movie. I will try to get him to watch it with me.

Mel,

You said If she and her H will counsel with the Harley's great. BUT, while she wrote down a plan, she clearly didn't fully understand what it means and what she needs to know, or the "news" she mentioned would not have bothered her so.

Her H told her what was really bothering him, and she needs to figure out how to express and show her husband the things that will eventually calm the waters and allow her to grow and learn in this marriage. I have no doubt that any of the Harley's can show her how to do this, but she still needs to step back and focus more on her H and what he is saying. He is giving her valuable information. She should use it with her plan. She must learn to see things from her H's perspective or she has no chance of changing her perspective and influencing his.

15 did you think about what I said?

God Bless,

JL

fifteenyears, I would go listen to Dr Harley's radio show from yesterday. [it will replay until noon cst today and then you can find it in archives] The caller is a WW whose H has left her because of her affair. Her H is now having an affair but Dr Harley tells her how to approach her H by giving him assurances [through actions] that this won't happen again.

Go click on the radio link and select rebroadcast. After noon today, go to archives and pull up the 1-12 radio show and listen to it. It is very informative.

JL,

Your member name is a perfect representation of me right now because I am "just learning" how to change who I am. I am reading everything you said to me. I even printed it up and highlighted the parts that stood out to me (can't do all the fancy stuff that you guys do on here yet). I am taking in EVERYTHING my husband says and does and trying to reflect on it. Every time I see him, I tell him and try to show him how sorry I am.


The biggest things you said that I have really been thinking about are that "he worries that he is not enough for me" and that I "need to start to express your goals and dreams in ways that address his fears."

The problem is that I don't see him everyday. There are so many things I want to share with him and tell him but I feel like that would be too much and scare him away. And if there is one thing that I have learned from this site, actions are much more powerful than words. How do I show him that he is good enough, my goals and dreams? How can I address his fears when he is too scared to be with me right now?


I think the news that I got the other day bothered me so much because my husband is reacting out of his fear and anger from the situation. I completely understand and honestly, I would be doing the same thing. In fact, when I truly try to put myself in his shoes, it makes me feel sick! The biggest question he keeps asking is "WHY". My reasons why are not what he wants to hear right now. He feels so betrayed by me, as he should.

One thing that have already started to change about myself is how I speak and act towards my husband and my children. What I am still struggling with is HOW I can show him my plan of action when I do not see him every day? How can I convince him that this plan is not a prison sentence for either of us?

Yesterday, he came over to spend time with our kids. I coach cheer leading and had to go up to a basketball game. I told him I was leaving around 3, and if he didn't want to see me he could come over after that. He showed up at 2:30. We talked and laughed and he reached out for my hand. I reached out for his and we hugged.

He then proceeded to tell me how sorry he was. Why is he apologizing to me? I hugged him very tight and told him that he had "NOTHING" to be sorry for that I was the one who was sorry and it hurt me to see him in so much pain. I asked him what I could do to help with the pain and he did not say anything. I then told him that no matter what I am here for him and I want to help him and stand by him no matter what he decides. It was a wonderful moment but I was left feeling like I did not do enough.

I am just so confused with how he is feeling and I believe he is as well. Everyone on this site has been so helpful but I feel very confused as to how to approach my husband; what is too far, how to show him that I love him and want to protect him forever, how to help him with his pain even though I am the source of it.

The three biggest emotions that he has shown me this week are Anger, confusion, and pain.

Anger - he said that I was selfish and now it was his turn to be selfish. Yelling at me about the situation that we are in and the choices that he is making now are because of me (I just apologized and agreed with him because he is right).

Confusion - One moment he will not talk to me and the next moment he is holding my hand, hugging me and telling me how sorry he is. One moment he is cold and the next moment he is winking at me.

Pain - Trying to cut me out of his life. Thinking that by divorcing me, getting rid of my email on his phone, and not talking to me that the pain will go away. How can I be transparent for him, if he will not even let me in?

Some of the very small steps that I have already taken are 1. keeping my house very clean (big pet peeve of his) I believe that this would be one of his top ENs. Before he left, we did fill out the EN in the book of SAA. He did not write this one down but I think that is because he didn't realize what Domestic Contribution was. 2. Being patient and understanding with everything he says and realizing that this is not about me, but about him. 3. Continuing to answer his questions honestly. 4. Not asking him for anything, letting him have his time away to think. 5. Telling him about MB, the site and forum on a regular basis. 6. Working on Joint Resolution on very small things right now, like what we should tell our kids and who gets the kids on what days.

JL, I am looking at everything everyone says and applying it to my life in every situation. I am 33 years old, it is time to grow up and stop being naive. It is time for me to put my needs aside and look at what my family really needs. I have figured myself out and what I need to do for me, but I just don't know what to do for my husband.

I know you say to listen to what he is saying and try to apply it to every moment I have with him. Right now that is what I am doing even though the moments are far and few between. One day at at time has become my new favorite motto.

I will definitely listen to it. I downloaded the MB app on my phone.

Something you need to understand, from the betrayed's viewpoint. OK? This is intended to help you change your course. Not to admonish you.

When I was freshly betrayed, my husband's continual 'sorry' was very annoying. To say the least. I did not trust his 'sorry'. It felt disingenuous. In my mind I was thinking:

"Yeah. You're sorry alright. Sorry you got caught. Sorry you can't pretend it did not happen."

You get the idea, right?

Instead of "Every time" telling him how 'sorry' you are .... SHOW him how changed you are.

Your 'sorry' over & over is worth less than a plug nickel. It has little, if any, lasting value. (as far as your H is concerned)

Demonstrate how much you have changed.

You are allowed to say "I am so sorry" ..... but understand it is not enough. Do not stop there.

Continue to say "I will do whatever it takes for as long as it takes to make this right."

And, every day ask: "Is there anything I can do for you today?"

When the betrayed spouse is on MB and asking "Why?" .... It is clear that there is really no truly satisfactory answer to this question.

When you are asked, perhaps the following will help you respond.

"I took baby steps to hell."

Please take a look at this link:

*** Anatomy of Adultery How It Starts ***

Where YOU will have a particular problem is when he asks:

"Why again?"

You need to admit that you did not learn the lessons about boundaries and protection the first time.

I hope this is enough.

I think this is very hopeful !!!

He is conflicted.
Which is a good thing.
Being in conflict means he feels an attachment to you.
What you do not want is indifference.

We don't call this a roller coaster ride because the name sounds cute!
The emotional roller coaster is up and down at break-neck speeds.
"I hate you" to "I love you" in the blink of an eye.

I think it helps if you understand that this is part of the process.
Don't get spooked by it.

Fasten your seatbelt.

One of the great big beautiful things wayward spouses can take from the MB forum is, you get the POV (point of view) from the betrayed's perspective and you can use that POV to help your situation !

15 .... You are already in. You are his first thought in the morning and you are his last thought before he falls asleep You are in his dreams.
You are IN all the time.

BH is trying to force you 'out'. You are not out. You are in.

Do what we advise without measuring BH's response.

Trust me.
You are 'in' way more than you realize.

15Y, Pep makes a very good point about the developments you're seeing as being POSITIVE, not NEGATIVE, in this stage of your BH's shock recovery.

Let me reduce this to the minimum. You've stated he is exhibiting anger, confusion, and pain. Would you prefer you see withdrawal, isolation, and - God forbid! - substitution, in his coping strategies?

As brutally as he's been hit, he is still bringing his wounds to YOU, the one who inflicted them. (Not to "pile on" right now, but he's showing more restraint than I would have, given the complete story. You're a VERY lucky woman.)

Be consistent in your progress. Ignore the "highs" and "lows", and stay focused on the long term. Every day that passes provides you another day of change, and him another day of healing.

Thanks PB! It is good to get straight up and honest advice from someone on the other end of it.

You're welcome.

I am motivated to reach out to you for several reasons.
Not the least of these is .......

NG,

Thank you for your insight. I am in no way complaining about his changes, just observing. As part of my recovery, I am taking it one day at at time and feel lucky to get a chance just to talk to him, "high" or "low". I am in this for the very long haul, no matter what it takes and what they end result it.

15,

Pep has given you great advice. Listen to her. Also realize that anger is a secondary emotion driven by: fear, pain, anxiety, frustration, etc. So you are seeing manifestations of what he told you, just expressed differently from time to time as his ride on the roller coaster takes him up and down.

I fully agree with the "I'm sorry" statement. Try humor, try care, try to let him know that you KNOW what you want and it is him.

As for why? Well, I liked Pep's answer. Another would be pure and simple selfishness. Another is assumptions: you assumed several things (you would not get caught) (you could talk yourself out of it) (your rationalization that it would NOT hurt him too much or he did not care) Any or all of these could be the reason, but selfishness is clearly a big reason.

I would expand on what Pep has also said, by saying you should never lie to him. But, by the same token try to enjoy your time around him as well. Meet his needs or if you are unsure about his needs try reading the needs articles here and then His Needs Her Needs, you will get a better idea of how to address his needs.

The thing you need to fear is withdrawal and indifference. There is a famous saying that goes

There is hope for your situation. It will take time, focus, and lots of patience but he is still interacting with you and showing you care. That is good.

God Bless,

JL