Thanks for the advice. I am not going back into this blind and will not compete with an OW. I want our marriage to work but not until he is ready and committed.

15,

You of all people know how addictive an affair can be. Be aware that your H will and must go through a withdrawal phase and even if he is not in contact, he will be moping around. If he seems very happy, then watch out. He is getting his fix.

Mr.W's admonition to be wary is very much spot on. You cannot demand anything (not because you don't deserve to) because a good relationship is not full of demands. He must make his decisions and you must make yours.

You have done well so far. Keep growing and learning, talk with him about what I posted and remember if you feel relieved by his honesty how he will feel as you are fully honest with him and that includes your feels. He cannot fix your feelings, but he needs to know what you are dealing with.

Please, please don't try to guilt him into something. Just reach out and touch him, let him know he can talk to you about anything including his feelings for OW. This will be tough for you, but as he opens up he will see who really has his back.

Hang in there you are doing well. Have confidence in that at least.

God Bless,

JL

Everyone, I just want to thank you again for your advice, honesty, help, perspective, and everything you have done to not only get me through this but make me truly see who I am and what I want to become.

Without going into to many details because if you can't already tell, I am a little wordy at times, I know for a fact that my H's OW is out of the picture. This however does not mean that I will not continue to snoop or turn a blind eye to anything that seems out of the ordinary.

As far as him wanting space, I have come to figure out that he is just not quite ready to jump right back into our marriage. Now, I know that sounds fishy but let me just tell you what the last three days together have been like.

First of all, we have spent A LOT of time together. So even though he has not moved back in, we are spending quality time together. We have talked honestly about all of the A's and have asked each other a lot of questions about why they happened, what was wrong with our marriage etc...

We have honestly (play on words) been more honest with each other and had the best conversations with each other than in the past few days than we have in our entire marriage.

I have come to discover that my two most EN's are conversation and honesty. Two things that my husband was not giving me during out marriage. Yes, we talked but we never really talked about how we were truly feeling. I have come to discover that I NEED this more than anything in my marriage and have shared this with my husband.

Now when my husband ask for space, I believe he is really asking to take things very slow. Which I am trying to do although it is hard because I like to "fix" problems quickly. Unfortunately I know that there is no quick fix. He is still very scared to give me his heart and is still dealing with the thought that I could do this again.

I know deep down in my heart that I will NEVER do this again. Why? Because I have learned from this site the EP's that I HAVE to follow to stay out of trouble. I have done some really deep digging to discover who I am and why I made the mistakes I made. I am not pushing this mistake under a carpet and forgetting the pain that it has caused to so many people.

Most of all, even though it did not deserve it, I got a dose of my own medicine. Let me tell you, it does not taste good. The pain of being betrayed because of my betrayal is some of the worst pain I have ever felt in my life. It is just as bad as having someone close to you die. To know that I inflicted this pain on my husband twice because of my own selfishness, hurts the worst.

I have told him this but again, he is going to have to see it in me, through me. I tried to push him at the beginning and it sent him running in the other direction. I don't want to guilt him, I don't want to push him, I just want to be here for him.

I will continue to use your advice and guidance to help me be the best me I can be (I'm a poet).

Thank you again and continue to guide and pray for me.

Fifteen

Does not sound fishy to me at all, under the circumstances.

Stay focused.
You are still "in", yanno?

Suggestion:
Start wearing your husband's shirts around the house.
That really helped me stay emotionally connected to my H when we were not together.

This is where I went wrong. I forgot the pain it caused us and got wrapped up in ME! Thanks JL for pointers that I lost.

15,
Thanks for posting on my thread. You are really going through a rough time. I am praying for you both.

senninpaswife,

You are more than welcome. I truly hope it helps both of you.

God Bless,

JL

Alright, I am coming to the experts again for advice on my recent situation with my BS. Everything is moving very fast but also very slow and my emotions are so conflicted. I need help and want to make sure I am doing the right thing.

I have finished SAA and have taken A LOT of notes. Dr. and Joyce Harley sent me Love Busters and I just got it today. I am going to begin reading it tonight. So I am on board to recovery, my husband however is still reluctant.

I am going to give you guys some very personal info but I think you need it to completely understand my situation and give me the best advice. So here goes...


Last week my husband and I started having sex again. It has been amazing for both of us. we even spent the weekend together with our kids. Even though he seemed a little cold this past weekend, I was excited that he decided to hang with us.

On Sunday I tried to talk to him about coming back home and he got real uncomfortable and said he still did not know what he wanted and he has to know for sure before he makes any decisions. He also said that I was being pushy and it made him uncomfortable.

This week we started sexting each other and he started to smile and laugh with me again. It feels great but then he leaves and I feel sad.

A part of me understands how he is feeling and know I have to be patient and continue to work on myself and my flaws. Another part of me however feels like he is trying to have his cake and eat it too...let me explain!!!

I feel like he is living the single independent life (no kids, no wife, no curfew, no responsibilities) but then he can come to me whenever he wants to get the EN's he needs. I am afraid that he will get used to this and never want to come home. Am I being ridiculous? Am I being selfish?

Don't get me wrong, we have come a long way in just a couple of weeks, but I just don't know how long I can emotionally do this. He has the peace of mind that I am at home each night with the kids while I am left wondering. He broke my trust with his own affair and even though I know without a doubt that the OW is gone, I still hate that he is not in bed with me at night.

I guess I am just looking for a timeline if there is one. I don't want to be pushy but know that in order to revive our marriage, we need to start recovery. We have already taken a few baby steps but I just feel like we can't really start until my H is back under our roof.

Let me know what you think.

Still riding the roller coaster!!

I think the problem is just as Dr Harley said it was, that he is scared to death of you. He doesn't WANT to feel in love with you and is scared to take the next step.

I would not push him. Rather, I would counsel with Steve Harley and let Steve sell him on a plan and show him that it will be different this time.

You don't have to push him, 15yrs, you have time to make this work.

If he is not PROVABLY in NC, and verifiably accounted for at all times (e.g. staying with your father or his pastor at night if he's not ready to come home), assume the A is ongoing.

Even allowing for the BS element, this behavior smells like a rotting mackerel.

During Plan A, you can verbally express your boundaries, though not sticking to them yet. "Honey, I know I have hurt you, and I apologize for my part in this. I want to be in a M where we love each other, and where we both sleep in the same bed."

Also keep snooping. If there's something to find, you want to be sure to find it. DO NOT let him know what you're doing. Keep all sources secret. If you find something, come on here before confronting.

Because of your own A, I recommend a slightly longer Plan A if possible, more toward the 6-week side of the 3-6 weeks Dr. H advises. You need more time to show your changes are genuine, if you're able to do it without causing harm to your health.

If that amount of time goes by and he is still acting like this, and unwilling to be verifiably NC, then you would need to go dark. Your own A does NOT mean that you must submit indefinitely to the abuse of a RA.

15,

I agree with Mel and Neak, but I have a few additional thoughts for you to consider. Let's review what he said and discuss how he might be seeing it. All I am going to say presupposes that his affair is over and he is out of withdrawal OK?

You said The first part of this would probably frighten him. It was great, he was feeling it, and he starts to feel himself reconnecting to you. Then he thinks it only took you a few weeks to get him to this state and the fear starts.

What could he fear? He fears he won't be able to detect when you find him to be less than you need. He fears that while the sex was great, he was not good enough to keep you in his bed. He fears that he is being a "wimp" be letting you into his heart. YOU MUST UNDERSTAND what he fears are what he sees as his failures that have led to your affair.

You don't have that fear because you think and he claims it was your affair that led to his affair. Do you see where I am going?

The point, he is on an emotional roller coaster so expect a "little cold" after "hot". If you are consistent and honest gradually the ups and downs of his roller coaster will diminish.

Then you said You were cornering him to make a commitment and he cannot with his fears. Listen to what he said, it is HIS truth, to him you were pushy.

You continue to make home inviting to him both because the children are there and because you are fun to be around and he will gradually conquer his fears. And remember one of his fears is that he will think himself a "wimp" if he gives in to you. So don't push, encourage.

I do a lot of business with government entities. I learned decades ago, that one should NEVER ask a question where the easy answer is NO! If you talk to him about coming home you are setting yourself up for the "easy" answer. Time and patience 15. You can do this.

One last point Dr. Harley has a concept called "disrespectful judgements". The definition of which has changed over the past decade or so. But one important things to remember by any definition it is one of the deadliest of love busters. You have a classic example in this post. You said You are assuming you know how he is thinking. You are assuming that you know the motivation for his actions. You are assuming that because you feel the burden of the family he is running from this burden. The odds are high you are wrong. But, if you act on these assumptions with no data to back them up, you are likely to set back recovery. You are not being selfish, you are committing a disrespectful judgement.

Learn to see these things. Ask yourself where is the data? Am I projecting something from me onto him? How can I obtain data that would confirm my judgement? Work on that, but don't act on a disrespectful judgement.

Do you see the point?

You are doing well 15. I know it seems like this has been going on forever, but recovery is measured in years, not weeks or months.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

Thank you so much! You always help me see things from my husbands eyes and perspective. You are a Godsend JL and I thank you!

Thank you for your wise words. Patients is one of my many weaknesses that I am working on.

I will assume you meant patience. Which is the ability to tolerate delay. It seems pretty passive. Waiting.

How about looking at your perseverance instead of patience?
Perseverance is the continuation on a course of action even in the face of difficulty. Determination of follow through. When you give yourself something to work on, I think working on an action is better than working on waiting.

Am I arguing semantics? Yes, somewhat.
But more than semantics, I want to encourage a state of mind.

You GO GIRL! Fix your eyes on your MB plan and Persevere !

I just had to bring this to your thread.


You're 'getting it'.
I can tell you're 'getting it' by the advice you're offering.

I am pleased.
Just thought you might use the positive feedback.
You have not been on MB long.
You're a fast (motivated?) learner.

keep it rollin' .................

Once again I am here and am wondering "What to do". I will give you the very short and sweet version of how I am feeling and then I will have to give some details so the big guns can help me.

Short and Sweet - My husband is taking all of my love units and not doing a very good job of giving back.

I know this sounds very selfish on my part, and maybe it is, but please read the details below. Then you can tell me if I am being selfish and irrational.



I have to go back a little ways just to give you a little insight on our "old" marriage. In our old marriage I met every one of my husbands EN's. He even said this himself a few weeks ago. I pleased him sexually and on a regular basis, I allowed him to have his free time but we also spend quality time together. I have kept myself fit and attractive for him and often times dressed up just to impress him.

However, over the years I felt like he started to take advantage of me. Long story short, a lot of my EN's were not being met and I never felt that I could express this to him. Again, no excuse for what I did, but definitely reasons that I have begun to address.


Now today, I am trying very hard to take in all of your advice, read the books and better myself in every way. I already know that no matter what happens, MB will be a part of my future life. I have expressed this to my husband and this is where I think the problem lies.


First of all this is where we are now
1. We are actively having sex
2. He is still saying he does not know what he wants
3. He has come over and spent the night a few times
4. We have been talking, laughing, enjoying each others company


The other side of it though
1. He has been drinking and going out with his alcoholic dad and brother...A LOT

2. Last Wednesday he showed up at the house at two in the morning, drunk and wanting to be with me

3. Last Friday I had to pick him up at the Casino, because he was too drunk to drive home.

4. He has shunned God for now and stopped going to church

5. He is not spending very much quality time with his kids, in fact the past couple times I have had to ask him to spend time with them.

6. I have tried not to be pushy but whenever I ask him about working on our marriage, he blows it off and says he needs more time to work on himself.

7. He is not being very productive at work (one of the reasons he gave me why he needed more time was to really focus on work)


This is how I feel right now:

1. I feel like I am being used for sex and he is having his cake and eating it to. I know JL you said I should not assume this but his actions lately have led me to think otherwise.

2. I am positive that there is not an OW (I have been keeping both eyes wide open) but I honestly feel like alcohol and going out have become his OW.

3.I really miss our partnership and need the entire marital package. The sex is not enough for me anymore and although I am really trying it is taking an emotional toll on me.

4. I feel like he is once again sweeping things under the carpet, he is just drowning it in a bottle instead. He refuses to "deal" with the situation so he is dealing in his own unhealthy way.

5. I feel he likes the idea of MB but is scared of it because he knows that it will require a lot of work and changes for both of us. He has gotten used to going out whenever he wants both within our marriage and now. He doesn't like the idea of actually asking me if it is okay (something that I have wanted for years that he has never been able to do)

6. I just feel like we are not moving forward that he wants to stay on this plateau because he has me where he wants me but he can still do whatever he wants.




Last night was the real kicker for me. He is house sitting for a friend of his parents right now. When I text him at 6:30 to see what he was doing he said that he was just hanging out with the dogs. We texted back and forth for awhile and then he texted me and asked If I wanted to come over and have some "none obligation" sex. For some reason this really hurt my feelings. It made me feel cheap and not loved. I expressed this to him and he said I was "missing the point".

Well around 9:30 I decided to call him to say goodnight and he did not answer his phone. The second time I called it went straight to voice mail. Using my spying skills and programs I found out that he was at a local bar with his dad (his dad goes there EVERY Friday night).

When he did finally call me back he did tell me where he was (I already knew). I told him that I was hurt that he lied to me about what he was doing and he basically told me that he decided to go up there last minute, that he doesn't have to check in with me because we are not living under the same roof, and I was being irrational.



Guys, help me!!! I want to save my marriage and I feel like he does too but I feel like I am doing all of the work. I am trying to have patience and perseverance. I have not been pushy and have let him have his space. When we are together I try to do everything for him, make him comfortable, joke with him, have sex with him, and show him that our home is warm and inviting and we miss him.

I'm running low though on a lot of things and really feel like I need to let him know this. I am just not sure how to do it and what to say or do.

15,
Reading this sound just about where we are, other than you are plan Aing like a champ, and my WW is slowly coming up to speed like a freight train.

I see your list and see a lot of me in there. I suck at work, no motivation- depression. Have been distant and sex is the only thing that seems to get us close, she may see it like you do-not sure about that.

I can only wish my WW had your motivation. She has been discouraged by my ups and downs and unwillingness to commit to the marriage. The only difference I see here is we are still living together.

You are doing all the work, and it will pay off. He is seeing hope in you and a person who really cares about him and his marriage. Don't give up, keep doing what your doing and he will start coming around. It's going to take some time.

Thanks Sen that means a lot, especially coming from the perspective of someone in almost the exact same situation as my husband. I was feeling pretty hopeless this morning...seeing your post really helps.

P.S. I am praying and thinking about you and your wife on a daily basis.

Might be a good time and issue to call into the radio show and speak to Dr. Harley about.

On one hand...he's conflicted and testing you in a if you truly care about me...you'll keep fighting for me. On the other hand he could be partially or fully just punishing you. On the third hand he could be heading for problems with substance abuse and escapism himself.

At some point...not today...but upon a time line you perhaps discuss with Dr. Harley you've got to erect boundaries. Something like..."I'm not going to divorce you but I'm not going to continue tolerating this treatment either" and you'll simply follow Dr. Harley's plan in "When to Call it Quits" yourself. However...the "Quits" part to me...especially in your position wouldn't be divorce...just a prolonged Plan B giving him two years at least to pull his crap together and commit to being in a relationship with you.

That being said...if the problem is (or is becoming) his relationship with alcohol...perhaps Alanon for you would be a source of comfort and advice. He could be sinking down this whole and need his wife to help pull him out. He doesn't realize he has a problem YET...but just you going to the meetings may wake him up. I don't know....no personal experience.

Again...I don't know when or how these boundaries come into play best when used by a former wayward wife on her recently betrayed husband. It's delicate as he may be fragile (I say may because he may know exactly what he's doing and intentionally punishing you which is mean and unhealthy for him...I've seen the divorce betrayed husbands who like to punish their wayward wives, other people's former wayward wives and just all or most women in general come through these boards and it ain't pretty). I understand your husband's hesitancy to be in relationship with you but at some point sooner than later for you, the kids and himself...he's got to choose.

I wish you well.

Mr. Wondering