Hello,

Having come across your website I trust and hope that I get the answers that I am looking for. Your letter #2 strikes a cord because so much of it correlates to our issue. I will change it slightly to describe my situation

I've been married (10) years to my wife that is somewhat incompatible with me. She tries to control everything about me, and we fight periodically.
We have a beautiful 7-year-old daughter. Then there is squash, the game that I LOVE and have played since 12 years old. Ditto Fishing. She wants to me to give it up, along with all my previous friendships. I have given up all friendships at her request squash and otherwise. All visits from previous friends have completely dried up, either way. I feel my identity is under great stress. I still get to mix at the squash centre and occasionally go fishing with family members(Still barely allowed). The squash playing is becoming more and more an issue.
But I do have a total commitment to my marriage. I have tried to make us both happy by going off periodically on fishing or squash trips. Hence the periodic fights. It takes about 10 days to 2 weeks to recover from a 1 to 2 day trip and results in divorce threats and deep unhappiness. Eventually something is going to give and we are looking for a way to resolve it. I am reasonably sure(99.9%) that squash/fishing and trips away are a non-negotiable from my spouse�s point of view
I must add that I am self-employed and don�t spend time with people on any type of social level at work. My office is at home and I spend a good deal of time there, much more than the average person would get.

My questions with regards to my situation and this process are the following:
I am going to try getting agreement on this process but it is unlikely to result in anything but the same demand that these activities stop. Lets say I make the decision to give up the pleasures I still have. My life is now a blank slate, pretty miserable having given up all previous contact and activities, probably now enter a deep depression. Will the demands stop here? Somehow I have my doubts? I guess the question to my wife is. What do you actually want? To tell the truth I don�t think she knows either. I don�t believe either that once she has achieved this, that she will now feel any extra happiness. She is basically a dissatisfied person that sees the glass half empty. All my conceding and agreeing to her requests and demands don�t appear to have resulted in a very happy marriage for either of us to date. The theory that I give up everything and we start doing things together does not seem to me that either of us is going to be happier. We spend enough time together, give me some air not more time together. Should I cut off all human contact unless she is present or approves?
What about biblical submission? Maybe she would welcome someone that simply drew a line in the sand and says this how things are going to work(Not really my nature). Get through the major battle and it will be peaches and cream after that?
What I am saying/asking, is that I feel that I am in a hole damned if I do, damned if I don�t. I understand that we are now supposed to replace this with activities that we do together but she is a housewife that likes drinking tea and talking to her friends. (Note: I don�t make demands that she give up her friends). How can one person be unhappy and then make demands on the other who then has to comply? Should I maybe start making the demands of her? Where will this take us?

Please give me some good advice as to what I should do knowing that this process information? is really just another step backwards? Please ask any questions if you need more info.

Hi Charles, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am confused by your statements because they completely contradict each other. You say you have a total committment to your marriage and in the next breath say you ignore her wishes and pick fights by going off fishing or on squash trips. So you obviously have a greater committment to your fishing/squash than your marriage. Why would you do that unless your goal is to make her unhappy?

See, gaining at her expense is not only disrespectful but it is destroying your marriage by creating incompatibility. You are CREATING incompatibility. All you are doing is showing her you don't care about her.


There is a much, much better way to create a happy marriage and it isn't found in pursuing your individual pursuits. Your way is leading to divorce and killing the love in your marriage. You don't have to be miserable, but at the same time you can't ever have a happy marriage if you put your fishing before your marriage. On the other hand, you could create a happy, romantic, fulfilling marriage by finding recreational activities to do TOGETHER that you both enjoy, in a way that would restore the romantic love in your marriage. You could find friends and leisure activities that you BOTH enjoy and have a happy marriage.

You are going about this the wrong way. But we can teach you how to do this right if you listen.

Check out these articles: Following the Policy of Joint Agreement When You're VERY Incompatible

How to Create Your Own Plan to Resolve Conflicts and Restore Love to Your Marriage

The Policy of Joint Agreement

If your wife is a fairly normal person, then you should find new activities that you both enjoy and pursue them together. Or teach your wife about fishing and maybe turn it into boating and picnicing with a bit of fishing. A fun family activity.
Instead of going out with your friends find some "Couple friends" and do things as a group including your wife. Maybe give up squash but take up tennis with her.

If your wife has a controlling personality disorder and just doesn't want you to do anything, then perhaps not being married to her is the answer.

The above post talks about the Policy of Joint Agreement. Assuming she is fairly normal, then you say that you understand she is not enthusiastic about you going out with your friends. You, however, are not enthusiastic about her seeing her friends either. So really neither of you should do anything. But what would make her enthusiastic about seeing your friends? Typically, wives don't like the hubby spending times with friends because they don't think they get enough of your time. So if she had 15 hours of time with you a week, would she be okay if you did something with your friends on occasion?

That is ridiculous. There is nothing that suggests she has a personality disorder and that he needs a divorce. It is obvious his independent behavior and the absence of the POJA is the core issue here. The solution to his problem is found in this program. His wife will do things she is ENTHUSIASTIC about, they just have to discover those things.

Controlling personality disorder?

That's the first time I've ever heard the desire to follow POJA called a personality disorder.

I don't understand these parameters. Nor do I understand how they do anything other than muddy the waters for this poster.

Welcome to MB

I just wanted to point out that your wifes "controlling personality disorder" is in no way a disorder .. its just her expressing her discontent (the only way she knows how) of lack of time with you. IF you could find things you could BOTH do together (use the recreationsol inventory on the questionairs page) you may find many things you can do together instead of the love buster independant behaviour which is taking away your love for eachother.

Check out this article below (together when your the happiest)

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5069_qa.html

And here is the link to the recreational activites inventory..

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4505_rei.html

MNG

CoPD?

Oh, that's a medical disorder. Yeah, never heard of controlling personality disorder, either.


Do these pleasures include your lovely wife?


Have you thought about embracing your identity as husband and father? Maybe you won't feel so blank slate, depressed, and stressed if you EMBRACE the new identity you signed up for.

I'm pretty sure your wife and child would love that.

Your identity is not what you do.

Say you have a nasty habit every night of taking your socks off and leaving them on the floor. Not only is this unsanitary, but it bugs your wife to no end. She can't stand it. In fact, you don't even much like it yourself; it makes you feel like a slob.

So, you make a new habit: you actually go so far as to sit down and practice taking your socks off several times a day and putting your socks in the hamper instead of on the floor. Eventually you just do it automatically: socks come off, and they go in the hamper, without you even thinking about it. Putting them anywhere besides the hamper feels pretty awkward to you, actually, so you never do that.

Now your wife is happy, and you are happier with yourself. You have changed. Has your identity changed? No, of course not; you just changed your habits. For the better, I might add; thanks to your wife's emotions, you are no longer a self-loathing sock slob.

There are an infinite number of recreational activities you might like in this world. You have a lifetime before you of pleasing activities. You might find yourself unable to engage in some things you might like, but you can find plenty of others that make BOTH of you happy, instead of one person being happy at the other's expense.

People who have happy marriages are the ones who have done that: negotiated only activities that make both of them happy. They can do that because there are a multitude of alternatives; it's not "my way, her way, or the highway."

By the way, it's not a man's favorite recreational activities that keep a man from being depressed. Depression in a man is usually caused by his career.

Meanwhile, depression in a wife is usually caused by neglect from her husband!

Or an overbearing controlling wife who wants him to give up EVERYTHING and (God forbid) SPEND TIME WITH HER!!!

Oh, wait, that usually indicates an affair.

For biblical information, please read Mortarman's thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=119011&Number=1379231#Post1379231

Thanks for the responses. I understand from some that I must be a very selfish person and will take this on board. Also that we must start with a fresh slate. However these things were not a problem when we got married.

How does this statement from the policy agreement relate to my issues or is it not applicable to me?

�In marriage, your interests and your spouses interests should be considered simultaneously. One of you should not suffer for the benefit of the other, even willingly, because when either of you suffer, one is gaining at the other's expense. If you both care about each other, you will not let the other suffer so that you can have what you want�

It very much is applicable to you and it means you should not make your wife suffer on your behalf. That statement does not mean that you should do whatever you please no matter how unhappy it makes her. Anything that makes her unhappy should be eliminated. Anything that makes you unhappy should be eliminated. The article I linked previously explains it very well. I will link it again: Following the Policy of Joint Agreement When You're VERY Incompatible

Charle, throughout your life, there are going to be lots and lots of changes. Some of these will be forced on you, and some of them will be within you. Your marriage will have to be dynamic to adapt to these changes. Emotional needs that were not important may suddenly become important. Activities that both of you valued at one time may become intolerable for one or both of you.

Marriage Builders gives you the policies you need (including the policy of joint agreement) to build a flexible, robust, and dynamic marriage that can be good for both of you your entire lives, even when things change and new problems arise.

One of the great things about the policy of joint agreement is that it is PRESENT focused. It deals with your problems and issues RIGHT NOW, rather than keeping you mired in the unresolvable problems of the past. This is a Godsend for many people, but it does mean that you need to take your spouse's feelings into account as they are RIGHT NOW. You might both agree to do something and then get there and your wife discovers she doesn't want to do it. The policy of joint agreement says don't do it if she's not enthusiastic, so you say "Okay, we won't do it!" You go find something else you both like.

Here's a recording of Dr. Harley explaining this to me on the radio:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3332
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3333
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3334

If you or your wife is doing something that the other doesn't like, then the other is suffering so that the first can gain at their expense.

This statement means that you must not DO anything that your wife is reluctant about.

If you are putting things on hold that your wife does not like and feeling resentment about it, it is because you haven't YET found an alternative that you like. But there are hundreds of alternatives, so put the problem on the front burner and talk about it and solve it together. Then your resentment will go away.

"If you both care about each other, you will not let the other suffer so that you can have what you want" <-- "What you want" refers to things like you playing squash. "Let the other suffer" <-- refers to how your wife feels when you do stuff. It does not refer to how you feel when you DON'T do stuff.

There are two completely different types of resentment in marriage:

* The resentment you feel when your spouse does something that bothers you.
* The resentment you feel when you don't get to do something you want.

These two types of resentment must be treated completely differently. The POJA refers to the first type of resentment. It must be eliminated AT ALL COSTS. It takes priority over the other type.

Only AFTER the first type of resentment is eliminated can the two of you build a brand new life that is so good it eliminates the second type of resentment.

**edit***

Moderator's note: please help this poster with MB principles instead of trying to psychoanalyze his spouse.