Might as well go to the 'kicker'.


This definitely sounds like a 'test' to me.
Are you still 'that woman' who is willing to have non obligation sex?

I think you did OK.
May I suggest an alternative?
Not to criticize, but to help you expand your repertoire.
Just so you can respond to future 'tests' in more pro-marriage ways, and come across less defensive.

15, a 'test' of what your boundaries might currently be is far less accusatory than him saying you currently have low boundaries. You 'get' that, right?
So respond as if his intention were to test you, not to insult you.

Something along these lines:

"I'm holding out for love and lovemaking."
"I did not like myself when I strayed from my values."
"That's not what I am looking for."
"You are very sexy. I want more than just sex."
"I want to love you with every fibre of my being."
"Just having sex when I desire love, would be dishonest of me."

You get the idea.

It will be easier for you to respond non defensively after some practice.

Plan B was suggested to me by some posters, but not others. Dr. H actually weighed in on the issue on my thread, and said that the effect of my doing Plan B on my BH would be the end of our M... Dr. H on Plan B. I was on the MB radio show 2x where both times he advised against Plan B.

I don't know what the answer is, 15...if you've read my sitch, I'm in a similar boat, except H did move back home, and it's been over 2 years now since full disclosure of my PA. As a FWW, I often feel as though I've essentially weakened - if not destroyed - my negotiating position. I completely understand & agree with what Mr. W is saying about erecting boundaries, but have had little success in doing so myself with my H, so can't advise you there. I've continued operating on the belief that this is what holds true for my H:

...but at the same time, being in Plan A for approximately 15 months (admittedly not always the best Plan A), and dealing with some pretty major life issues apart from our M, has been a struggle.

The differences I see from my sitch are that 1) you're not very far into this - with your D-day being last November, things are relatively recent; 2) he has slid somewhat into WS behavior himself with a budding EA although you believe that it is over (I think I have that right?) and 3) there could be some potential chemical addiction issues - addiction is a disease that can have a genetic component and you've stated his father and brother are alcoholics.

An email to the radio show is an excellent idea. Dr. H and Joyce are great to talk to, and extremely helpful.

I was actually on the radio show a couple weeks ago. Dr. H suggested that the very best thing for our marriage would be for my husband to come back home. We actually talked today about it and what my H does not get is the MB is a way to improve your marriage. He keeps taking it as my way to try to "change" him. He just get insulted and upset and says "I thought we had a good marriage, it disappoints me that you didn't". I really tried to explain to him today that MB gives you the tools and knowledge to make a good marriage even better. That I don't want to change him but want to make our marriage the best one it can be. I actually think I might have gotten through but he still says he is not sure what he wants and needs more time.

Once again I need some advice from the pros. Just a very quick recap on what has been going on since last weekend.

1. We have been spending a lot of time together but he still will not committed to moving back yet. We had a very long and productive talk on Sunday morning about respecting each other and our marriage.

2. We went to a friends Super Bowl party together on Sunday and we were both very affectionate with each other and comfortable together.

3. He has not been going out and or drinking. He has been telling me what he is doing when we are not together.

4. I actually went to help him at work on Monday and we went to dinner on Tuesday.

The past few days have been great but I think I might have might have made a mistake. Having sex with him without having any kind of commitment and without him even considering moving back home is really emotionally affecting me. I told him this and while I did not use selfish demands and say commit or else, I did say that until he knows for sure what he wants I do not know if I can continue having sex with him because it hurts me emotionally.

I told him this on Sunday evening and he seemed a little upset at first but we have continued to talk, be affectionate, and hang out...just not with any sex.

The problem is I am now feeling guilty about this and wondering if I made the right decision. A part of me says yes that if I continue to have sex with him then he has the best of both worlds and will never come home but another part of me says that I am using this as an unconscious "selfish demand".

The other night at dinner he told me that he still feels that coming home means he is officially giving me his heart back and he is just not ready to do this. He says that he has to be able to trust me and forgive me first. I however feel that him coming home and being with me is the only way for him to find out if he can truly trust and forgive me.

I guess what I am taking forever to get at is, did I make the right decision to stop making love to my husband until he knows what he wants or am I being selfish?

Well I think it has to be a mutual decision for the two of you, right now if you don't feel it's the right thing yet then he will understand as long as you explain the reason to him......
Just keep spending great time together, go slowly and eventually it will seem normal and part of the relationship again........I am a BS but remember feeling that way a couple of times and slowed things down........
But in the end you are a married couple and your sex life is part of sharing and being in an intimate relatioship......as long as the rest happens it will feel right so work on those parts .........
sounds like things are moving well..........

I would think that you would want to take EVERY opportunity to demonstrate to your husband that you will fulfill all of his emotional needs.

This is your Plan A time -- even though things are backwards.
You are trying to entice your husband back to the marriage.
I don't understand why you would put up barriers.

...did I make the right decision to stop making love to my husband...

Probably not. Try this simple exercise: 1)Mentally swap genders 2)change the EN in question. So this yields (from a WH in your exact situation): Did I make a mistake to stop performing maintenance on my wife's car?

A lot easier to consider that right? And certainly the answer would be an easier, "Moron! You have the opportunity to do some serious Plan A activities, and you don't want to get your hands dirty!!!"

Sadly, you have the pervasive 21st-century female view that SF is somehow the be-all and end-all between married couples, and is to be doled out by the wife if the husband has been worthy. NO, IT'S ONLY ONE OF MANY THINGS THAT SHOULD BE ENJOYED AS A COUPLE. (And at my advanced age, my crawling under my bride's vehicle to change the oil is a helluva lot more of a demonstration of love and affection than her agreeing to get frisky!)

...am I being selfish? No, just uneducated. However, if you maintain your prior attitude, having had this sterling lesson, THEN you would be selfish!

15, my H had the same request - "no strings" sex - after he moved out.

I was often very conflicted about it, myself. On the one hand, it was a way for me to meet one of H's needs and make deposits in his LB$. On the other hand, I struggled with feeling used for sexual purposes. Things weren't always "wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am", but sometimes they were. I cried a lot of tears, but I continued to make myself available to him for SF. He's great in bed, so it's not like I was getting a raw deal...it was the "IF ONLY" part I kept getting hung up on...SF with my husband would be great IF ONLY he'd tell me he loved me...IF ONLY he'd move home...you get the picture?

Dr. H's advice, on my thread, was that SF should be mutually enjoyable, that it should not cause either party massive LB$ withdrawals.

That is the question you have to ask yourself - does SF with your H cause withdrawals from your LB$? Can your LB$ handle that withdrawal in light of the potential for you to make a larger deposit in HIS LB$?

Have you approached that BH moving home would help the family to save money?

That him moving home does not signal BH has been convinced you have changed. Though that living back home will make easier for him to see you puting in the necessary work to self improve.

As to SF, if seen one spouse just string along the other spouse for SF only to pull and adios baby.

But read up on SF and what hysterical bonding is and how it helps the WS and BS reconnect and bond. You know how bad your BH wants SF. You did not deny OM SF. Now you want to Deny BH SF.

Black and white statement but BH seeing himself being cut off again because of all the manure started by the OM you have a BH possibly getting madder at the OM instead of the OM and your affair with the OM.

Send an email to the Harley's it may get answered for free on their radio show. You got the money honey, call you for the best way to handle SF and how to have a new strategy from them on how to handle BH with where he is now.

You sure didn't have any trouble not turning the OM down. What do you think turning your BH down does to him emotionally knowing this?? I would've been crushed. He's got this mental movie (with no stop or pause button) running through his head that he is trying to purge and you pull this?? It's still more about you and your feelings when it should be about his.

You're acting like he should be trying to earn something back from you instead of you earning something back from him. Your thinking is ALL bassackwards.

Seems to me that YOU were the only one to enjoy that luxury!

Okay, now you're finally on to something.

You can't repair this mess living separately.

Hell no to the first question, and Hell yeah to the second!!!!

Going to be completely honest here; if you were my wife and you pulled that stunt with me the next time you would see or hear from me would be divorce court. And I am NOT kidding. Help this man heal in any way you can! If it makes you feel cheap, well tough. You brought it on yourself. Welcome to the consequences of your actions.

ETA- This is just my opinion, from the twice betrayed male perspective. Not to be conveyed as any MB endorsed advice. There...CYA accomplished!

TW,

Everything you said is dutifully noted and appreciated. I think I am just a little more sensitive because my husband had a RA on me so it adds another twist into this situation and my emotions. I agree though, I need to suck it up because I do enjoy SF and I do think that it is bringing us closer. Thank you!!

I am in NO way condoning what he did. Don't take what I said as that. But ask yourself one question and answer with complete honesty; Do you think his affair would have occurred had yours not?

Not that he's off the hook for what he did, but his RA was born out of rage, anguish, despair, and an adolescent desire to get a little payback; to try and assuage some of that hurt you inflicted on him (your affair, not so much). I'm betting it didn't work, and now he feels even worse than he did before. Yet he's still battling his own demons and fighting his way back to you.

And you hold him at arms length......



Give him a reason to want to come home. All you're doing now is giving him a reason to stay away.

This seems very contradicting to me. As if, "well, he did have a really good excuse."

And I could be wrong, but I thought A's were born out of lack of boundaries, etc...not anger, immaturity and sadness...which seems to be the excuses most WS like to blame to begin with.

fifteen years...just wanted to send you support.

I can imagine how dealing with being a WS and dealing with being a BS is very difficult...and confusing at times.

Is your WH as remorseful about his A as you seem to be about yours? What is he doing to win you back? Would that help you with the SF?

I completely agree with you TW, that he would not have done what he did IF I would not have done what I did. But isn't that just making excuses for his actions? Does't that in a sense give me justification to say I would not have done what I did IF....

I cannot and will not make any excuses for my actions. I can name a number of reasons but there is and NEVER will be an excuse for hurting my spouse like that. That is one thing I have come to realize on this forum and reading all of the information on this site and in the books.

I completely understand that my actions led to his choice to have an affair, but it was his CHOICE not mine. I will take the blame for the reasons why it happened, but I will not be the excuse.

With that said, I have and never will throw what he did in his face. I have made peace with what he did, not sure if I can say that I have forgiven him quite yet. I am just saying that my emotions are very mixed up right now because I have guilt, shame, and fear from being both the WS and the BS all in a very short period of time.

Rubydoo,
He is remorseful, but like TW he says that he never would have done it, if I would not have done it first. He is being very affectionate with me and we are spending a lot of time together but he still says he does not know what he wants. I think this is what is playing with my emotions the most, the fear that he is going to walk away at any moment.

Me either, I have already taken them down and feel much better

NG,

I always appreciate your wise words and radical honesty. I called my husband right after reading your message yesterday. It went very well.

Thank you!

I don't see anything contradictory.
WW PA pushed BH out onto the slippery slope.

As Doc H said we are all wired to have an PA. Extra precautions are needed to prevent them.

Well this BH has boundaries only strong enough as long as his WW did not cross the line first. He never put boundaries in place strong enough to withstand a dday because this BH knew that they were never going to be needed.

Never needed just like the life boats that they removed off the Titanic before they finished building her.

Everyone knows a RA is wrong. Even the BS, because we have seen many a BS here spew their own fog babble justifying their going off to have a RA.

That's why we all try to talk a BS to back away from the revenge affair ledge before they leap.

fifteen, if I in ANY way implied that the responsibility for his affair lies on your shoulders, I apologize. That was not my intention at all and not what I meant to convey. I just wanted you to think about the "would he have done this if" part.

His RA is all on him. It was an incredibly stupid move on his part and he's gonna have to accept responsibility for it.

Do you think he would be open to starting his own thread here? I think it would do the both of you a lot of good.

I am also reading this as "well he had a really good excuse" but also as "it's not his fault because his wife had an A(s) first."

I'm sure most WS could blame actions of the BS as the reason why they had an A or got on the slippery slope...but at the end of the day the reason was you, the WS.