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Krazy71,
I would encourage OW to get a restraining order, block his email, texts, FB, phone, etc.

I would encourage her to share her evidence with BW so she can deal with it as she deems best. If she refuses, you could share whatever evidence you have, so long as you can back it with proof so you aren't going to be sued for libel and you aren't harming someone who might be innocent.

I don't know if you ever met the WH or not. I don't know if you have seen anything first hand or not. That would determine the degree to which you expose to BW.

And if OW refused to expose or end A, I would break off contact with her due to moral differences. That's just me, you can do what you see best.


Enacting life's lessons into positive change... .
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I kinda feel sorry for Krazy. He's got A LOT of catching up to do.


Me (BS): 41
Ex (lying cheating piece of dirt): 43
Kids: 12 DD, 6 DS
Married 17 years
I filed: 9/25/10
Divorce final: 10/4/11
He remarried: 10/15/11

My current status: Healing a little more every day!
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I wanted to give myself the day to reflect on the thread I participated with several of you on the last 24 hours and share what this experience has been like for me.
I have been a member and reading threads for about 4 years. In that time I watched as most of you on this thread gave advice and counsel with best intentions to those in need of help with infidelity or other marriage related issues based on the MB concepts. I chose not to share my story. While others receive comfort in it, that is not my way.
During the course of my participation in this thread, my honesty, integrity and motives were brought into question. Why? Because I wouldn"t share my story. Because I sounded like someone else (I have never been on the threads before). Because I didn't agree with others plan of action. It was as if there is an eliteism of counselers and if you don't follow that template you are villified. I certainly was. Along with being misquoted and mischacterized.
As for the story itself,I went back and reviewed the entire thread again just to ensure my facts are correct. We were informed, a woman was engaged to a man that she ultimately found out was married. This is absolutely horrible and tragic. No person should be treated this way. She informed her friend and they shared that story on the thread seeking counsel. Here's where the story gets confusing. For the first few pages the story comes to light and the immediate response from the storyteller is he is going to expose and considering using the nuclear option. While he was dissuaded from that argument almost all that gave counsel wanted to expose the affair to the wife.
I was dumbfounded. I made a decision, not an easy one for me, to join the conversation because based on what I knew of MB and learned from reading from most of you over the years this action seemed percipitous and intemperate on several levels:
1) we don't know if the story is accurate
2) we don't know what the wife and husband relationship is
3) we don"t know if there was a motivation on the woman's part
4) the woman did not want to expose
Seems like a lot we don't know. Regardless, several of the posters wanted immediately to expose to the wife. I was beat up for not asking questions, well, I was a little late to the game. My counsel which got lost in the noise was:
1)temperance
2)patience
3)verification
Clearly, I take responsibility for allowing myself to get off track and not sticking to the point and allowing myself to respond to the off kilter posts from some of you the way I did. Regardless, in my view we have no idea what was going on so we should not give any counsel regarding exposure at that point and we don't even know if our poster knows the wife and he was counseled to expose to her.
Lastly, I was informed by some of you that it was our moral imperative and responsibility to expose a relationship we were aware of. So my questions are, at all costs? To a stranger? Without direct knowledge? Really?
I was under the impression, mistakenly as several of you were kind enough to point out so rigorously, that we stuck to the MB concepts with zeal. In attempting to follow those principles I was informed that we can expand on the concepts even though they are not endorsed specifically by Dr. Harley. The analogy I was given and I am paraphrasing was even though Dr. Harley doesn't specify exercise as one of his concepts it doesn't prevent us from exercising. But Dr. Harley does specify exposure within the bounds of marriage and does not mention a word of exposing infidelity to a betrayed spouse by a stranger.. In my view it is here the analogy unravels.
In the end, I became the issue instead of poster and that is my bad.
Just a part of my story, for several years I have been responsible for investigating sexual harrassment and hostile work environment cases. I have significant backgound in these types of deceptive issues as a professional. I don't state this to be condescending, I say it because I look at things dispassionately so I can make decisions without emotion or jumping to conclusions regardless how reprehensible the situations I investigate appear. My sense is that is a challenge for some here. In some cases some of the information you shared has been invaluable in helping me. Yesterday I saw posts that were going down a horrible path with hardly any definitive knowledge and making decisions based on air.
So I posted, based on some of your reactions, not so good.
I will continue to read the counsel you give and use it as I can, but to be attacked and villified because I haven't shared my scars, don't agree, won't expose out of hand and immediately without thought and put peoples marriages in jeopardy for no good reason. I think I'll pass on that one.
I wish you all the best.

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I've been wondering why this thread has been going on in the "After Divorce: Dating and Relationships" thread.

From my reading, Krazy71 has already resolved the issue to his own satisfaction.


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
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Wow! It looks like I should clarify some things:

The only evidence I have is what my friend told me, but I have no reason to think she's being dishonest. I've known about the man in question for a long time, and what he did to her. When she found out he was married, she did contact his wife. It had little effect, likely because she is a weak-willed doormat as I once was.

Her reasoning for not wanting me to contact the wife is that she thinks he will stay away for good this time, and exposing him will only make him more likely to seek further contact. She has a bit of a weak will too, obviously.

This isn't a case of an OW desiring to continue an affair, I assure you. This is a case of an unwilling participant in a past affair who was/is being stalked by the guy.

I understand it is easy to see red flags all over the place. Once you get caught up in "affairism", everything is seen through infidelity-colored glasses.


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((( KZ )))

Thanks for the clarification.
Have a great Monday.

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Pepperband...Thanks for the clarification??? That's it??? Really???
The OW already exposed to the wife and KZ never mentions it....not once...he is counseled by several folks on the first few pages of this thread to expose to the wife, including you and he responds to each post and never once says the OW already exposed.
Where is the outrage? Where are the questions of why he never shared that critical piece of information.
I counseled patience and temperance before giving counsel and this is why. I also counseled that KZ not get involved. this is why.
And...I would counsel that the only advice posters ever give to someone not directly involved in a MB type situation is to get the person directly involved on the board. If they choose not to that's their decision.
I would hope that the folks who were originally on this thread go back and review what they wrote and allow for a certain amount of introspection on what was written and how someone that has a differing point of view than theirs was treated.
Thanks.

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Outrage? Come on, it's an internet message board, not life and death.


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Originally Posted by crushed4x
And...I would counsel that the only advice posters ever give to someone not directly involved in a MB type situation is to get the person directly involved on the board.

Yes, you already told us how you feel about a third party exposing to a BS:
Originally Posted by crushed4x
The premise that there is some reasonable logic that a person not intimately involved in an affair would force themselves intrusively into another family's life that way just astounds me.

This has been gone over...extensively. Many don't agree and told you why and under what circumstances they would expose. *sheesh*


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Who are you, crushed?
It's not that your views are different.
It's that you won't tell us who you are.
You don't have to.
But why should we listen to someone who refuses to be anything more than a stranger?


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Originally Posted by crushed4x
And...I would counsel that the only advice posters ever give to someone not directly involved in a MB type situation is to get the person directly involved on the board. If they choose not to that's their decision.

And I would counsel people to ignore comments from dodgy posters who don't want to explain why they are here or give us any way of judging how familiar they are with Marriage Builders concepts and who argue against key parts of Marriage Builders on other threads.

Especially since we've had a lot of problems with that on the past.

I would also counsel people to hit "notify" on posts that conflict with Marriage Builders concepts.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Outrage...absolutely...there was a critical piece of information that was omitted...and counsel was given without all the facts that were in your possession that would have impacted that counsel...and when you talk about exposing to anyone...that is life and death...of a marriage...relationship...self respect...yes life and death...
SusieQ...and I reiterated that point based on what has transpired in an effort to perhaps have some of those folks reflect on their positions and maybe change their mind..."sheesh"

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My advice to Krazy remains the same.


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Originally Posted by markos
And I would counsel people to ignore comments from dodgy posters who don't want to explain why they are here or give us any way of judging how familiar they are with Marriage Builders concepts and who argue against key parts of Marriage Builders on other threads.

Good advice that I am going to follow!


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Quote
and when you talk about exposing to anyone...that is life and death...of a marriage...relationship...self respect...yes life and death...
heh ... whatever.


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Originally Posted by Prisca
Who are you, crushed?
It's not that your views are different.
It's that you won't tell us who you are.
You don't have to.
But why should we listen to someone who refuses to be anything more than a stranger?

I think crushed said she worked on sexual harassment cases. My observation is that professionals don't really 'get' this forum. Argumentative thread jacking seems to be their standard operating procedure.


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Originally Posted by crushed4x
Outrage...absolutely...there was a critical piece of information that was omitted...and counsel was given without all the facts that were in your possession that would have impacted that counsel...and when you talk about exposing to anyone...that is life and death...of a marriage...relationship...self respect...yes life and death...

You have it backwards. NOT exposing is often a matter of life and death. Spouses are routinely exposed to STDs, wiped out financially, etc, etc, so the greatest risk is in NOT KNOWING. It wouldn't hurt a BS to be told of an affair and then discover it was not true, but it would hurt a BS to not be told when it IS true.

When a betrayed spouse is being destroyed behind her back that is critical information about her own life. It would be immoral and irresponsible to NOT inform such a person. Krazy has every reason to believe the affair is true, and even if it was not, the BS could be given all the necessary information so she could investigate for herself.

The evidence that Krazy possesses is plenty enough evidence to be warranted in exposing to this BS, however, he seems to believe that the OW herself has already informed the BS.

crushed, you have very irrational, fuzzy views about adultery that are obviously influenced by society. I would suggest you put those aside and use your thinking cap instead. People like you are dangerous.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by crushed4x
Where is the outrage?.

I don't know.
I looked and looked for my outrage, but it seems to have gone missing.
I imagine it will return when outrage is obliged by dire circumstances.

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And I will demonstrate why your judgment is impaired by addressing some of your "reasons" for advocating against exposure:

Originally Posted by crushed4x
1) we don't know if the story is accurate

Krazy has first person testimony. That is legitimate evidence of an affair.

Quote
2) we don't know what the wife and husband relationship is

Utterly irrelevant. The status of their relationship means nothing.

Quote
3) we don"t know if there was a motivation on the woman's part

Irrelevant. Her motivation means nothing. What matters is if it is true.

Quote
4) the woman did not want to expose

Again irrelevant. The BS's need and right to know supercede the perp's desires.

If you are going to step in and lecture others on the advice they give, you should make sure your own advice makes sense. What you listed here makes no sense and reflects a lack of thinking on your part.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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**edit**

Last edited by MBLBanker; 01/23/12 04:28 PM. Reason: TOS: personal attack
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