In a nutshell, I have been with the same women for 22 years. We have been married 16 of those, with two kids. In so many words she has told me she cannot love me like she used to and blames me that my selfishness is why she is acting like she does today. She wants to have fun, but it seems now that she'd rather do it without me.

We had a falling out back in November and I pledged to work harder on those things some women get upset about...helping out around the house, spending time with them, showing more affection publicly, etc... I really have tried to turn things around and am the point now where it seems now like she has no appreciation for it. Like more marriages, I think I took things for granted and this wake-up call made me rededicate my love for her.

I have on more than one occasion set up long weekend getaways to get her to see how much I care for her. Those getaway usually end up making me feel good about things...lord knows I am trying.

Rewind 2 weeks ago. My son had a baseball game that night. My wife tells me she is going to some jewelry party with an old co-worker. I told her, have fun and thought nothing much of it. She came home at a reasonable hour that night, kinda tipsy, but nothing seemed awry....she was out having fun with the girls was my thought at the time. The next morning I found a patch on the floor in the bedroom closet that is associated with a brand of liquor. Not entirely strange, as my wife is a liquor manager and often she brings home hats, posters, etc.... Later that day at a friend's house, they asked how the party was...I say what party...they say the liquor vendor party....I think...WTF?!? My wife LIED to me about this...why? Embarrassment, shame, or worse???

Over the past year or so she has on several occasions gone out with some of the various liquor vendors that supply to her store...a perk...free golf, wine tastings, etc...On one occasion I was invited, but just that once. She has found a new love for golf, so she does that whenever she can...almost always free. It makes me jealous that she does this as it's mostly guys, but i try and keep a poker face about it and tell her to have fun. She is now doing what says I used to do...kinda being selfish. Granted, back 10+ years ago, I used to play golf with the guys 1-2 month, but for social events, I never excluded her.

So I confronted her last night...

Cooked dinner...then suggested to wife we go for a walk because I wanted to talk to her about something...here we go.

After walking through the great belt of our subdivison, I stop when we are as far away from any snooping neighbors that might be listening...if this thing is going to blow up, at least they will have to make an effort.

"I just want to know...why did you lie about the party...?"

"Because I know you'd get pissed about it...cause you probably wanted to go"

"Well, I am 10x more pissed now that you lied to me"

"Who did you go with?"

"I went by myself...I only had one ticket...it was just to network with the vendors"

...at this point I am pretty convinced she is telling the truth...but in the back of my mind I have some doubts. I have looked at her cell phone and noticed a few calls that afternoon that jive with her story that she invited some old neighbors of ours (whom told me she was at the party instead of what she told me), and a couple liquor vendors. She erases her IMs from time to time, so I cannot be 100% certain. I want to believe it was just networking...I really do. Should I have been more assertive in my questioning...perhaps. I am just afraid of it blowing up in my face as she is a good person and someone I truly love...just confused.


We go on to walk a while and she scolds me for not understanding that networking is good in case she needs another job or get some of the perks (golf, parties, etc..) that come with it...Tit for tat...(no pun intended). I tell her I do understand repeatedly and start down that road saying I feel excluded, or she is trying to hide me. She explains how she really cannot invite me as she is a guest...anyways, sounds like I am uninvited which pisses me off.

We then arrive home and talk more about things...how I am trying to be a better husband...made changes she wants, etc...Again, the "you used to..." is thrown in my face, although the magnitude is overdone. I used to occasionally go golfing 1-2 month, play softball 1-2 week, etc...She wants to live, and I support that, but I won't want to be two boats at see that occasionally see each other at port one a week....you know?

She then goes on to suggest that it will never be like it was, that I will eventually fail in my changes I have made (in a nutshell, I cook more, I clean house more, I spend less time on the computer, I try and be more affectionate in public, etc...). She says "we'll see.." She says I don't like to do anything with her, I say, I like to golf...go out...etc..She says she is nagged I dont go to the movies with her/kids....which is true, but I am willing to do whatever, as I have been trying to show her.

In closing I said, "hey look...I don't mind you going out...just include me when you can...I feel left out..." She says ok. I say if she needs a ride, call me...I dont care..better than paying thousands for a DUI...uggg...

I want to get us into counseling ASAP, but do you think it's too late?

Thanks for listening...

=CC=

I think you need to find out the truth about what is going on. There are all sorts of red flags that scream affair.

You cannot proceed smartly until you have the facts.

Get the facts. They may be different from what she's telling you.

I agree with EE, to rule out an affair first, like online cell records instead of looking at the phone itself, and don't ask her, but rather take a look for yourself. I know it's not anything anyone wants to do, but it takes what it takes to get to the truth.


This statement is really shocking to me, to be honest. That's one plan, waiting for her to get invitations from others, and then squeezing you in.

Like you know, you put above, that she wants more fun, and so do you. How would you feel about courting her? Inviting her out, planning fun things together, every day, every week? Have you read the Basic Concepts? Dr. H recommends 20+ hours a week for folks who are fallen out of love. I don't see how that will happen, sitting around waiting for other folks to invite y'all out.

She said she couldn't invite you because she only ahd one ticket but then you say that she invited neighbors. How could she invite neighbors to go if she only had one ticket? It doesn't square up.

Your circumstance sound similar to mine. Known my wife for 20 years, married for 17 of them, with 2 kids.

She went back to work full time 3 years ago. It added a lot frustration, stress and resentment into our lives that we learned to ignore and just live with...never good. This spring we stopped talking all together. I focused on coaching my kids baseball teams.

After some snooping around in early August, I was crushed to find out she was having an emotional affair with a guy she knew at work. All the signs were there, but my blinding trust in her made me oblivious to them.

You need to find out for certain if your wife has become interested in somebody else...follow your gut instincts because mine never failed me once I listened to it. Cell calls and text messages can be erased...I found out by checking her phone before she could erase her most recent ones.

Get access to her records. By doing so I found hundreds of text messages over a two month period and phone calls that lasted for hours while I was at baseball games. Our cel records also record the location of the nearest routing cel tower...with this information I was able to determine that she actually spent one day at his house instead of at work. By using online resources I found out his name and addresss and I found his business card in her wallet.

With a keystroke recorder I was able to access her email. She had deleted the messages but her "friend" was an email contact.

When I told her that I knew EVERYTHING she had done, her make believe fantasy world came crashing down. We have since been working on saving our marraige.

Knowledge is power...you need to find out for certain.

updated...

ON average, things seem to have improved. She has toned down a bit...I still continue to try, but now I am working 400 miles away, commuting back home on the weekends. Got layed off in June and started this gig in SD in August....here is the latest.

I still feel like I am walking on eggshells...one day I will get a backbone.

My wife seems to txt this guy from work an awful lot. The both work mornings (grocery), and are work buddies. I am guessing he is about 10-15 years younger. I have briefly talked to him a few times, and was never really suspicious. Phone records show going back to 12/23, 128 sends, and 145 receives.

Most are before dinner time...I am not sure of the content, and have only attempted looking a couple times...never found anything from him...so, it really arouses my suspicion.

There is also, what I believe, going out with POSSIBLY him and other work friends. Wife buys kids something to eat and then is gone for hours. She always seems to have a good cover story (movies, union meeting, etc...)

Not sure what to do...I am 400 miles away.

I suspect things have "improved" because you are 400 miles away for most of the week and she has the freedom to continue her activities without you being on her back about it.

Married women (and men) do not need to text their opposite-sex coworkers outside of work once, let alone 300 times. I don't think I've even texted my own husband that often in that time span (and I am 20 years younger than her!).

You are dealing with an affair here and it's time to start treating it as one, or else it will just continue (as it did from your 1st post)

CC, it's been a while since you've found Marriage Builders. In that time, have you read any of the articles on this site? Surely you have read Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts, yes? What have you implemented into your marriage from these concepts?

The scenario you are describing is an open invitation to an affair. What are you doing, working hundreds of miles away from your wife???

You cannot possibly manage to fit 15-20 hours of UA time in each week by packing them into the weekends when you are home. You barely have time to get home before you have to turn around and go back!

Do you understand the importance of UA time in your marriage?

You, friend, have inadvertantly set yourself up for marriage failure.

You are not home during the week. You are not meeting her Emotional Needs. I know that you think that you are working so hard for the family, but unfortunately some other guy (the texter) is meeting her needs.

You have wrecked your marriage. It was going to be hard to resolve the obvious problems [her playing around with vendors] but now since you have moved away, it is impossible.

I would do everything in your power to undo the dreadful mistake of moving away. You have just about ensured the demise of your marriage by doing that.