Read an interesting WSJ piece yesterday.

LINK to WSJ article

Here is the crux of the issue:


It's not infrequent we hear a disgruntled spouse say: "I've told him/her a million times not to do that."

Nagging (persistent) probably falls under two love buster items.
Disrespectful Judgments
and
Annoying Habits

Your thoughts?

I agree.

I'm glad you started this thread, because I was reading on 101 and thought about creating a thread here about my concerns about the poster's description of the ending of his first marriage, paraphrased as: emotional abuse by a high-conflict wife.

I read that completely as: complaints that are ignored by the leaving spouse.

Just last night my H said that he wished he had learned to put our marriage first while in his last job. He's not too happy where he is. He is successful and at a more prestigious company now, and it was Steve Harley who helped propel him toward the job change, but he's not as personally happy and is kicking his own butt for not paying attention to my complaints when he was still at a place where he enjoyed his job. I support him finding something else.

Everyone should listen to and address complaints. The only way that complaints become nagging is when the offending spouse doesn't care to address complaints. The way that complaints become conflict is when people refuse to find solutions. The way that conflict becomes emotional abuse is when the complainer becomes fed the eff up with being ignored.

Have not read the article, yet, though.

Dr. Harley says frequently that he wants husbands and wives to complain but not to be critical. In other words, communicate factually about the effect that your spouse's actions are having on your emotions, without disrespect, judgment, anger, or demands. i.e., "It bothers me when you come home late."

He also says that complaints should be solution/problem-solving oriented. The purpose is not to let your spouse have it, nor to punish them, nor to vent your emotions, but to initiate a rational, non-emotional discussion about what solutions to the problem will work.

He also says that most people get overwhelmed and discouraged if all complaints are brought out at once. There should be a few things to focus on at a time, the most important things (for the biggest effect, soonest). Otherwise your spouse begins to feel that they can never measure up, can never do enough, and they may feel demotivated to even try at all.

He says that if you do feel like your spouse will never be happy, no matter what you do, you should start addressing their complaints, because it is NOT true that complaints are really infinite. Keep solving problems, and eventually they will be done complaining!

He does go so far as to say keep a problem on the front burner and keep bringing it up if it is unsolved. Some might call that nagging. But it should be respectful and not critical, with no fault finding ("I asked you for this a long time ago!" "I never wanted this to happen!" etc.), and the conversation should drop if one of you gets so emotional that you can't discuss it in a problem solving way without demands, disrespect, or anger.

I have heard him tell some people to complain less, and some people to complain more. I think the people who dump too many problems on their spouse at once are told to do less, and the people who are not radically honest about what is bothering them are told to complain more.

Here's a radio show for you, Pep:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=26

Dr. Harley discusses complaints in churches. An article in the news is about a church leader declaring a moratorium on complaining in his church. Dr. Harley thinks church leadership ought to be open to complaints.

There's also the cute comment in here that most of the conflicts in the Harley marriage arise from Joyce's complaints.

I'm afraid I don't really have on on complaints in marriage, but they talk about that at least once a week.

I was accused by my WH(pre-A) of being a nagger. He told me to stop. What did I do? I wouldn't remind him about things. What happened? He would forget things and then ask me why I hadn't reminded him. I told him that I was only doing what he asked me to.

A lot of times, the word "nag" is bantered around about wives the way that "controlling" is with husbands. Seems to be the new buzz word.

Complaints are valid in a marriage. Nagging is most likely due to the nagger feeling unheard.

Did you read the link?
That's one of their points.

Yes I did read the link. I agree with that point.

I thought it was quite a funny way to make an appointment with her H by putting a post-it in his sandwich. Her H obviously took it differently.

I can see now how even things like this can be easily fixed by using MB principles. That's why I don't understand why it isn't everywhere, and why every couple isn't using it. Like it's some secret or something. POJA, and valid complaints with O&H would help a TONNE in this case. It's sad, honestly. It makes me happy to know that there are a TONNE of couples benefiting from DrH's books, coaching, etc.

Oops, I didn't read the article. Maybe I should do that.

My earlier internet days involved slashdot, where we used to have an acronym: RTFA. I'll let you guys work out what that one stood for.

I think it's important to distinguish between healthy complaining and nagging.

Absolutely, but who determines that it is nagging?

Warning, muppet brain posting. HEHEHEHE

I wish all our complaints in marriage were as simple as that article makes them.

Bill paying and lightbulb changing have very simple remedies, as laid out to us by SH: if a chore is important to you, do it yourself.

Most of the complaints coming into MB have nothing to do with mundane day to day tasks. That is why the non-intimates are not emphasized by the good doctor. If you are a spouse nagging your spouse over lightbulbs, free up your flipping time by changing it yourself, maybe with something red.

Don't go with black if you are married to and OCD'r, unless your intention is for them to clean everything, lol.

Evolve the question for your answer; who determines what a Love Buster is?

If you are relying on Disrespectful Judgments, Selfish Demands, or Angry Outbursts it is not complaining, it is nagging.

There is a HUGE difference between raising a complaint and employing Love Busters with your spouse, and no complaint justifies using Love Busters. Period. No. Complaint. Period.

I was actually thinking about this when I woke up this morning(see the effect you have on me Pep?).

Most nagging is probably done with DJ's. The main DJ being that you believe that the other person isn't going to do whatever it is you are asking them to do. You are making that assumption while you are making that "request."

The complaint may be that you are feeling unheard, or unimportant.

Just throwing this out there, to learn about myself. I am so selfish today.

Good morning Scotty.
I'm going to go do a crossword to wake up (with coffee).
Be back later.

I think this is probably pretty accurate.
So, instead of stating the actual complaint of feeling unimportant/unheard .... the "nag" keeps asking the recipient the same thing, in the same way, over, and over, and over. Getting the same response (ignored) over, and over, and over.
The recipient feels harangued and also feels disrespected and less motivated to pay attention.

This is very fixable using MB.

As are so many of the things that they tote out in the types of articles. It's weird being in the "know" after drinking the MB kool-aid.

It seems that what happens, is that as one's most important emotional needs go unmet, the less important needs float to the surface.

For instance, DS all of a sudden becomes more prevalent when Aff, AD, or SF go unmet.

Though, I think in some instances it may be a willful denial about those needs going unmet that leads one to focus on less important ones, or maybe ineffective complaints going unheard shifts the focus.

For instance, not getting enough affection becomes "you don't spend enough time with the children." Lack of SF becomes " the house is too messy."

I've seen posters refer to less important needs coming to the forefront when UA time isn't met.

Recognizing the pattern is the first important step.