Where to start... Contemplating divorcing my husband. I'll try to condense the story.

Met/started dating 4 years ago. Got married after 1.5 years of dating. Two months after we got married, I moved across the country for grad school (He refused to move there, b/c of the geographic location/lack of outdoor activities, even though w/his job, he could've easily made it work).

Early in our relationship, I realized something was wrong, and had a breakdown, and basically was crying, asking him "why he didn't think I was awesomer than he did". While he wasn't outright mean (per se), he was always very negative- maybe in a joking/sarcastic way, and rarely ever said anything nice/positive to me. I found the 5 love languages book, made him read it, and thought maybe it would get better. (mind you, this is after dating 5 months).

Fast forward to LDR in grad school. A year into school, we were having issues, and I called him crying, begging him to come visit me, I told him our marriage was in trouble, and to please come. He of course had a biking trip planned with his friend and choose that over me. (never, had I ever asked him before to give up an activity for me. Not once)

A month-ish later, I cheated on him. Two days later, I knew I had to tell him, b/c I didn't want to live in a marriage where there wasn't trust/honesty. So I flew back to where he lived and told him. I knew there was a good chance he'd divorce me. Told him everything, long story short, he forgave me and we really started working on our marriage.

All the issues came up: I saw it as him not loving me enough b/c he wouldn't move with me for school. He had been turning me down for sex basically since we met (after the initial few month honeymoon phase of sex). Came out that he'd been looking at a lot of porn, and apparently wasn't in the mood for me....It was a "classic" case of cheating. Husband doesn't appreciate wife, doesn't want to sleep with her much, never says anything nice, and is negative much of the time.

I graduated from school, moved back home...things are supposed to be great...but weren't really. Had to leave for a month for a work training thing and met this guy. You know where this is headed. We actually liked each other (as opposed to the first incident, which I think was just anger and feeling abandoned). We emailed for a bit after I got home, but we knew we couldn't keep talking.

I knew that if I was going to address whatever issues there are in my marriage, I can't do it with some other guy on the sidelines.

First off, I know that what I did was wrong. Whatever I am writing next, is in no way me trying to justify what I've done, but try to explain the relationship in an attempt to maybe get some advice/clarity. Please keep the mean comments to yourself.

I'm contemplating a divorce, not b/c of this other guy and I have an idea that being with him would be better. I know it doesn't work that way. But he is certainly a catalyst. For the past four years I've felt demeaned, belittled, unappreciated, unspecial, unatractive, unwanted, judged, etc. But it's all been in a very subtle way. My husband isn't a mean guy, he's just never had to work hard for a girl, I guess.

Basically, I feel like crap. And even though I can see my husband is sort of trying to change, I don't really feel it or believe it. I still love him a lot.

But I wonder, even if I can get over feeling like a piece of junk, there is still the issue I cheated on him again. And I do NOT plan to tell him about this 2nd time ever. Either we work it out, or we get divorced.

Part of me wonders if it is just better to get divorced, b/c that is probably/maybe what he would do if he knew. I know that even the worst marriages can be fixed with love/prayer/god, but I'm not even sure I want to try. I'm afraid of having kids (no kids now), and it not working then, I'm afraid of my kids getting their self worth/value degraded like I have. I've told husband all of this. He thinks I'm somewhat nuts about worrying about our future kids, but I see where his negativity comes from (his mom), and if it can be passed on to him, and then to me, it surely can make a kid feel like crap.

I know this post is sort of all over the place...I don't know exactly what I'm asking. I'm certainly not asking to be told what a terrible person I am for having cheated on my husband twice. I've read enough mean posts from people, that the message is heard loud and clear. I certainly never ever thought I'd be in the position, and I know I had my own judgmental thoughts about people that cheat. Pride goeth before a fall, apparently.

I guess I'm wondering if it's worth even trying to save. He says he's committed 100% to making our marriage work. He actually told me that he wasn't surprised I cheated on him b/c he had treated me crappy. He's trying to make up for the hurt I feel, but I'm having a hard time believing what he says. Or trusting it will be any different.

If you've come here to look for sympathy, you won't get any. What you will get is solutions, but first you need to decide if you want to save your marriage. You have to tell your husband the complete truth. Not what you want him to hear. Marriage Builders principles only work if you follow them completely. If you're serious about saving your marriage, the vets will come along to help you once you've given them the information they ask. Whether you choose to take the advice that is given will be up to you, but don't expect to be pampered. You need to face this. There is no excuse for adultery. No marriage is perfect. It takes work.

Hi Doro. I am also not a vet, please be patient as things are quiet on the weekends. They will arrive shortly. Meanwhile, I will post and I am sure the vets will correct me if I am wrong.

Firstly, please do not warn us not to write "mean posts". Sometimes the truth hurts... I and others will not pander to you as you have betrayed your husband's trust and committed adultery. Not once but twice. I am not going to whitewash that. You can interpret that as mean, I say it is the truth.

Now to work...

So you recognised after your first affair that you don't want to live in a a marriage where there wasn't trust / honesty. Honesty is an imporant emotional need for many, so well done on telling your BH.

But now, with a second affair that is not only physical but emotional...

Hmmm, so now you want to live in a marriage where there is no trust / honesty? A change from what you originally stated after the first affair. Marriages need honesty to survive. Please get a copy of His Needs Her Needs and Surviving an Affair pronto. Order them. And meanwhile keep reading as much as you can on this site. Inform yourself so you can make informed decisions.

Doro, what I hear is a lot about YOU. Not your BH.

Who are you to decide if your BH should hear the truth or not? Who are you to decide if you should divorce or not? Does your BH not deserve the truth to decide if he wants to work on the marriage or not?

I hear that you are scared to tell your BH in case he decides to divorce you. That is his right. As is hearing the truth about his life and marriage. Your words are all about YOU deciding if YOU want to work it out, or YOU want to get divorced. There is no WE if your BH does not even know the truth. Your marriage can not survive without the truth.

Doro, your post reeks of entitlement. There is very little in here that is not you justifying why is is ok to betray your husband. As GJM pointed out, you will not get sympathy here. There is no acceptable reason for adultery.

I hope you are strong enough to stick this out and have your thinking challenged.

Any chance you could have stayed where he was for your studies? Dr H knows that overnight stays away from your spouse are a recipe for affairs.

Ummm, didn't you ask him to move across the country for you? Regardless, you are both living independent lives, a recipe for affairs. Both of you are indulging in independent behaviour (IB).


Lets not gloss over this, which you seem to want to do. How long were you back home with your BH? Before you went on training?

And where is this headed? You say you "liked" him, and emailed for a bit but knew you couldnt' keep talking. When did you last talk / email / have any form of contact with him?


Exactly. So when was your last contact with OM?

You placed your education above your marriage, and you are surprised your husband isn't at your feet?

There has been no marriage. You never committed to it.

For catalyst - read 'reason'. He is the reason.

Not your H not being 'nice' enough. If there really were problems in the marriage you would not need 'catalysts' to see them.

Besides which, the hurtful actions in your marriage have all come from you.

First, you are a serial cheat.

Secondly you violated the POJA agreement by moving without him.

POJA dictates that no decisions should be made without the enthusaistic agreement of both spouses. No agreement, then you cant do it.

But you are only worried about yourself.

If your h were on here I would tell him you were not safe to trust, becuse you talk more about how he wont let you violate POJA than you do about regret for the incredible attack you have wrought on him by cheating on him again and again.

Exactly how do you think this FEELS?

Oh and his agreeing he has treated you like cr''p? Has it not occured to you that you simply crushed him with your actions and emotionally blackmailed him into just agreeing with whatever you say? We see it on here all the time. Good people desperate to keep hold of the cheating, unworthy spouse, because they love them and are COMMITTED.

Go NC with OM and commit to your marriage or do your H a favour and leave him alone for good.

Here, let me fix this for you:

"It was a classic case of cheating: wife enters union with a fairy-tale view of what marriage should be; wife assumes husband sees marriage same way; wife never talks to husband or gets his view on things, just expects him to conform to her fantasy; wife is too dense to realize that such emasculation of her husband makes her as sexually-appealing to him as five-day-old Georgia road-kill, so doesn't understand lack of intimacy; wife also too dense to realize that Disney has exclusive rights to all marriages that survive long-term separation; wife's terminal density exacerbates her juvenile sense of entitlement which results in her going heels-up for the first sapola with 5 minutes of conversation and 5 bucks for a drink; wife comes to MB forum looking for support and justification while watching her former fairy-tale life circling the drain; wife finds out MB forum doesn't roll like that; wife forced to face reality for maybe first time in her life."

There. That reads much more like the "classic" case we see from WW's on this board.

To the point:

You were wrong to have an affair.

You were wrong to marry your BH for he is not the man for you.

What to do.

Divorce BH.

Get into IC so you become mentally healthy and learn not to have any more affairs.

Then re enter the dating world.

WRONG.

She is not the WOMAN to be the wife of ANY man.

She married, and then immediately ditched him and expected he would just follow her because of "unconditional love" or some such drivel.

She ignored his feelings in the decisions SHE made that affected them BOTH, and is attempting to villainize him to justify her own selfishness.

And now that she has cheated MULTIPLE times, she feels she is "entitled" to divorce her husband because SHE has made a wreck of their marriage.

No.

Lets put on some big girl panties and own up.

I know this post is sort of all over the place...I don't know exactly what I'm asking.

No, actually you know exactly what it is you want from this site, whether or not you have the courage at the time you wrote your note to address it. Please do us all a favor, examine your feelings toward BH and the "other" possibilities in your life, and ask the question.

I completely agree. Married people cant just up sticks and move when they want and they certaintly cant sleep with whoever thay want!

Shes a little girl who doesnt understand that marriage will require hard work and co-ordination from her,

What she wants is slavish devotion, not marriage.

ANd OM are excellent at dishing that out.

For a bit.

Doro, speaking to you here as a man who had an affair, I can tell you that if you're sincerely interested in saving your marriage, then it can be done.

It can't be done the way you say you've been trying to go about it so far, however.

So if you want to inch closer to seeing things as they are, read on. If you're just, deep-down, looking for some anonymous, internet-forum strangers' validation & blessing to ditch your husband (or to maintain a lifelong deception toward him), then you won't find that here. This is MarriageBuilders, and it's about saving marriages -- even those marriages which people like me & you have driven into ditches.

None of what I'm saying should be read as being harsh. Remember, I've walked in your shoes, a little bit anyway. Have an open mind and maybe hear a few things you might be overlooking:
Food for thought: Why mightn't this be looked at as "I left my husband after 2 months of marriage to go to grad school across the country when I could've easily made it work to go to school close to home so that I could stay with my husband" ?

And, Doro, as long as you keep the secret about Guy#2, you're still keeping him in your back pocket, on the sidelines, as an option somewhere in your mind. You do realize that, right? Be honest with yourself.

But you don't love him even enough to be honest with him about Guy#2? I know... I also felt like crap much of the time when I was in my affair. Trying to feel good about yourself when, deep down, you know you're acting rottenly, is a hard circle to square.

Just typing it doesn't make you humble, Doro. Fessing up and letting your husband know the truth -- giving him significant facts about his own marriage and giving him the bare-minimum courtesy of allowing him to make his own choices based on truth, not on a deception, is the beginning of humility. Don't fool yourself into thinking you're there now. Maybe you were there after Guy#1, or maybe not -- I can't know. But you're not there now.

So, you want him to be all-in, but you're not all-in enough to be honest with him? You want to feel you can believe & trust him, yet you foster a facade (which is to say, a deception) every minute of every day toward him with respect to your own mindsent & recent conduct? Wouldn't you say pride remains at work, just speaking objectively here? Maybe when we're in the latrine, we each think everyone else's stinks more than our own, but then we wouldn't be judging objectively, would we? That's your pride "goeth-ing" before better judgement.

Doro, don't you see, it's your marriage, not some used car. It's like a living thing, not an object -- if nurtured, it will thrive, and if neglected, it will suffer, wither and perhaps die. When you're trying to save a marriage, the way you start is, you act to start saving it.

There's not an easy map forward for you guys. Saving your marriage will take hard work, and it'll take both of you being all-in. If you don't proceed on a basis of Radical Honesty (read about it on this site), then you'll never get where you want to be, and you'll never be able to look back & honestly tell yourself that you gave it your last, best shot.

Something for you to think about.

Couldnt agree more. The marriage will thrive if you feed and nurture it. Right now it is being starved.

The grass is not greener on the other side, it is greener where you water it.

DoroM,

Assignment;

Tell us why your husband shouldn't leave your butt on the curb, TODAY.

The first thing you should do is tell your husband the truth. He needs to know about the affair so he can make the decision if he wants stay married. And he may wisely decide there is nothing here to save and move on. You can't ever recover a marriage based on lies, trickery and fraud. So it may not even be an option for you if your husband decides to end the marriage. You are no prize, dear, and he has right to know the damaged goods he could get stuck with.

The news of your second affair is information about his life that he has right to know. You have no right to withhold it from him. To do so is manipulative and dangerous. He has a right to choose whether he stays in the marriage or not.

And no, you won't get over feeling like crap until you stop acting like crap. Lying is crappy. Cheating is crappy.

Your attitude means you are mentally well on your way to divorce .... and then shopping around for your NEXT X-husband.

You're going to be one of those women who has 3-4 ex-husbands.

Unless .......... You do some studying of the Marriage Builders Basic Concepts.

Summary of Dr Harley's Basic Concepts <~~~ LINK

You know ZERO about how to maintain a healthy marriage.

You can change for the better.
Are you willing?

LINK to thread ... read TrueHeart's letter (first post)

An excerpt:

Define what you mean by "mean comments" ..... and I will consider your request.

I'm curious to see if she comes back.

Thank you for all the replies- I didn't realize they had moved it to a different forum...I was wondering why no one had replied in the other forum.

A little clarification on the back story. We had been dating only a few months when I started looking at grad schools. No, there was no program close to where we lived. He supported me in going to school. Yes, I asked(begged) him to move with me. He has a job where he flies completely free, and could've easily worked closer to where I was in school. He refused.

There is not one thing you guys have said that I haven't already thought myself.

I didn't come here to look for sympathy and/or justification, I knew better than that. I came here to get an objective (and you guys are nothing, if not objective) and at least somewhat respectful opinion that I know is hard to get from people who will only tell you what you want to hear.

I came here sort of as a last ditch effort because I'm not ready to give up on my marriage. I'll try to figure out how to reply to individual posts.