Please share your opinion....

Back-story -
Married 11 years, because of arguments she has moved out twice, left town once. She's strong willed independent, has always been very quick to call it quits. Long history of refusing to listen to and/or respect me (h).

Couple of months ago -
We agree to give marriage another chance and she is to move back in to marital home from town-home she owns. Because of her flightiness I decide ahead of time that I am not going to pay towards this move.

2 weeks prior to move she asks me to help, I relent and give her $200. She said that she already paid $200 deposit.

Day of move - She wants to know if I will pay the rest of the bill. She thinks it will be another $200 based on a total of 4 hrs. As the 4th hour arrives and it is clear that the bill will be much larger than anyone thought. She mentions tippng the movers and I pull out $30 I set aside for the tip. I find out that she has $100 that she plans to tip the movers. I told her that $100 is a very very large tip considering our circumstances. I told her that the $30 I had was reasonable and they would appreciate it. I told her $50 is a very good tip and that $100 is way over the top. 5th hour arrives and I tell her as the cost of this moves skyrockets, the amount of her planned tip needs to decrease. She says that maybe they will give her a break on the bill and she'll figure out the tip then. 6th hr arrives and I end up charging the balance of another $500 on my CC. After she is done with the transaction, I ask her how much she tipped and found that she tipped the $100 anyway.

I told her that I am disappointed that at the very first opportunity for her to listen and compromise she refused to do so. She told me not to ask her anything about it. I told her that it appears nothing has changed as far as her behavior towards me. Since almost always refuses to listen to me I asked her to ask anyone else about this scenario and see what they have to see, she told me that she would not. So basically she is telling me that she is doing what she wants and what I or anyone else thinks doesn't matter. She goes into her typical tantrum with the cursing and name calling. She talks about my family. She showed me her lack of commitment again, saying that she wants to go back to the townhouse where she was. She accuses me of purposely waiting and conspiring to get her [censored] (things). She later apologizes for what she said.

Next day following move -
Unpacking continues. She asks if I am happy to have her back. I gave her the truth. I told her that from what I experienced yesterday I don't think that she even needs to be married. She did not like that and stopped unpacking. I left for church. After church I call and ask if she wants me to bring her anything. She declines and tells me she is at the townhouse cleaning. I go home and get the things needed to patch the walls at the townhouse. I arrive at the townhouse and my help was rejected. I returned home. Later she returned and told me that she is leaving and wants a divorce this time.

2nd day after move -
After I return from church she is repacking her stuff. I told her that I would do whatever she wanted me to do. She throws a new tantrum with all the usual stuff plus new twists. She says that she is going to give everything away to the neighbors. That she'll put it on the street in front of the house. I told her that I would pay for everything to be moved right back from where it came. I told her that I would move her bed back myself if that's what she wanted. She refused everything I offered. Then she says that she is going to get neighbors to help her get her things. She goes to a neighbor and cries and sobs and complains about me. She again rejects my offer to move the bed back. She said that she would rather have a stranger help her. After many rejections I end up putting her file cabinet in her car, she takes the contents of her desk in plastic bags and storms away for the townhouse saying she is going to sleep on the floor.
A few minutes later I go to the townhouse anyway to take the file cabinet in. I figured I would stay on the floor with her. She does not open the door. I go back home and after several calls she answers and rejects my offer to bring her anything at all. I told her that the sofa she wanted to get rid of sold for $163 and she could get the money when she wanted it, but I'm not sure she digested this through the venom. I asked her to come back and sleep in the bed. She refused and I told her that sleeping there on the floor with nothing does not make you a scientist. She stated that she is abandoning this huge amount of stuff that she brought here and that she would get her money back through the divorce. It's clear that she is using this to buy all brand new stuff.

Today -
She called and said that when things cool down she wants to get some of her personal clothing items and is leaving everything else. I again asked her to returned here and behave with some normality, she again refused. I told her that I do not want the enormous amount of stuff that she brought here (boxes every where, a huge amount of decorative items, enough art for several houses, furniture, t.v.'s and much more). I told her that she is the only one that needs a cool down and I am ready to bring her whatever she wants right away. I told her I am not fighting and I have indeed kept my cool (thank the lord). She said she would call me later.

My question is....did I go wrong?

Yes you went wrong.

1. If you are not enthusiastic about something, don't do it. If you didn't want to pay for the movers, don't pay. You did and it built up resentment.

2. Your comments were very disrespectful. They may be 100% true, yet if your goal is a marriage with this woman, you proably are not helping your cause.

Your comment about her not being marriage material for anyone (my paraphrase) is a Disrespectful Judgement. It's a destroyer of romantic love.

I wonder if EITHER of you are good partners. If you don't have the backbone to say no to things you are not enthusiastic about, don't take it out on her later with comments such as the one you made the next day.

I'm not saying her behavior will win any good citizen awards here. What I'm saying is the only thing you can concentrate on is your behavior.

If you are asking for advice, my advice is to work on your behavior and see if she works on hers. If you are making progress and she's not, then you have a decision to make.

But right now, I think you have enough to work on without being too concerned about her faults.

One of two things will likely happen as you become a better spouse. She'll be motivated to be a better spouse or she'll find the environment unappealing as she will no longer be able to bend you to her will and she'll want out forever.

While it may not see so now, both are better than where you are today, IMO.

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate your insight.

I had no problem paying the movers. Even though it was a surprise. My problem was she would not budge an inch on this big tip. It could have went toward the bill.

I still have huge problems with her complete refusal to compromise and the belligerence I got when I suggested that it is a continuance of a long term marital problem. On the first day of our supposed rejoining. By the way I just figured out what IB is and she has a lot of it.

My comment was not helpful, but I feel very true. Are you suggesting I should not have said it at all? Please note that is the only negative thing I said and that many insulting and disrespectful things were said to me. I kept my cool. And I am definitely working on me. That's why I am writing. Not just to be validated.

This is not enthusiastic agreement. Saying yes lead to resentment.

Instead of trying to get her to "compromise" (which it is clear from your post means 'do it your way'), your goal should be to reach mutual agreement.

Where you are both happy, and neither feels like they have "compromised".

You sold her sofa?

You certainly 'did wrong'...calling her flighty, telling her to get second opinions on how RIGHT you are and how WRONG she is, there is so much disrespect in your post and honestly YOU sound like someone who has to have things YOUR way or you pitch a fit. Work on trying to be part of a partnership instead.

O.K. I get it. I learned my lesson. I did think after the fact that I could have just told her if you want me to pay it, then that $100 bucks is going towards it and I'll handle the tip. I did not do it that way because I wanted to have faith that she would show me some sign that she is listening and compromising, instead I got a tantrum.

It seems you are suggesting that I am the only one who is out of line here. I think listening and compromise is important to marriage and that is what led to my comment. I was only commenting on our marriage because of what happened and because practically every argument we have develops into a full tantrum that includes her stating that she doesn't want to be with me, made a mistake marrying me, is going to run way or some version. I feel I am married to the least committed person in the universe.

I appreciate your reply. I am learning from the folks on this board and I am working on me. However I think you are reading me wrong and being judgmental. I tried at least 4 times during that day to get her to compromise. There is a lot of room between the $30 I suggested and the $100 she was determined to give. Any compromise would have been a good sign to me.

Secondly the fact is that she is flighty. My take from what I am learning here is that the truth should not be stated. Or perhaps somone can suggest better ways they can be stated.

As to the sofa part, she wanted me to sell it, badly. We were merging 2 households. So I sold it and I won't keep any part of that money. So that is one tiny success here.

That's a heavy assumption on your part. I am not looking for validation on my rightness. I am on this board learning about my rightness and my wrongness with an open mind. As a result of my conversation here I just called her and apologized for my comments (true or not).

She is not likely to seek opinions from this type of source. Are you suggesting that her mind be closed? I think it is a good idea that she seek other opinions somewhere, because there have been plenty of times that she outright refuses to listen to me. I can take the results.

I dearly want a partnership, it's not so easy with a no compromise, no listen person.

Also you missed the part about me keeping my cool, I have.

Can you see the difference between saying, "It makes me feel unsettled when concrete plans are not made in advance"

and

"She's flighty"?

You two do not have children? But you do have a long marriage. How much of those 11 years have you physically lived apart?

Do either of you travel for work?

When you are together, how much time do you spend together? What do you do with that time?

I am not suggesting that she have a closed mind (that is ridiculous). It is not going to help you save your marriage to go around educating her about how to become educated. Is it?

(I can say some bitterly nasty things while remaining completely cool. Oddly, those are the zingers that hurt the worst. Think about it.)

I apologize but I do not see your point about flighty. I do realize that I may be using the wrong word. What I mean is she is very prone to choose to leave at the first hint of a problem.

There are 2 grown step-daughters and we've been apart about 6 months.

There is no work travel. We work different shifts and most of the time we are together are spent with our gran-daughter or watching a movie, occasionally eating out, etc.

About educating on becoming educated.....I should do nothing, say nothing, hope for the best?

I know what you mean about how words are used. I have not indulged in any of that. I have kept my cool and been genuine.

Nope, I'm not suggesting anything.

She is not here, so I could tell you what she needs to do, etc. But what good would that do? She's not here to read it.

You are here. So I'm giving you instructions.

Read the stuff on the main site. Learn about the Policy of Joint Agreement. Compromise doesn't work. What works is finding solutions you BOTH are enthusiastic about. If she (or you) just wears the other down until they say yes to something, it's a win-lose proposition. It destroys romantic love.

But don't take it from me, search the main site and learn about things such as Love Busters, The Policy of Joint Agreement, and how to meet Emotional Needs.

The best scenario is that both you work on those things. The problem is, trying to educate your spouse CAN be a love buster. So while you goal may be to build romantic love, educating her may do just the opposite.

Just like your goal with the compromise (giving in really based on your account) was to build romantic love, the opposite occurred.

So if it seems I'm saying only you need to change, you are not getting my message. What I know is it does me little good to talk about what she needs to change if she's not here asking what she should do.

Got it?

I understand my faults.

I have to ask directly. Am I having a problem with nothing? There have been no comments about her refusal to compromise. The message or non-message I am getting here is do not expect compromise. What about tantrums, insults or any of that. Please comment.

[/quote]

Yea, for the most part I think I got it. "trying to educate your spouse CAN be a love buster." is very true in this case.

I still don't think that compromise was much to ask, but I evidently am not the brightest crayon in the box. I am a tad brighter thanks to this conversation.

Thanks

There should be NO compromising. In other words no gaining at the others expense. EX: If you do this for me today I will do that for you tomorrow. THAT kind of negotiating will only create resentment.

The SOLUTION is to follow the policy of joint agreement. NEVER do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse.

SINCE you two didnt have any sort of enthusiastic agreement the answer would have been do nothing until BOTH of you were satisfied with the answer.

Read the policy of joint agreement in the BASICS section of the website. You will find the link located on the left column after you click BASICS in the menu at the top of the screen.

MNG

We cannot decide for you what behavior you will tolerate and what behavior is unacceptable to you in your marriage.

You have to make that decision.

It doesn't sound like you enjoy, appreciate, or cherish those behaviors.

If someone described this situation to you and asked what you would do, what would you tell them?

The solution to this is more about what you will do. What will you tolerate? What boundaries will you enforce? What will you accept? What do you find intolerable?

If I were to put my thinking cap on, I would probably determine that she does these things because they work for her.

The question is, do they work for you?

It sounds to me like you know the answer.

Only you can decide what you will tolerate, what you will live with, and what you will accept.

Once you decide that, think long and hard before you compromise those values. Because based on the experiences you describe, once a boundary is breached, she'll keep trying to breach it, and you'll build more and more resentment.

Your job is to decide what behavior you'll tolerate, and what is unacceptable, and what to do if you are on the receiving end of unacceptable behavior.

One example may be the next tantrum she throws and walks out, you explain that if she walks out, there is no returning for her, that you find this behavior unacceptable and you refuse to live in a revolving door marriage.

Then hold your boundary.

I think much of the problem is she can wear you down. You've not described someone who appears able to use the POJA to negotiate win-win agreements.

Is that how you want to live your marriage?

I can't answer this. Only you can answer this question.

The different shifts would need to be remedied so that you can spend at least 20 hours a week alone together meeting the needs of affection, conversation, sexual fulfillment and recreational companionship.

Without that, you are more like single people who happen to have a spouse somewhere. Marriage needs for the two people in it to be the center of their lives, and work and grandkids and all that being on the outside, fit in around your central marriage time.

You do not have any children? How old are you two? How many marriages each?

No, you are not having a problem with nothing. Like EE said, we can't make her do anything, she is not here. We can help you get off her case and focus on being a great option for her, though.

Don't worry, nobody here likes a doormat and we would not advise you to become such. No woman likes that in a man she is in love with.

First, we have to get her in love with you, and for that she needs to be able to trust that you will look after your combined best interest. Not hers, not yours, but the interest of the marriage.