I'm sorry- When I said it wasn't an issue, I meant that he wasn't watching it anymore. Since it came out, there was one time in the 1.5 years that he told me he had started to watch and then stopped. I haven't asked him about it in a long time, because of the fact that I could see the difference in our intimacy.

Saw BH briefly today at the house. He said he had read this thread last night, said he was glad I had found this place, etc, so I could work on myself (said I needed to work on myself w/o just thinking about him). He said I needed someone to keep me accountable (which i had thought of last night, but only after I had sent EP list).

I talked with Harley today- was good, talked about boundries, and areas that I'm affected. I'm outgoing/spontaneous etc, and I've been dropping my guard.

I left our house today to go to one of my best friend's house (would've left sooner, but she was out of town and I was watching her dog at my house). Anyway, I'm basically staying here till I can fly back to parents house for my surgery. After I told BH I would leave, he called me and told me I didn't have to if I wanted to stay there b/c he'd be working during the day for the next few days. I said I didn't want to put him out of his house any longer.

I am wondering if I'm being selfish by wanting/making it known to him that I want this to work, knowing the pain (although I'll never understand it), that he's gone/going through. Obviously, I know he has the final say in the matter, and he's not going to do anything he doesn't want to do, but is it selfish for me to want him to face that pain and go through the hard work of fixing our marriage? I'm not sure if that makes sense or not.

Also, have been looking for jobs in our state (as opposed to commuting to work in different state as I was doing), Have emailed pretty much everyone I know (and some I don't), in my field and not much luck so far. Granted I can't work for 5-7 weeks anyways b/c of my leg, so I've got some time...

But I would appreciate some prayer about the job situation.

Doro, marriage isn't a philanthropic calling. We get married because we have things that we want to share & give, but also because we have needs that we want to have met. If that's selfish, so be it.

When selfishness gets us in trouble is when we let our needs take precedence over protecting our spouse, spending time with him/her, caring for him/her, and being honest with him/her. Where it gets us in trouble is where, in order to avoid difficult conversations, we fail to make our top needs known because it's easier/simpler to get them met through activities or people other than our spouse. (Laziness being one form of selfishness.)

On the day 3 years ago when I came clean to my wife about my affair and got on my knees and begged her to please keep me, was I being selfish? Heck yeah! I didn't know at that point what it might take to save & recover our marriage. I didn't know if she'd even be up for that. I didn't know what was going to happen each next day. I had told the OW that it was over, but I hadn't even sewed up no-contact, and hadn't told my wife all that she wanted to know about the affair. She didn't even know then what she would want to know in the weeks & months ahead. We had yet to get to a place where we could discuss each other's emotional needs and what we both needed to try & do in order to make our marriage better than it had been before the affair. I didn't even know what I didn't know, when it came to what it takes to bring a grievously wounded marriage back to life.

All I knew on that first "D-Day" was that, no matter what minor faults or shortcomings my wife may have had (and we all have shortcomings), there was nothing she'd done that deserved how I'd just made her feel when she found out that I'd betrayed her. I knew that, and I knew that if at all possible, I wanted to save our marriage. Those two things were about all I knew.

Sure, it was selfish of me -- but it was the right thing.

Of course, my wife had to decide on her own if it was right for her, too. I couldn't decide for her. And likewise, you can't decide for your husband -- you can't decide for him what's right for him, and you can't expect him to decide quickly (that, indeed, would be a self-defeating selfishness on your part), or to even know what he wants to do himself. All you can do is tell him, and so far as you're able, show him, via actions, that you know you've messed up bad & that you never want to mess up this way again. You bear an extra-high burden of proof from having strayed twice.

So you show him your EPs. You change your phone #s & emails addys, you ditch the Facebook, you share passwords, you keep him posted on your whereabouts, you call to ask how he's doing, you give him space if he wants to be out alone, you be there if he wants you with him, and you let him call the shots for now. If he asks you questions, you answer without any purpose of evasion; and if he wants to rant at you about what you did, you take it meekly, you own it, and you say you're sorry. Yes, there'll be a time when, if you're to rebuild the marriage successfully, back to what you dreamed of on the day you traded rings, to something better than it's ever been before, then he'll have to come around to be willing to dig into what ways he can learn to be better at learning & meeting your needs too; but right now's not the time to press him on that. For him to even want to get to where he's all-in, he needs time & actions from you in order to help give him the chance to believe that you might finally be all-in.

Get "Surviving An Affair." Read it without him since I doubt he'll want to start reading it himself, but leave it lying around and offer it to him if he asks about it. It's a book that my wife & would both tell you may well have saved our marriage, and I don't get a cent for saying so.

Nothing worth having is ever easy. I think the odds are still against your getting a 2nd (actually, 3rd) chance, but the only way you can buck those odds is to fight for your marriage & be all-in.

We just passed our 3rd "anniversary" of that awful day. It has been more than a year since we have even spoken of the affair. We learned from the experience, although neither of us would ever want to repeat it, and we have drawn so much closer to one another these past three years. I'm here to tell you (and your husband, if he's peeking) that it is possible. So don't you quit. Not yet.

Good luck with the job. Hang in there.

Those two things are about all I'm sure about. I guess I'm just extra sensitive to do anything that might hurt him more. Thanks for the perspective.
Ordered the book (2 of them actually), just waiting for it to arrive. I'm still fighting.

I'm glad you are still fighting. You certainly have come a long way in the short time that you have been here. I wish my WW was as committed to fighting for our marriage. It's admirable so keep it up. Like many have said already. You may not get your BH back, but you will come out a better person.

No because you have empowered him with a choice.

Back when I thought it was impossible my H would ever have an affair I always thought that the remote possibility would involve a one-off drunken slip - and his begging me for a chance of forgiveness.

The reality was he had hardened to the point he didnt want me, honesty, to admit liability - or be part of the marriage.

I had no choice. I would have liked one. Even if it had been no.

I agree with Indie. I think by giving him a choice you are helping him with healing. You have wronged him, and you are trying to make amends and show remorse. For me, the lack of choice and remorse made me feel my pain was nothing to my WH.

When the BS does not have any choice, I think it is salt in the wound.

It may be a small consolation to your BH, but you were destined to fail and stray again after your first affair because neither one of you took the steps necessary to fix what led you to stray in the first place.

But you�re here, you�re listening, and you�re willing to do the work.

A marriage works when both partners give fully of themselves into the marriage and it doesn�t feel like they�re giving anything in the process. They WANT to give to the other person.

In other works, it�s work that doesn�t feel like work.

Has your BH given any hint about which way he�s leaning right now?

Well, I think my 'short time' here should really be looked at like Dog Years. For the past 2.5 weeks, I've been able to do NOTHING but sit on the couch (I lie..sometimes I hobble over to the recliner) It has given a lot of time for thought. Normal people have lives and stuff they are busy doing, which might allow them to push hard thoughts out of their head.

I broke my leg about 2.5 weeks ago. Even though at that time, I wasn't communicating w/OM, I was still what you guys call 'quite foggy'. In my mind, there was no chance in He**, I was going to tell BH what happened. I thought the only option was to divorce (and then in my head, I had somehow allowed myself to believe that life would be SO much better if I was divorced) I focused on all the negative things my BH did/does, and not on any of the good ones(quite like that quote someone posted on my thread).

Early in the am, I went to start my car b/c it had snowed. I was running back inside b/c I didn't realize there was a full layer of ice under the snow. I slipped, and as I was falling, I heard my leg crack. As I was laying there in the dark, with my face on the driveway, I was so mad, "God! How on earth could you allow me to break my leg!" It was in my mind literally, not allowing me to run away.

About a week after I did it, I found out I'd need surgery (which would delay recovery another 4-6weeks). My mom knew I was very bummed about surgery and sent me an email that said this:
"God must have a reason for allowing this surgery, so let's just pray that you might not miss what it might be. He surely must be slowing you down /allowing you to be slowed down for a reason. Try not to waste it."

Of course, I was like, "whatever". I had plenty of time to think about things, and I remember telling God (not asking, not really praying, but telling) that I knew he had the power to change my hard heart, b/c he had done it to Pharoah, but I wasn't going to do a thing. I was pretty set on my way to destruction.

I had gotten into a fight w/BH about how I didn't feel like he cared about me/didn't take care of me. The next day, he bought me flowers/etc, and I remember thinking/scoffing, "oh, am I supposed to be bought so easily?" But it did cause a little chip on my heart. I went to see an IC that week, who all but validated my reasons for having affair (I wasn't feeling loved, I wasn't getting this or that, etc). Never once made me accountable for my actions. Never once told me I should tell my BH. Pretty much said, that sometimes divorce is better.

After that meeting, I just didn't feel right. It felt wrong to my core. A few days later was when I came across MB and posted the first time. I knew there was just a sliver of me that wanted to do the right thing. I'm thankful for the people who called me out.

But yeah, in dog years- I've been here for like 6 weeks. So I'm not sure how admirable that is. And it makes me sad to think it took a broken leg and a bunch of strangers on the internet who don't mince their words to wake me up.

But I'm trying, and I'm thankful for your help and encouragement.

To be honest, he hasn't talked to me much about anything. He did say it was unfortunate we were still financially tied together. I'm pretty sure he's still leaning to D.

It's still early and the shock is still there for him. I wouldn't try to guess how he's feeling or which way he's leaning. Keep working on you. I like to believe that things can always change for the better. Hang in there.

I slipped, and as I was falling, I heard my leg crack.
As I was laying there in the dark, with my face on the
driveway, I was so mad, "God! How on earth could you
allow me to break my leg!"

Where is Caravaggio to render this with the proper
chiaroscuro illumination technique?

Please do not take my comment for mockery, or disbelief,
DoroM. On the contrary, my off-repeated opinion is that
far from not having miracles today, what modern culture
has is a marked aversion to giving credence to the many
miracles that do occur.

If it took a snapped leg-bone to bring about the self-
examination that eventually led you here...well, bones
heal.

Doro, you say it was a 'only a little sliver' of you that wanted to do the right thing but that sliver did not give up until it found advice it DID like.

There are tonnes of websites, too, that excuse cheating and blame it all on the marriage and the BS - just like your IC did. You could have tried to ease your mind with one of those. So many do and succeed.

Even after you came here. You didnt have to listen. I have only been on here six months. Do you have any idea how many WWs come on here looking for tea and sympathy, but are told the truth and run off scared.

I was pretty certain after you signed up that first day, that we would never hear from you again.

Because that's what usually happens.

The truth will out, that all. A [censored] of the conscience in the brain is like a grain of sand in an oyster, which irritates and rubs and so is forced to form a pearl.

Dont take this the wrong way, but I think it is awesome you broke your leg!

DM, you asked God to answer a prayer, and he did. I too was praying and praying for help for my marriage. I had done MANY searches for marital help. I never found anything that made sense to me. And then, on October 30, 2009, I typed these words into google, "How to survive your husband's affair." BOOM. Right sat the TOP, Marriage Builders. I read, and read, and then posted a couple of weeks later, and as they say, the rest is history. MB is the answer to the prayers of MANY.

Now, I am a little weary. I want to make sure that you keep at your recovery. Whether your marriage recovers or not, you don't want to stay a wayward, and MB can help you have a better next marriage(either this one if you are able to save it, or a new one if you can't). Stick with it. You're doing very well.

Talked with the BH this morning for a while. He said if/when he even thinks about possibly making it work, he gets angry at himself. Says it just not worth it.

He said there was a 0.1% chance that it work, and that's only leaving it open to God and miracles. I told him I'd take that chance and keep praying.

He did agree to talk with Harley, so I think that will happen today or tomorrow. I read SAA last night, going to leave it here for him, in case he is curious.

I think him agreeing to talk with Dr Harley will increase your chances significantly and I'm rooting for you guys.

Doro --

I was also a WW - and I fully credit MB for restoring me.
Back to realizing that I wanted to live my life with values and integrity.

I think you are fully seeing God's answer.

There isn't a better group of people anywhere. They will tell you when you're not thinking right.

I just hope your BH will take his time. Its wonderful that he is going to talk to Steve Harley. Now is not the time to make any decisions. His emotions are likely all over the board.

Just keep working on your side of the fence.

Doro,

Let Steve Harley do his magic, let him be the reason and logic......
I agree be the best you can be, and be willing to listen and encourage your husband.......

As we have said, it all boils down to your BHs choice.

Talking to Steve, someone neutral who understand how to prevent affairs and how to recover marriages, will help him weigh out the pros and cons of that choice logically.

Recovery is not easy and Steve can explain that. But it is possible.

Steve will also remind him that there's no need to decide today.

He can allow you to make it up to him for just one day, then decide the next if he is going to carry on letting you make amends, for a second day and so on.

Until he can see whether something is being built besides resentment. Which, if you are doing the right things, there will be.

YAY for your BH. That is AWESOME. Doesn't mean he needs to be 100% on board, but even looking at it as a slight possibility is better than nothing. As long as you commit to being the best person you can be with high morals, and you make for the harm you caused your BH, you will do GREAT.

It's a lot of work, but it is well worth it.