I am two months into recovery after WH's EA and PA that lasted for 6 months. WH separated from me for almost a month before returning home for "the sake of the kids" as he claimed (1 week post exposure). A NC letter was sent and I have implemented all available means to control if and when any contact occurs.

WH is now beginning to open up with the details of A and here is the problem (and I am not kidding). He claims that OW has "special" powers: e.g. controlling his thought process and the ability to see the future. Apparently the A was largely based on a spiritual/cosmic bond with a belief that they were together in a previous life. He claims, that she has the ability of both healing and harming people and because I exposed the A to her family and terminated it, she will be trying to "harm" me (and I have been getting strange headaches lately).

He claims that he is largely a victim of her "cosmic powers" which precluded him from seening the true implications of him abandoning me and my family. Nevertheless, he is reluctant to totally renounce the A. He only regrets the pain that the A caused me and the kids.

I have read the MB recovery plan, however it is very difficult for me to be the constant "giver" while he bemoans the loss of his true soul mate. As I am finding out more about the details, I am losing all hope that we could ever recover. The A has set a very high standard that, I fear, he would never be able to achieve with me, especially in view of OW's "spiritual connection." He claims that she still "controls" him by inserting herself into his subconscience in the form of dreams.

There has been some improvement in our relationship but after knowing the details of A, I keep thinking that I have settled for some crumbs, while she enjoyed the feast.

We are both in our early 50s and have been married for nearly 2 decades. OW is married but estranged from her husband. Both WH and OW work for the same large employer. WH has transferred to another department but she seems to be "stalking" him in public places at work occassionally. He is in the process of looking for a job in a different state. In the meantime, he is walking on eggshells not knowing what to expect from her. He fears she might seek confrontation of some sort since she probably knows that NC letter was written by him under duress and she didn't hear it from him directly. He keeps talking about her not being able to reach closure and move on. I am appalled by him caring about her feelings now, as I know he did not give the same consideration of my feelings when he chose to leave me. So this constant comparison of what he did for her and what he failed and continues to fail to do for me is making my wounds bleed. He wants me to give him more time, but, frankly, I am running out of patience.

Would be grateful for any advice and hope.

I knew before I got to this part that they were still in contact based on your description. This is the problem. Every time he sees her he is triggered and goes back to Day 1 of recovery. He is still high on the affair addiction. This really is hopeless until he gets out of there. Sorry.

Have you spoken to her husband personally?

Yes, I have. OWH desperately wants her back and has fogiven her everything. She is in complete control of her relationship with her H. OWH is a total puppet in her hands. She was on a verge of a divorce, before A,and now, she might be proceeding with it, I am not sure. Maybe by stalking she is trying to communicate to my H that she is available now?

H is fulfilling the condition of complete transparency to a T, including sharing of his thoughts and dreams. Now, I am not sure if this is such a good idea, because it seems that all of our UA time is spent discussing OW and her current emotional state, and the details of A, where I try to villify OW and he tries to defend her which makes both of us angry and distant, thus repeating the vicious circle for the nth time. The triggers, it seems, are everywhere, not just when he happens to see OW in person (which happened twice in the past two months) or in a dream. Recently, I visited him in his workplace and he showed me a present that she gave him with a card that he kept in a filing cabinet. He wanted me to see the card so that I could understand that it wasn't some fling for him but a total and absolute love. I thought I was going to gag after reading it. He disposed of the gift and the card in a nearest gas station trash can, but the words from the card are still haunting me.

I wonder if I am entering the dangerous territory of too much information.

The only danger I see here is that they work together so he is perpetually triggered every day he goes to work. She stays top of mind. It is like the alcoholic going to the bar every having drinks. Of course that is all he thinks about.

Have you exposed his filthy, vile affair to his family, friends and your children? It sounds like his fantasy is still very strong and that leads me to believe it has been kept secret.

Have you exposed his affair to his employer?

See, exposure is a fantastic way to wake someone up from the fantasy. It is like bringing in a crowd of people to the crackhouse to watch the crackheads get high. It ruins the fantasy high when everyone is standing around looking at you with horror and disgust.

How old are your kids?

One kid is in college, another in high school. I am totally with you on the need to have him out of his workplace. He is desperately looking for another position. I have exposed the A far and wide but not to the employer. He will never be able to find another job in this job market if he has anything less than stellar in terms of employer recommendations. Since he is now on board at home trying to rebuild our marriage, I don't think any further exposure would be any good.

As to rebuilding our marriage, after him giving me a glimpse into the A, I am not sure how we could ever match the emotional level of the A. Even now, two months later, he slips sometimes and tells me how he feels heart broken. Doh! How about me and my heart being wripped apart? See, I just don't know how to find anything in me to be the giver under the MB recovery program. I fear he returned to our marriage for the wrong reasons: he did it for the kids and perhaps to avoid the mess that his A created. Although if OW proceeds with D, I wonder if he is hoping to give us a chance and if things do not work out, return to her.

I can understand your reasons for not exposing at work, but what about your children? Family members? And he is really not on board at all. He is still in the bar every day, which makes recovery impossible. How hard is he looking for another job? Has he considered going to Human Resources, telling them about his affair and asking for a transfer?


The reasons don't matter. It really doesn't make any difference at all. What matters is the steps you take AFTER the affair ends. He CAN fall in love with you, but that won't happen until contact ends.

Do your kids know all about his affair? What about your families?

Situations like this often end up in disaster. The longer the he is around the OW the greater the chance he will leave for her.

I don't know if you realize that. You are putting your marriage at GREAT risk by protecting his job. I hope he is working his [censored] off to find another job.

Is there a chance he could transfer in the meantime?

I don't think she buys all that kook babble about "soul mates" and "cosmic connection." Her husband is obviously lost in kookville but hopefully he will sober up once he gets away from this lunatic OW.

ybl, how old is your husband? It is real unusual to see a grown up fall for all that cosmic baloney.

Oh wow. He is a little long in the tooth to believe that crap!

Thanks for injecting some reason, guys. Yes, all of this sounds pretty crazy. My H is an intelligent and educated man with three degrees who never exhibited his new-age proclivities before. he has some unresolved issues from his childhood - his father died when he was very young. Prior to meeting me, he admitted to having a very strong spiritual relationship with a woman who claimed to be able to communicate with his diseaced father. That relationship did not last beyond 6 months but contributd to his divorce from the first wife (that was over 20 years ago). This A, apparently, was of a similar sort. I wonder if H is losing his mind or going through MLC or something. He keeps giving me some specific examples how the OW is a healer, clairvoyant and all this other crazy crap, which at times makes me question his sanity. On the hand, he appears quite normal and centered. In fact, I kind of resent how matter-of-fact and measured he is in our relationship, almost like an automaton.

He keeps professing his commitment to stay in the marriage and gets upset when is reminded about the pain he inflicted on all of his family. The children and other family members know about the A. Our older child is refusing to speak or having any contact with him and resents me for allowing him back. So now, I have to deal also with a rift with my oldest. H sent a letter to our older child apologizing for the affair but, alas, to no avail.

In a way, despite its craziness, I kind of want to believe the kookieness of the A as it is much easier for me to forgive him on the account of his temporary insanity.

In addition, H insists on not regretting the A, because it was a growing experience for him. He claims that thanks to the A he is now resolved to work on our marriage, which, apparently, he was unhappy about and ready to quit prior to A. He claims that if it wasn't for the A, we would be divorcing in another year or so. Whereas now, he maintains, he is committed to being a better husband and father. There are certain dimensions of our relationship that are better post A, however, in my opinion, they are not enough to instil hope in me. So the question to those of you who have gone through this, how long does it take for the WS to become truly remorseful and fully committed to the BS? How do you make WS fall in love again? We are doing a lot of UA time now, but a large portion of it is devoted to discussing some aspects of the A. Admittedly, I tend to ask him lots of detailed questions and he, taking the transparency commitment very seriously, is giving me all the gory details which sends us into another visious cycle of resentment, anger, tears, etc.

**IF** he has stopped all contact, then he is suffering still from being in the wayward fog. UA time will work to break that. Part of the challenge here will be to not belittle his beliefs (if he truly believes this stuff) while working on recovery (assuming you don't believe it that is).


CV

yb1,

Your posts resonate with me and my situation of the summer of 2008. There are so many similarities. The physical portion of the A had stopped in April, but there was contact between H and OW every few days at work. She would sneak up behind him in his office, see him outside smoking and come outside. There were probably instances where he went looking for her also. And this was after the exposure at work, so there were other eyes on them during the day. H didn't talk about a cosmic connection, but H did think OW was a wonderful woman.

H was "halfway" committed to our M. He left his job and we moved several states and 1200 miles from OW. H was still a liar and we talked about the A too often. We ended up with a false recovery several months later when H contacted OW by email and phone.

Here are my recommendations:
1) Your H must leave that job. Moving to another state would be a good thing.
2) Sign up for the online program. I don't think my H and I would be married if it weren't for the MB program. Follow it without deviation.
3) Investigate anti-depressants for your H. He is very addicted to this woman and constantly in withdrawal because of contact and your discussions.
4) Stop talking about OW. Your H is getting a "hit of affair high" every time he gets to talk about how "wonderful" she is. This talk also takes a huge toll on you, making you doubt whether you can "match" the intensity of the affair.
5) Tell your H that your M needs to be better than it was pre-A and that if he is back only for the kids and not you, you are not interested in remaining married to him.

All in or all out.

My H and I are now in recovery. It has been two years since we started the MB program. My H is now an honest man; the sparkle is back in his eyes and we are happy together. H now views OW with distain and his A as the most harmful and hurtful thing he has ever done.

AM

Thanks Celtic and Armymama for your insightful comments. It is so wonderful to have your support. A couple of months ago I would have been so happy if WH just returned home. Now that he is home, things are much more difficult than I ever imagined. What adds insult to injury is not only the A, but also the fact that OW is younger by 10 years and very attractive. Coupled with "cosmic powers" it is hard for me to compete with this. Theirs was a completely obsessive affair, with constant contact at work in his office, by e-mail (like 15 - 20 messages a day) and by phone (she called him frequently and spoke for hours when I was not around, which was often due to my work schedule). They wrote poems to one another and made specific plans for the future. She claimed she wanted to wait with moving in with WH so the kids (two elementary school-aged daughters) could finish the school year.

Now, WH is actively looking for a job elsewhere. Until this happens, we are stuck. When is the best time to sign up for the program -- when he is out of the still-lingering affair fog? I know it will not be easy to convince him to participate in MB. What are your recommendations?

It is difficult dealing with the fog. There is little to no reason in their thinking. Did you expose at work? One thing you can do is expose there. You can also go with him and talk to his bosses, asking them to please ensure no contact in the work-place until your H transfers or leaves.

Cosmic powers... Look, if madam zadora has healing powers and is so good, why isn't she spending time in the cancer ward of the hospital clearing out patients with them? I would bet your headache is from having to deal with this and not because she can read your mind. I can finish my wife's thoughts and sentences, but it is because i know her and spend time with her and listen attentively to what she says. I'm not a mentalist, just a smart listener.

You can defeat this by spending your ua time together and making it positive. All waywards make plans for the future. It's the nature of the beast. Take note of it but don't freak, some are serious, others are just talking out of both sides of their mouths.

CV

I think your husband is hypnotized by some strange. To be cavalier at a time when its certainly inappropriate.

I can speak for horny guys, we can and will do nearly anything for a good piece of action. It takes a moral center and just a skosh of character to tell a chick you are not available and you are wasting your time wooing me. I think the nature of life has it that men do the persueing more often than not, so when that trueism is inverted men arent ready for it. For me, and most men who love their spouses and made commitments they intend to keep, this attention is but flattery and we move on.

It doesnt matter the beauty or physique of AP, its just the newness of it.

Im picturing a lonely woman who took a shine to your husband and he may not have had that attention in a while.

Now, for this hogwash that he is smitten with this woman by higher powers, you need to know this is fog-talk at a caliber I have not seen on these boards since I got here. Complete and utter BS.

Keep up the MB strategy and chip away at a serious fogged out person in your husband.

Be careful this woman sounds like a whackjob.

Yb1, I would strongly encourage you to write Dr Harley at his radio show and ask his advice. The issue here is much more than typical WS fogginess but a kooky world view that subscribes to an entitlement to an adultery. Your husband feels entitled to commit the most cruel acts against you using this cosmic nutball stuff as a justification. As long as he has that attitude, you are not SAFE with him. It is only a matter of time until he meets some new kook who will drop her drawers and be his "soulmate."

The reason your husband is transparent is not because he feels remorse but because his conscience is dead and he feels no shame. He doesn't care.