Thank god for MB! I have been reading and following the site obsessively; found the forums today with the "Notable posts" section with useful info. So far everything has been going "well," meaning, according to my honest desires, my honest feelings to save my marriage. I'm in Plan A right now, but I have some questions:

How do I not condone the affair without making demands? The way I've been doing it is stating facts that it needs to end for any hope, and that it's hurtful. Honestly stating the consequences and that I want to make it work.

I've made a couple of well constructed "statements" to him when he first asked to leave and he takes them in. What do I say to my husband if he keeps asking me to leave in his irrational, vacillating state? I've already given one speech but what do I keep saying?

He says he's not sure if he loves me, his heart broke a long time ago. He says he's trying to drive me away. Comparing it to suicide, rebirth. How do I connect with him when he's out fostering his love with her? What do I do when he comes back from being with her all disconnected and romantically destructive?

How do I "Do NOT shield your spouse from the consequences of his or her adultery. If you do, you give your spouse time and space to reignite the adultery and continue it better hidden than before" (from the Notable posts first post)? I don't know what consequences are really being talked about here.

My story:
Married for almost 3 years, together for almost 10 years. Moved to a new city and I was gone for big chunks of time during the year; the first time for me traveling a lot in our relationship but he's been gone for very long stretches of time in the past as well and I've endured it. Once I returned he began an emotional affair with a coworker which he says was bc of 2 bad fights we had, and things with us gradually deteriorated over the next 5 months. He spent more of his leisure time away from me, he bean drinking and smoking pot regularly which had not been part of our life before, he would break dates with me, I began asking him if he was having an affair, he would divulge aspects of our private life to his new "best friend," he stopped talking to me intimately, he became anxious and stopped having sex with me (and I'm very hot, and this had never happened before). I did not put the pieces together bc our new life in this new city has been awesome for me, and he seemed happy. Also I am awesome, always dedicated and wanting to work on our marriage, he's always expressed dedication, we've always been very supportive and very close, this new city seemed to be fostering progress, and never thought, NEVER EVER, that this would happen.

We're not perfect. I have not been meeting his needs. He's had a lifetime of repression and fear that he's never worked on and it's now coming home to roost. I recognize that and want to change that. I want radical honesty, more sex, etc. I think if we are even just radically honest everything else would be fixed. We have bad fights where he says his heart has been broken. I take responsibility for my part in that and know ways forward to fix it. I never thought that once he was ready to work on his/our issues that he'd leave me, but that we'd actually work on it.

We started couples therapy a month ago ad he would be so distraught in every session and I had no idea why. I didn't want to be put through the ringer again if he wasn't serious, we have a history of trying inadequately, so I was resistant to his tantrums. I wanted us to just become better, I didn't realize what kind of a crisis we were in. About 2 weeks ago he had another breakdown and said he wanted to end things. I was shocked, completely caught off guard. We talked most of the night and came to the conclusion that we could work it out. That night he left our house to think, but actually went and slept with his "best friend." The next day he told me, and in therapy, despite this I still wanted to work it out since I thought we had reached a new level of honesty and I finally understood what was going on, despite my entire world and life and love being shattered. He'd been having an affair for 5 months. The sex is not the most important part (especially since he says he can't cum with this girl. Yes he told me. I told you we're very close).

We had a week of being apart where he was supposed to be thinking but he continued to see her, to my devastation. When we were together again we talked for hours. Then in therapy he said again he wanted to end things and I again said that marriages all go through crises and I believed we could work it out, this takes time. I wrote him a heartfelt plea without any LB and taking some responsibility. He then said he wasn't sure and had to think about it. We've talked a lot since then, a lot of intimacy, he seems to understand and there' some connection. BUT he is still a WH, and when he goes to her or comes form her he is detached, with this fantasy of suicide and rebirth, emptiness, says he needs to read some philosophy. I'm showing him that I'm changing, no LB, trying to give him space and what I can, and trying to be honest while sticking to MB.

I sent him a plan for recovery based on MB since he kept saying, in his fear of facing the destruction inside of him and the destruction that he's wrought, that he could not see how anything could change, what our life would be like. He has that, we're supposed to talk about it, but after reading the forums I wonder if I should even do that in his irrational state. I still feel like we're able to talk.

Hopefully there are some of our out there with some expert and experienced and successful advice for me. Thank you.

Have you omitted any part of Plan A?






Please, identify where your Plan A needs work.

Giving speeches is not Plan A.

Couples therapy will damage your chances for recovery.

Trying to "work on the marriage issues" while he is in his affair mode is akin to .....

Repairing the damaged flooring while the house is still on fire.

Do not go to more sessions.
Couples therapy during an affair actually serves as an excuse for the wayward to END THE MARRIAGE.
As in:

"See. I tried therapy and it did not work."

We see this all the time.

Edit to add:

Infidels LIE in marriage therapy.
Every time they speak.

Go to my carrot/stick post and step-by-step address your progress in each and every area.
That is way more useful than any pointless and useless info such as:

So what?
Does this give him a valid excuse for adultery?
No.
Not for one second.
We don't care.

You've broken many MB "rules" in the 3 short years of marriage.
It's not a surprise that there was an affair.
The affair is because of the dynamics of your marriage .... NOT because of your husband's childhood issues.

You must accept this before you can work the MB plans.


Chances are, he began his EA a lot sooner than you realize.
He probably began telling OW all about your faults and did his marriage complaining to OW, instead of to you.

Are you aware that martial complaints are a good thing?
Marital fighting is not.


There is no use "talking sense" with the chemically altered.
Save your breath.



You are awesome? LOL

Welcome to MARRIAGE BUILDERS

What are you past and current snooping skills/techniques?
It is very important to talk less and to snoop more.

Thank you!! I've only been obsessed with MB in the past 2 weeks so I was outlining some of the risks or mistakes that have been happening this year according to MB. He only met the OW 5 months ago bc she was a new hire to his company. the "speech" was more trying to profess my love, dedication, understanding, desire to make it work. I wrote it down bc I knew I'd be too distressed to be articulate. BUT I'm going to consider these posts carefully!

It's Superbowl Sunday.
You will have a slew of responses tomorrow.
meanwhile, keep reading.
Work on your understanding of Plan A.

Did you expose this affair?
To whom, exactly?
Does his place of employment know?

LINK to Operation Investigate .... Read and get smart!

Hi 3634days, Welcome to MB (I hate football, so i am online!), Sorry you are here.

Pep seems to have answered very very well to almost everything. Just a few comments...

1. The affair was not your fault. Whether you were meeting all the needs or not.

2. You could be the most stunning woman in the world and it would not keep a spouse from cheating. Most affairees "affair down". The reason he cheated is because he has poor boundaries around women.

3. Do you guys have kids? How many and what are their ages?

Please be prepared for the fog-babble he will emit from his mouth. It's deceptive and he probably won't even be aware of what or why he's saying things. Do you have any ideas what his top 3 needs are?

CV

Hey 3, talking is a waste of time I'm afraid, waywards are as senseless as drunks. He is also telling you a number of lies, I.e. His ability to 'finish' with this POSOW sounds like a typical wayward lie.
1. Stop listening. To every lying word.
2. Work plan A _ is your exposure complete?
3. Read the never take the word of a waywards thread.

Exposure: he's told his family, I think all our friends know. He's lost his job so I'm considering this with his new job... how do I keep negotiations pleasant & cheerful if I do this? How can alienation bring him back and recommit? I'm struggling with how to make it a home and I a person he'd want to be with if I'm also being honest about the hurt & pain he can't face and continues to create. Seems to contradict. He says he's nervous to talk to me, not open to me, and I've said I don't want to talk from the advice here. Should creating a space for him to feel safe come first, be patient, and then deal with the pain of the affair? He was gone all weekend and I told him on the phone that it was hurtful and I can't hide the hurt from him, but that our home is his home. Confused.

I know one of his top 3 needs is more sex & variety, then no more fights/safe home/nurturing & listening. The other could be more financial contribution from me. I'm trying to work on these on my own.

The wayward doesn't expose, you do. You tell them of the A ask for them to use their influence with APs to help you save your marriage. That is quite different to thinking people might know. Your family should know and the OWs husband and family should be exposed to also. Is his family supportive of you? Have you asked them to be. You should prepare a day to expose to everyone in full. We will help you with what to say because it is important to expose properly.

His job is no good unless both he and OW work there. How did he lose the first one?

You keep talking about what he says but it is nonsensical to listen to a wayward.

Read the carrot and stick of Plan A in Pepperbands sig.

You have to become the person any REASONABLE spouse wwould want - as waywards are not reasonable you will have to ignore much of what he says or wants.

And absolutely do NOT be patient with his A or make him feel it it safe to carry on with his A.

Carrot:
Look good, smell good express a desire to have sex 'when the A is over'make home warm and inviting.

Stick
Let him know the carrot is alimited offer and if he carrys on he will end up in a nasty divorce and you will not be friends afterwards

These are not ENs - have you read the basic concepts?

What is a 'safe' home and what does 'nurturing' consist of? I'm guessing these are the rambling complaints of a wayward high off his azz on the excitement of having two women.STOP listening.

You should avoid all angry outbursts though. You should mention his ending the A or facing a D in calm terms and then change the subject.

I.E.
HIM - hurtful criticism of you/crazy complaint re nurturing sex blah blah blah.
You- I would be happy to when you end your A. Want a cookie?

But he already wants to leave me... I'm trying to get him to recommit. So how can I use divorce as a stick? Aren't we supposed to stay away from threats in Plan A?

I know my explanation of his EN aren't in the right language. I should look at them closer.

Hi 3634days, welcome to Marriage Builders. Sorry for the reasons that brought you here. The first thing you should do is DEMAND that he end his affair. Tell him this will lead to divorce if he does not end his affair. I would make plans for a separation if he won't end his affair in 3-4 weeks. Ask him to move out. But be assured you need to DEMAND. Thoughtful requests will not cut it.


Secondly, it is important that you expose the affair wide and far. To his family, your family, the OW's family,[her facebook contacts] your children, close friends and if a workplace affair, the workplace. Affairs thrive on secrecy so exposure is your greatest weapon. Go read the thread that is linked in my signature to get ideas on how to expose properly.

You are focusing on the wrong things. Focus your attention on killing his affair and avoiding lovebusters. Stop talking to him about emotional needs and start DEMANDING he end his affair. Tell him he needs to move out if he won't end the affair.

Plan A is only supposed to last 3 to 4 weeks for women, and then Plan B is warranted. You should start making plans to separate NOW.

Is he off with this ho? Where is he and who is he with?

If he is off with this skank, then you need to make plans to go into Plan B sooner rather than later. To do otherwise is to enable him and put you in a position to suffer great emotional harm. If he is this flagrant with his affair, then the best thing you can do is remove yourself from his circle of abuse.

Here is what Harley says about it: