to a degree. I'm not sure if that means I'm necessarily shrinking form the consequences. I fully accept the consequences, I wasn't excited to tell my parents and talk to them, and have spent quite a bit of time talking to them (and I'll spend the next 2 weeks living with them after I have surgery). I'm not sure it's avoiding consequences that I'd prefer to talk with my sister at this point in time.

I would think they were a skanky ho. My actions were reprehensible.
I feel like I'm facing my actions and the consequences there-of, maybe not? My dad likes BH. He thinks we both have a lot of growing up to do. I did think about how my family would be split. And I completely understand why they are furious with me for my actions. I accept that, and it hasn't stopped me from talking with them, and accepting what they have to say. I was saying that I'd prefer to talk with someone who treated me with more grace at this moment in my journey- even if I don't deserve it. But that's the definition of grace anyway, isn't it?

Then you behave with grace. While your father's reaction was painful to face, it was the reaction of pain. Pain for you, pain for your husband, his own pain.

You want grace, yet you are not willing to extend it to those you have injured?

Its foggy, sister. You aren't asking for grace, you are asking to be coddled.

Often times your worst critics are your best supporters, because they tell you the truth.

Free forgiveness is worth what's paid for it; nothing.

Ok?

DoroM, I was not implying that you were seeking to be coddled; your self-exposure actions have earned you the award for "courage".

What I was trying to point out was the advisibility of "playing the odds" in your choice of what support structures you'll want in place going forward.

Firstly, you surely understand you're probably not alone in your desire for an enabling environment for you (and eventually, the two of you). It's not likely you'll find a yellow-pages listing for "Reformed Adulterers of America". But most religious institutions either have, or are associated with, something along the lines of a "Marriage Support Ministry". Asking about and investigating those groups might be a way to get started.

You have a great sis and dad.

I truly don't believe I'm asking to be coddled- and the questions/statements I'm making in the past few posts are not meant to be defensive at all. In no way, did I say I was not willing to extend grace to anyone. Was I hurt by what my dad said, heck yeah. Even more so, b/c I'm pretty tight w/ my dad (daddy's little girl, if you will), so it hurt a lot.
I understand- and I don't want to be in an enabling environment. That's not going to get me/us anywhere. Of the people I've been talking to, it's the ones who have the backbone to say, "I HATE what you've done, but I LOVE you/both of you, and I will do whatever I have to do to help you work on yourself and your marriage". I'm not running away from challenging people who would really help us- I want to find more of those people.

Right now though- yesterday, today, tomorrow. I need someone to be loving to me, even if I don't deserve it. I'm very aware of what I've done/the pain I've caused not only my BH, but both of our families. And I know that my pain is nowhere near what BH is feeling. I understand that, even if I may never truly understand the extent of pain that he is undergoing. But that doesn't mean I'm not hurting. And yes, you may say, "well good! you should be!" Which I don't disagree with.

All I meant is that right now- in this instant, I need a few people who can be firm with me, but loving also. Someone who isn't going to throw stones. I feel an endless amount of pain, heartbreak, regret, and devastation about what I've done. I've gone to bed a few nights this past week, the only thing giving me comfort was thinking of 'checking out', b/c when I thought about the pain I caused BH, I couldn't understand/deal with being the root of that pain. I was laying in bed wishing I was working, b/c then I would have access to things that would make it quick, easy, painless- and probably a bit fun.

I just want to hear from the people in my life who will tell me that I don't have to continue to the person I've been, that there is hope, and repentance, and forgiveness from God. I can be a new person, and that our God is a God of 2nd, 3rd, 4th (or in my case) 1,209th chances.

I share all of this with you, not to say, 'poor pititful me, I hurt sooo bad, you should feel sorry for me'. Please, Please, Please don't think that I'm in anyway diminishing my husbands pain- or that I am in fact the cause of it. I'm quite hesitant to talk about how I'm feeling, b/c I don't want it to be construed the wrong way. I just wanted to share the reasons why right now, I wanted to be around people who I knew loved me- and I should point out that I don't believe 'love' is just telling you what you want to hear.

I'm being as genuine as I can be right now. I don't want to shirk my responsibilities and the consequences. I truly don't believe I have. I'm waffling back and forth if I should even post this response, b/c I don't want you guys to get the wrong idea of what I'm trying to say/explain.
I do. And a great mom. Trust me when I say, I know (and feel) loved by all of them (except when my dad is yelling at me-and that's b/c I hate disappointing him), but not a one would let me get away with shirking from the consequences of my actions.

Actually, because of my abysmal choice of vocabulary, you and I were talking at "cross purposes" for a moment, but the gist of the meaning was affirmed. I was using "enabling" not in the infidelity-usual sense of "enabling an affair", but in the more positive sense of "enabling" you and FBH to move forward.

You did make an important point (plea?) however:

I need a few people who can be firm with me, but loving also..who isn't going to throw stones...I just want to hear from the people in my life who will tell me that I don't have to continue to the person I've been, that there is hope, and repentance, and forgiveness from God. I can be a new person, and that our God is a God of 2nd, 3rd, 4th (or in my case) 1,209th chances.

Well, that's who WE are. I know we only exist in a virtual communication medium, but we are here precisely to support folks like you struggling to recover and repair what is damaged. Besides, here on this site we extend around the world, so anytime you're hurting, one of us will answer.

But you also included the following:

I've gone to bed a few nights this past week, the only thing giving me comfort was thinking of 'checking out', b/c when I thought about the pain I caused BH, I couldn't understand/deal with being the root of that pain. I was laying in bed wishing I was working, b/c then I would have access to things that would make it quick, easy, painless- and probably a bit fun.

And that CANNOT happen. I was there. It took a dear friend, and a certifiable miracle to back me off the ledge, but the result today makes looking back at my place then almost surreal. You parents do not need that agony, nor does your sister. You do NOT go there again. There is always hope and the potential for improvement.

In addition, you have talents that will someday soon be of value to subsequent "newbies" here. You owe us that future service.

more of that nonsense, Ma'am.

Yes, and you don't know how grateful I am to have found all you guys. Sometimes it's easier to be completely honest with a bunch of strangers than those who you know the best.

No, I'm not there now. But I was. I work in a medical environment, and I can't even count the number of people I've seen come in after failed attempts. I could seriously write a book on how NOT to kill yourself. It would be oh so embarrassing if I failed. I guess that is where pride comes in handy. So that's why it was a good thing I wasn't at work. Everyday, I deal with Michael Jackson's favorite stuff. So I was left thinking, "How sharp exactly do you think the kitchen knives are?" and "Would the axillary artery or brachial be better?"

So don't worry, I'll be around- whether you liked me or not. And apologies if you're offended by anything I wrote in the above paragraph. Joking around makes me feel better.
Sounds like a deal.

Yeah I do have you lined up to deal with future WWs, Doro!

It does make you wonder exactly how far reaching the consequences of your broken leg are expected to be, hmm?

You are not alone in this. I have thought about this as well. But, in the end, it is again for selfish reasons. Big hugs to you.

Hate to be a pity-party pooper, but thoughts of suicide including planning belong on a suicide hotline, not on this forum.

If you are contemplating it GET HELP.

Also; you aren't "crazy" or "alone," Dr. Harley has noted that many waywards entertain thoughts of suicide. Women especially when they don't end their adultery.

The betrayed also contemplate it... And some betrayed contemplate murder.

So, to reinforce the above; if you are contemplating it, get help.

I'm not contemplating it. I said that I had thought of it- and the only reason I mentioned it, was to try to explain some of the things we were discussing beforehand.

I did read what Dr. Harley said in regards to many people having these thoughts. It's like the white elephant in the room (or internet, as the case may be). I was just stating how I felt in the very recent past- maybe it will help someone in the future to know they're not alone and if they stick it out, it's worth it in the end. (living, that is)

Here's the thing; if you are contemplating, this isn't the place for it. If you seemed serious, it would be best if I notify the moderators and have them contact the authorities to come pick you up.

If you aren't contemplating, and you aren't serious, then you are like several who have come before you who toss it out as a form of emotional blackmail.

"How can you be so MEAN?"

Another ploy WW's will use is accusations of abuse;

"I'll confess, I just hope he doesn't hit me AGAIN!"

Nothing waywards like more than to have all of the attention on them, and to come up smelling like a victim... Or roses.


So, if I'm wearing on you, if I seem a little harsh, it's because you are, right now, following the fogged-out script. You are attempting to get all the focus and pity on you.

No.

I'll be the PITA, let your husband be your soft place to land. His kindness and forgiveness is far more valuable.

I knew I shouldn't have posted that post. I thought I had explained it in a manner that showed in no way was I trying to get the focus or pity- but I had this stinking suspicion that someone would be able to see the worst in a post I was only trying to be completely genuine and honest in. Did you even READ the whole thing? I was NOT tossing it out as emotional blackmail- b/c if I was going to toss it out as emotional blackmail, why the heck would I do it to a bunch of strangers on the internet? I didn't mention how I felt to a single person IRL, least of all my BH. You don't think I know how that would've sounded?

I stated I 'HAD THOUGHT' of it. That would be in the past perfect tense. Meaning, in the past, I had indeed thought. Since it was in the past, it does indeed mean, that I am not (present tense)currently contemplating it. Crazy, how verb tenses can change the meaning of a sentence.

Am I not allowed to share how I'm feeling/have felt in the past? Should I pretend that I don't care I just devastated and ruined my husbands life? Maybe some WW don't care. But I actually do, and it hurts me more than you will know.

The ONLY reason I brought that story up, was b/c I was trying to explain my feelings of pain, in regards to wanting the people who were helping/mentoring me in this time to be loving while they were doing it.

Part of me is tempted to go edit it out of the post, so no one else will come and attack me. But I'm not going to, because I think it's possible that it might help someone else. I have never in my life had a true serious thought like that, I never understood it when all these people would come into the hospital after trying(and failing)- b/c I couldn't understand how life could seem that bad that someone would want to do that. So many healthcare professionals lack empathy and toss only judgment at people that come in like that, and now that I've experienced(past tense) feelings so low, it can do nothing but help me care for people in the future.

You may think what you like about me, but I believe your accusations are baseless in this case.

Yes, well you do it so well...and I wish my husband could be my soft place to land, but we're not exactly there yet.

Your defensiveness speaks volumes.

You can call it an attack if you wish - that is how you feel, attacked.

Sad thing is, I'm not attacking you. I'm doing what we can do here - calling out an action or a statement in a way you don't like. Being truthful. Pointing out your spiral into self-focus.

My wife did it, she was foggy. I was not in a position to hold her accountable to a lot of that. Why? Because I would have sunk into Love Busters to do so. I had my faults, they were called out.

Doro, you cut your husbands heart out, and here we sit arguing about how YOU look, what people think about YOU, about YOUR pain.

You made the choices that lead to this, and your husband was Pearl Harbored by the person he loves and trusted the most.

Why are we talking about your pain while your husband is bleeding on the floor?

I've seen others do what you are doing right now, it it doesn't end well.

I'm not going to pat you on the back and give you a "there, there" when you are still exhibiting foggy thinking. I'm going to tell you that you are foggy. To me, that honesty is more caring than sugar-coating the issue.

Things went from EP's to your pain... Why?

We were discussing choosing mentors/people to help rebuild, and I thought I was explaining my thinking behind some of the things I said. That's the only reason I brought up my pain. Certainly not to get any sympathy. (I do still remember the first day I posted here, I'm not that slow of a learner to think things would be different a week later).

I had an inkling of how that post may be construed, and I should've heeded it. It wasn't my intent at all- and I say that with complete honesty and genuineness. I'm sorry if you don't see that.

Doro,

It's not sympathy you need, it's empathy - the empathy of your husband.

Where he is right now, where he is going to be for a while, is broken. He can't empathize with you being defensive, blame-shifting, and avoiding the unpleasant consequences of your actions.

He may empathize with remorse, but that will take time. Why? Because you have proven through action that you will lie through your teeth, and blame him for your poor decisions.

That is the distance right now; disbelief.

To earn his empathy, focus your pain into Just Compensation. The release from that pain is reconciling yourself and your marriage.

Even that won't be easy. He won't want to trust you, and you will find yourself feeling undeserving.

Don't let those things stop you.

Time, care, and protection. Those are your allies.

It is really common for WWs to consider such things at the depths of their experiences and I don�t think saying so is inappropriate. It�s just a part of the sucky consequences of choosing adultery and then finding out what it does for the soul. Personally I don�t see anything in Doros post that implies she is using it to be given a break from 2x4s, she just says where she was before taking action to change.

Why would we expect her to skip a part of the experience that all WWs go through at rock bottom? Or hide the fact that she experienced that?

To my mind the response is �Keep making changes and your outlook will continue to improve� not �Don�t mention it�