Is there anyway you can be in the church and not be in sight for now......can you speak to the clergy and come up with a solution for you......I know there must be a solution.......
Eventually he may fizzle out, I think it's great you are looking forward to PLan B, get that letter ready and look forward to the peace you are going to feel......
Time and patience is key here, don't give anymore thought about what he is doing or saying, that is his choice................
take care of yourself and know that is all you can control be the best you that you can be right now............you are worth it

Desperate, you may need to move to a new town.

Desperate, I would first get him out and THEN worry about writing the letter. We can fashion the letter for your situation.


I would figure out a way to cut off all contact with him. You can still get support at the church but avoid seeing him. For example, if he goes to church on Sunday, you could go to church on Wednesday night. Or just skip services altogether and stay in touch with your support group. What you can't do is see your H at church. It will completely negate the point of Plan B.

We had lunch together yesterday, I'd asked him to earlier in the week to try and talk about some of the terms/issues of separation/divorce and try to come to an agreement. It went well in some ways, we didn't really address any of the most difficult things (our son) but did address the house a little bit. He is offering to help work on the house, and I'm really at a loss for what to do about that. Part of me would love his help, he knows what he's doing and is pretty good working on stuff if someone is with him. And since I haven't entered plan B yet, it would be a good time to be together, building those cooperative memories. On the other hand, I'm treasuring my independence right now, proud of moving this project forward, and don't want to feel beholden to him. I also don't want him involved too much if we're just going to get divorced and I'm stuck with the house for financial reasons...I don't want too many memories of "we built that together." But this weekend we're just sanding the floors...so it might not be too bad.

I did explain to him and think he understood that part of why I am not comfortable with him moving into the guesthouse or even working on the house much is emotional, that I am not wanting a divorce and really want a chance to work on our marriage. I said that if the divorce was off the table and we we're going to have our separate space but spend time together, working on reconciliation, I would be more willing to agree to him staying in the guesthouse.

And I asked him what he is planning to do. He said, looking me straight in the eye, he doesn't know what he plans to do, he hasn't made definite decisions at this point and he's still thinking about a lot of things.

I think he might be somewhat coming to realize what he's doing and how dramatic a divorce would be...but I don't know. I spend time looking in the SAA forum because I feel like my husband is in a fog of his own (depression?) even if he is not having an affair. It almost seemed yesterday like his fog was clearing a bit.

So, experts, would it be good or bad to accept his help this weekend?

Ah, how quickly things change.

After I typed this message, I got up and was getting ready when I realized the bathroom scale was missing. I asked the kids, no one had seen it or done anything with it. I went to the other house where my STBX is and asked him and he said, yes, he came and got it yesterday. (Mind you, he had previously handed over "all" of his keys to this house and I know I left it locked). He said I hadn't locked the side door, but I know I did, I double checked it. He said he didn't do anything else but get the bathroom scale (I do not believe this...I feel as if he could have done anything, including planting something to spy on me). I also saw he had a different computer, and my computer (which he was been using...we have two and it was easier to let him use one than argue about it, but this was mine, bought before we even married). So I took my computer back and said he didn't need two. A few minutes later he followed me into the back house, where the kids were eating breakfast, and proceeded to scream, use profanity, get upset in front of the kids, started grabbing the computer from it (he thought better of it, but he can barely control himself). We went outside and, I yelled at him too, that I will not tolerate him violating every boundary we agree upon and that I need my space. He went back in, pushing past me, and started grabbing our son up and said he'd take him to school. Our son was sitting eating his breakfast and, though he didn't get upset, didn't want to be disrupted. I convinced STBX to leave him and leave. A few minutes later, I let him come back when he was calmer to talk to our son and the girls and apologize for his behavior (which he didn't really do, but whatever, he said he loved them and that this conflict is between the adults and not about them).

After that he went back outside, threatened to call DCF, said he was going to come through and get all his stuff out of the back house while I was at work. I said do you still have a key, then, and he insisted he didn't "But I'll get a locksmith if I have to." I took both computers and the internet router with me to work today, and was late and didn't get breakfast myself with all the high drama.

I'm now considering a restraining order...I am concerned about his increasing aggression and refusal to leave.

I think this is a good idea. I am particularly concerned about the kids - I didn't like reading the part where he started to grab your son. I am concerned that he will become enraged and accidentally harm them while lashing out at you. AND I am concerned about YOU.

I held off on the restraining order for today, but changed the locks. If he retaliated by making a report to DCF, it would affect my job and livelihood, as I would have to take leave (paid until my vacation time is used up, then unpaid) while it is being investigated, since I work in child welfare. While there might be some nice sides to that (hey, all that free time and I'd really get the house done!) I can't afford it financially on top of everything else. So...I'm trying to not escalate things.

It's fairly ironic though that H said a few weeks ago when I found out he had an attorney, "Locks keep honest people honest." Guess he needs that extra help

I've changed my user name! I don't feel Desperate anymore, and want to reflect where I am: on a journey.

What an interesting weekend, I'm not sure where I stand on anything.

On Friday night, DH apologized for his behavior, trying to blame it on me (I'm sorry I acted this way but you...) I clarified what he was doing in a non-confrontational way. I worked on the house a bit, but then he was in the way somewhat (our son wanted to sleep with daddy, so I didn't want to be sanding in the next room after he went to bed).

The next day, he was very friendly in the morning, talkative, joking, etc. I thought things were going well, then he got mad at me because his tools were in bad shape and he said I'd done it, and stormed off to the church where he was going to volunteer all day. We hadn't made definite plans about the kids going with him, and I didn't realize until a few minutes later he actually left. I called him and the conversation went poorly, he was accusatory, I was defensive, I was accusatory, he was defensive. I was also very upset because he left for the day with all of his stuff still in one bedroom, locked with a deadbolt, and I couldn't sand in there. My morning got off to a bad start, and finally he ended up coming back to pick up the kids and move his stuff. He also apologized very nicely, and said he didn't want to act this way, that we were both good people and we needed to come up with better ways of communicating.

That was really good to hear. After that, we ended up having a pretty good weekend, we spent some time together here and there, he cooked dinner on Saturday, we worked on the house Saturday night and Sunday.

Also on Sunday a handyman came by to give me a quote on putting in cabinets. DH wasn't there when we went through the house but I guess he drove up as the handyman was leaving. He was really upset, emotionally, about it and I explained calmly that although he had wanted to build the cabinets, and we'd talked about that, as I'd explained I didn't want him working on the house substantially unless it was going to be our home. I said I'd love to see whatever drawings or plans or ideas he had. He was tearing up and said he didn't want to talk about it right now. I gave him some space, and later we talked about ideas for the cabinets a bit more generally.

I'm getting all these mixed signals, and not sure what to do about it. I feel a bit as if he came out of withdrawl into conflict and is more open to working on our relationship, but I haven't really addressed it with him directly because I don't want relationship talk to interfere with any progress. I also think he's realizing that I'm not pining or waiting any more, and that if he wants to be a part of my life he has to be proactive.

On Friday, he had said, "I don't even know why you want the bathroom scale, you haven't stepped on a scale in months." To which I happily replied, "Actually, I've lost 15 pounds in the last month or so." On Sunday he asked me a follow up about losing weight, and we talked about that a bit. I think that made a big impression on him. I've addressed every thing he's complained about or given me as things he was dissatisfied with, including physical appearance, even if that bothered me tremendously that he said he was no longer attracted to me.

Well, he filed for divorce yesterday.

I'm going to ask the mods to move my threads. I wish I was getting more input here...but maybe I've just worn everyone out (I know I can be wordy).

I'm doing the best I can with what I've got, I don't lovebust anymore, which is the best I can do. I can't get him to leave (yet). I wish I could.

I got served with the divorce paperwork, at work, on Friday.

The bum is demanding alimony, attorneys fees, that I move out of the house, that I continue to pay the mortgage and his car insurance and health insurance (even after divorce), that he get primary custody of our son.

I just didn't really know what to think. It's just so laughable. It really validates for me that all this time he has not been trying to contribute to our household but just expecting me to do it all.

Not that he'll get any of what he's asked for.

I was planning on meeting him for lunch today to try and talk a second time about a settlement agreement but decided not to after I read his crazy paperwork. If this is the stuff his lawyer and he cooked up, I don't want to give them any fuel for the fire.

JV
Just wanted to say I am sorry it has come down to this.

I do have a few questions though.

How long have you known your current H? Dating/Marriage

How long were you dating/married the first time? You said he married his mistress and is still currently married to her. Was there any other type(s) of behavior similar to current H that you were aware of? (ADD/alcoholism/NPD)

Just would like to know before I comment further.

nESRE

I knew my current DH for about nine months before we got married, but we'd been together only five months when I got pregnant unexpectedly. We've been married almost 5 years.

For my ex, I was dating him through college (met him when I was 17 and he was really a way to escape a bad home life...a bad choice, I have seen for years looking back). We dated for almost four years until I graduated (he was a year ahead of me in school) then were married for about 4 years when he began his affair. It took another year plus to get divorced.

As far as the similarities, the biggest would be poor provider. My ex is finally fully employed, as of January of this year, and we have a 10 year old. He went to grad school and then has worked part time, waiting for a professorship to open up. My ex had a porn problem, my current husband does not and never has. DH was an alcoholic and comes from a family of alcoholics on both sides but has been sober for more than 10 years (and was when I met him). Neither my ex nor I really drink much at all, and no other substances are a problem for any of us.

For whatever its worth.

At least I found out last night that since my ex is now employed, my child support from him will double, and if I can rent out the guesthouse eventually, I'll be about where I was financially with DH in the picture even when he's gone.

I'm just taking life one day at a time.

read this thread:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=2594356&an=

Thanks HDW, that thread is very helpful. I have searched in vain for an OW, there just is no evidence of it. He did have a brief EA last summer that I discovered and ended. I know he's been searching up old girlfriends but don't know if he has contacted any. But there is no evidence I can find for an affair.

So much of that thread rings true, though, that I printed it out to remind myself. All the crazymaking, the blame shifting, the lack of personal responsibility, it's all such a part of what I'm stuck in.

Except that I'm trying to pull myself from the muck, and getting better bit by bit. I went to an organizational meeting for a new garden club today, and the idea of being a part of things in the community is really exciting. I also talked to an attorney friend today and got some helpful information, so I feel a little more on track in terms of what I'm faced with and how to proceed.

JV

I would go back to the radio show which ML posted on your original thread and outline every piece of advice Dr H gave you in black and white on a piece of paper. He gave you a lot of suggestions.

Also do a google search on dry drunk syndrome and read two or three different sites. Length of sobriety has nothing to do with quality of sobriety. A common thread for dry drunks is they live a miserable life and make life for those around them also miserable.


My opinion-Unless he has been thoroughly trained and schooled playing arm chair shrink is highly detrimental and a huge distraction to his own personal recovery. He needs to get his own poop in a group before he worries about others.


Also look at the above in red. Are there more similarities?

I think if you listen especially close to the first segment of the radio program you may hear even more with what you wrote to the Harley's.

Hope this helps.

nESRE

Yes, I agree with you about the Dry Drunk thing. DH actually explained that very well to me when we were discussing my own alcoholic aunt's temporary foray into sobriety where she stopped drinking but nothing else changed.

I think he feels he's doing more than armchair shrinking because his mom is a mental health counselor and is backing him up (yes, the former raging alcoholic married 6 times screwed up his childhood with neglect mother). But I agree with you whole heartedly.

I will go back and listen to the show tonight. And take notes.

I also know I'm co-dependent, and that has played into BOTH of my marriages as a big problem on my side. I know Dr. Harley says there's nothing wrong with co-dependency, but I think he means more interdependency. Co-dependency for me is when I don't take care of my life because someone around me can't take care of theirs, so I spend my life taking care of them instead of myself. And it's not healthy. It's a renters mentality, full of sacrifice, hidden disrepect, and leads inevitably to problems.

So I take a lot of responsibility for the problems I DO bring to a relationship. I think I probably would need to be in good individual counseling for a good long time into any relationship in the future, and again any time my life starts feeling "out of control" and keep on track that way. I'm coming out of my co-dependency now and it feels wonderful to be living my life again.

The last similarity...length of marriage...

JV

IC is good if you find a good one.

Al-Anon is free and is a great way to find a support group IRL.

A good group does not sit and whine about there spouses drinking or behavior. They deal with their own behavior and reactions to what life has presented to them and how can they do what is in their own ability to make their own life better...

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks Nesre. I looked into Al-anon once but it didn't seem as relevant to me, I have been to co-dependents anonymous and thought they were very helpful (as are books geared to that kind of recovery) but the closest one now is an hour away. I actually started going to CODA groups last summer, despite the distance, because I realized with all the chaos in my life that I had slipped into those old bad habits. And when I couldn't continue with that due to the driving/time, I started IC and have been going for quite some time. I think my counselor is pretty good...it's certainly been helpful to me to keep me on track through all these difficult times.

I'm also finally living my life again. Going to community organizations, finding ways to pamper myself, also just having my own independence has been wonderful. Just as an example...when DH was living with us, and I would get home from work after being out of the house for 11.5 hours, I would have to make dinner. Often there wouldn't be meals planned or ingredients ready because he wanted to do the shopping (and since it was something he liked to contribute to our domestic life, I tried to encourage it). There would be a pile of dirty dishes in the sink. I'd spend the next hour cleaning, cooking, and getting worn out. DH, on the other hand, had no responsibilities in picking up or dropping off kids and got home 2 hours earlier. He would sometimes play with the kids, but mostly be online. Sometimes he'd cook dinner, which I appreciated, but he rarely did dishes. All of this would leave me totally overwhelmed and resentful and feeling disconnected from my kids.

Now, even though I have to do the cooking and dishwashing, I don't resent anyone else for not doing it. I do the shopping and have a weeks worth of easy meals to cook ready to go. I know what to expect every evening and can spend a little more time with the kids, as I'm prepared for it. My life is just so much less stressful when I can control the details of it, and so much less emotionally draining when I don't get resentful of the partner who isn't a partner.

I listened to my show last night, and I definitely think that the separation is something *I* need for my health, and to provide for my kids. I appreciate your reminders and input...it's sometimes so hard to see that when he's still right on the property and I am longing for the good parts of our relationship.

As for the divorce...I don't really want that, but not much I can do about it. We are meeting over lunch today to talk about bills because frankly, he's not contributing much to household expenses and I can't pay it all, at least not right now.

I just read that thread and I think my WH has said/done all of that. Crazy.

Yes, it is crazy, and my DH certainly acts like a WH, although I have not found any evidence of any contact with women since his EA last summer, 8 months ago. It's really strange looking back at what I've been through this last 8 months and that it has been so long.

I'm gearing up to plan B...either through moving out myself or setting a hearing in the divorce to get him ordered out of the home. I'm hoping to meet with an attorney this week to discuss the options.