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Sounds familiar  Thanks. But how do we believe or trust again. I can even see myself getting annoyed if someone kept accusing me of something that I wasn't doing.
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Daisy he IS doing it.
You can trust him when he accepts your terms
re honesty, transparency and recovery.
When he is hiding nothing is when you can 'trust but verify' ; that he has nothing to hide.
Use the stick of Plan A. Insist. Or go to Plan B.
Think about it.
Revealing the ID of an anononymous skank is no biggie UNLESS you are wanting to keep on seeing her and dont want your wife to interfere.
Do NOT trust. Verify.
I know you are desperate to believe Daisy, I see it. He does too and has no qualms of abusing your desperation to keep you both.
Last edited by indiegirl; 02/06/12 04:03 PM.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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The point that WH was trying to convey with the number change is that it doesn't matter what he does to remove the OW if he still wants to contact her. So there's no need to change his number, email, etc because if he WANTED to stray again he will. He's trying to say that it's an unrealistic solution to make me feel safe. So he should do... nothing? Uh huh. Insist. But say you arent interested in that until he does the NC letter to SHOW you he isnt going to give her his number. As far as the gps goes, am I suppose to tell him about it? He's suppose to agree to install one? This is where I'm confused because couldn't he just park the car somewhere and have the OW meet him and go in her car? Or turn it off somehow? NOOOOOOO!  Never reveal your snooping tactics! Ever! How else can you verify the truth? The word of an addict? My big dilemma is that I don't think he's remorseful right now. He isnt and it is no dilemmma. You must go to Plan B after a three week Plan A if he is not remorseful. Enabling by sticking around helps the A to last longer. It will also put your mental and physical health at risk if you try to withstand this abuse. I want to make sure that I keep his interest. I really really needed to give him a reason to want me again. He was almost completely out the door. You have his interest as a side dish. Not as a wife. A wife meets needs yes, but she also insists on being exclusive. You must Plan B him unless he PROVES to you that he is committed. Otherwise you will just become half of his love life. You have done a GOOD plan A. If it has worked, he will miss you in Plan B. If not you have rid youself of a hopeless serial cheat. You have nothing to lose but a cheater. He keeps reiterating to me that he said he's done and he's DONE. I advise you not to listen to what waywayds SAY. Waywards lie. What actions has he done to end the A? Changed his number? Honesty re OW? Poly? Post Nup? NC letter? Each of these actions is you saying 'Are you done with her?' Each refusal is him saying 'No'. ACTIONS - not words. You have heard his words before. Read the never take the word of a wayward thread.
Last edited by indiegirl; 02/06/12 04:16 PM.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I bumped the thread for you.....
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Daisy, please listen to the advice you are being given here. My WH did the very same thing by refusing to give me her name or any info. Before i knew it the EA I thought existed became a PA, which of course he blames me for. You can read my thread and see how similar our stories are. But never trust the words of a wayward!! I know you want to, but don't. I, myself, am entering Plan B very shortly to save mine and my kids' sanity and it can't come too soon for me.
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Daisy you are now armed with the info from Pep's thread
It will soon become obvious to you that he is still cheating.
Work Plan A CARROT AND STICK until you can get into Plan B.
Dont be afraid to tell him that this behaviour will earn him a tough divorce and you will not be friends afterward.
Ignore his reaction. But make sure you look good and are calm and relaxed no matter how crazy he is.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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But how do we believe or trust again. What are you talking about? You trust again when you are dealing with a spouse who is proven trustworthy. And, never trust blindly ever again.
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As far as the gps goes, am I suppose to tell him about it? He's suppose to agree to install one? NO. You install the GPS so you can check the accuracy of what he is saying to you. That way, after 6 months of knowing he's being truthful, you can begin to trust his word. See how this works?
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So I feel like im in no position to be demanding. I'm not a big fan of the use of the word "demand" at this juncture of Plan A. Sometimes I am a fan, But not just yet. Why not? Because you won't mean a word of it. Not because I think a demand is unwarrented. I am not a fan because I think there are probably more effective ways to convey the exact same message. Nothing I am about to write uses the word "divorce". It is implied? Maybe ....  Such as: I am certain I will not remain married if OW is part of your life. I am certain I will not remain married to a man who believes adultery is ever justifiable. I am certain I will not remain married to a man who chooses to lie to me. I am certain I will be able to heal and recover from adultery. Married, or not. I am certain I am capable of offering true forgiveness where there is sincere remorse and repentance. I am 100% certain I will be a fantastic wife. Never make threats that you do not intend to keep in short order.. State your conditions. The ears of the wayward may hear "demand" when you say what your conditions are, but that's not your problem. You can always resort to: "Nevertheless, my condition for remaining married is no third person/interloper. As well as mutual honesty/transparency/ and working together using a proven marriage recovery program."
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I told him that I needed him to remove his passwords and change his number. He agreed to the password request (still hasn't done it though) but is adamant about the phone number remaining the same because it's work related. He told me that it didn't matter if he changed his number because he could give her his new number anyway, if he wanted to.
I feel like I'm taking baby steps right now because I know that he does not want to be made a prisoner and I don't want to scare him back into her arms.
He told me that he has made the decision to stay with me and that i need to give him some space to deal with what he's done (my interpretation is that he's sad to let her go). \ I am so sorry, Daisy. He is playing you and is not in the least bit serious. "Baby steps" will get you absolutely nowhere except a continued affair. What it will take a complete radical 180 degree change on his part, starting with total honesty [what is the OW's full name, etc?], a committment to affair proof your marriage and a committment to repair the damage. He has done none of that. Your husband has given you a big fat nothing. Extraordinary precautions are not negotiable. I told him that I needed him to remove his passwords and change his number. He agreed to the password request (still hasn't done it though) but is adamant about the phone number remaining the same because it's work related. He told me that it didn't matter if he changed his number because he could give her his new number anyway, if he wanted to. As long as he "wants to", he is not safe. That is the point. Set him down and explain that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you won�t stay in a loveless marriage. Tell him you are willing to give him an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you in the marriage: 1. end all contact with the OM for life 2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle 3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc 4. no more opposite sex friendships 5. complete honesty about her affair<s> � passing a polygraph 6. commit to a program of recovery that restores the romantic love in your marriage Tell him "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on his willingness and ability to make radical changes. His lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. He is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. He must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now he has failed. Unless he makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a husband, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage. Exactly. Except for the gender typo.
Last edited by Pepperband; 02/06/12 08:01 PM.
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Thank you all for your advice and encouraging words. I got the OW's name, WH's phone and email passwords, and the NC note sent. He refuses to change his # because it is a work # and if she EVER wanted to find him (new # or not) it would be easy (ANYONE could find out his number through his work). Unfortunately, in all honesty, I don't see my WH (or even my pre WH) ever getting on board with MB ideals. It's just not who he is. I feel like I'm chasing a fantasy. We were talking today and he was questioning how itd be possible for BOTH of us to be happy if i become his warden. HE has to want to make me happy and be faithful, I shouldn't have to MAKE him. He said he's made the decision to remove the OW from his life. He had feelings for her and needs to be able to let go. But because Im hurt and need to talk I'm KEEPING her in our lives. He wants the OW out of sight out of mind and wants to fall back in love with me again. He feels terrible about what he did and can't imagine the pain im going through but he doesn't want me crying about it all the time (in my defense, I don't cry ALL day, I happen to get random overwhelming emotions at any moment which cause me to cry--all id need is a hug and a few kind words). He explained that he appreciates what im doing and that I shouldn't even WANT him back after what he's done. He also said he's not used to me acting this way toward him (affectionate and attentive) and although he likes it, it feels fake. He also mentioned that he was NOT happy before and is afraid, 1. that my actions are temporary and 2. that the A will make it impossible for ME to sincerely give him what he needs. He knows it will always be on my mind and I could never truly feel the same about him anymore. He doesn't want it to be a thorn in his side. He made a mistake and wants to put it behind. He wants to make sure that I know that he WASNT happy before and A or not, he was contemplating D. I guess Im gonna keep trying to plan A right now. It's just weird when you're doing it to entice the WH when they don't know YOU KNOW about the A. Since the A is out in the open I feel entitled to a mourning period...
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I guess Im gonna keep trying to plan A right now. It's just weird when you're doing it to entice the WH when they don't know YOU KNOW about the A. Since the A is out in the open I feel entitled to a mourning period... This wasn't worded the way I hoped: It feels different when your plan A'ing to entice your WH when they don't know that YOU KNOW about the A. But when the A is out in the open, the BS should be entitled to a mourning period instead of appearing like the A hasn't affected them. (still not sure if that made sense) 
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What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Thank u all!
Just read the FR thread.
Indiegirl, thanks so much for your insight on my comments. It's very helpful!
The point that WH was trying to convey with the number change is that it doesn't matter what he does to remove the OW if he still wants to contact her.(So he does not have to make the effort or have you try to monitor.)
So there's no need to change his number, email, etc because if he WANTED to stray again he will. He's trying to say that it's an unrealistic solution to make me feel safe. (He is not about making you safe right now. He is enjoying the control and your fear.)
As far as the gps goes, am I suppose to tell him about it?
no
He's suppose to agree to install one? This is where I'm confused because couldn't he just park the car somewhere and have the OW meet him and go in her car? Or turn it off somehow?
I appreciate all the advice and want to do the right thing but I need specific instructions. I don't want to put my foot in my mouth or send him sailing away because I did something wrong. (You can't live your life in fear. That is not MB and that is not realistic. You will burn your heart (depleat your LB) out, I am afraid.)
My big dilemma is that I don't think he's remorseful right now.
(He is not. If fact, Dr.H says he deals witn unrepentant WS's quite a bit. That does not mean all hope is lost.)
I know I shouldn't blame myself for not meeting his EN but he's warned me for a really long time and I've taken our relationship for granted by being stubborn (because my ENs weren't being met either). Even if this A didn't happen, we were most likely headed for D. (So, the relationship failing is all your fault tand that gives him the right to cheat? Typical WW fog.)
So I feel like im in no position to be demanding.
Bad choice.
My brief plan A seemed to entice him and I want to make sure that I keep his interest. I really really needed to give him a reason to want me again. He was almost completely out the door.
But just as I'm skeptical that he will not continue or have another A, he's skeptical that I can give him what he needs.
So what do I do? FOLLOW THE MB plan. Listen to what people are telling you...I'd like to find out WHO she is but he said I don't need to know, details only make things worse and he's hurt me enough. He wants to move on and leave the bad behind.
When I mentioned the NC letter he said he's fine with it but what does it prove? He can just go back and tell her that I made him do it (if he wanted to).
He keeps reiterating to me that he said he's done and he's DONE. But, he's a proven liar and cheat.. so his word should not impress you at this point.
I'm open to your advice and please don't think that I'm refusing it or being difficult. I just want to make sure that I'm understood that is why I have questions.
Thank you all!
Last edited by barbiecat; 02/07/12 01:01 PM.
Me; W 46
Him; H 46
2 girls
DD19
DD16
Dated/Married total 28 years.
..I am learning and working on myself.
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Ditto....plus I get the feeling he is saying what you want to hear....
"Get busy living, or get busy dying"...... The Shawshank Redemption.
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We were talking today and he was questioning how itd be possible for BOTH of us to be happy if i become his warden. All waywards say this. You're too controlling. You're a warden. You're an ogre. Blah, blah... He said he's made the decision to remove the OW from his life. He had feelings for her and needs to be able to let go. But because Im hurt and need to talk I'm KEEPING her in our lives. He wants the OW out of sight out of mind and wants to fall back in love with me again. Let's just sweep this under the rug? Everything will be fine. He wants to make sure that I know that he WASNT happy before and A or not, he was contemplating D. But he didn't want to hurt you, so he had an affair instead.
BH(Me)=40
WXW=38
ILYBNILWY: 8/09
DDAY: 8/31/09
Two boys: 8,7
Divorced 3/23/2011
Don't let your eyes refuse to see. Don't let your ears refuse to hear. Or you ain't never gonna shake this sense of sadness. --Ray Lamontagne
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Ditto....plus I get the feeling he is saying what you want to hear.... Not at all, really. He makes it clear that he appreciates my effort but fact remains the same, that he was NOT happy before. He's receptive to my Plan A but I dont feel hes giving me his "heart" (right now). He wants me to KNOW that he had one foot out the door and isnt sure that im serious about improving (or that I can keep it up very long).
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Ditto....plus I get the feeling he is saying what you want to hear.... Not at all, really. He makes it clear that he appreciates my effort but fact remains the same, that he was NOT happy before. He's receptive to my Plan A but I dont feel hes giving me his "heart" (right now). He wants me to KNOW that he had one foot out the door and isnt sure that im serious about improving (or that I can keep it up very long). I thought the same thing too....but yet my WS continues to lie, control, manipulate, shift blame, etc....I want to believe my WS as well....each day it gets clearer and clearer what they are doing. I understand, I want to believe my WS as well.... It is just a bit scary reading you thread....I see so much in yours that parallels mine. Hugs to you....keep snooping...my gut says there is more there.
"Get busy living, or get busy dying"...... The Shawshank Redemption.
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