Road, she has decided to move.

Welcome to SAA forum, Serendame. I am very sorry for all you have endured.

I would not worry about any existing condition he may have, because being an active participnat in an affair will worsen anyone's mental health from what it was before. So exposure and NC would HELP him - enabling helps no one.

Good luck with your exposure. It sounds like he has decent friends at least.

We have made an appointment (several weeks away) with a psychologist who is a specialist in treating these sort of phobias (my husband asked for the appointment himself so I know he is trying).

I can't interpret your meaning here, and my advice is very dependent on one element of this statement.

Does "We have made an appointment.." mean that the session will be with both of you and the psychologist, or solely for your husband?

Frankly, none of us here should be trying to diagnose your husband's condition, and formulating tactics (assuming his psychoses are real) for you to attack his affair while making allowances for his infirmities. It would be critical for YOU to enlist the support of a trained specialist in this matter, hence your need to participate in the session with the psychologist, making your concerns known, and explaining that the need to deter, disrupt, and destroy your husband's infidelity to alleviate YOUR mental anguish, might burden his condition with additional stressors.

There is no reason for her to wait to go to a psychologist to work on saving her marriage. Even if she did, it is highly doubtful this psychologist has any experience in this field. Her husband says he doesn't like being "touched" but he sure doesn't mind being touched by his OW. That is not a cause to delay affair busting tactics.

She has no reason to wait, and every reason to move forward. She has been dealing with this for some time and HER OWN mental and physical well being is at risk.

p.s. I think this woman has called Dr Harley. Her situation is almost identical to a caller who was in the same situation a few months ago.

Our marriage has a specific problem all along as he has a fear of women and intimacy.

ML, this is the issue that I was referring to that should be monitored by the poster. I was under the impression that exposure had already been completed.

ahh, gotcha! No, she has not exposed the affair yet. But I agree with you that he needs to see someone about that problem.

I really wonder if this is the same woman who called Dr Harley a few months ago. The situation is exactly the same [same ages, OW in the same neighborhood, etc] and Dr H told her to MOVE. The woman told him she didn't know if she had the strength to do it. Dr H told her she needed to call her daughter and get her to hold her feet the fire until she gets out of there! Dr H was very concerned about her emotional and physical well being.

TheRoad,
Thanks for your comments. I will take them on board.

Thanks MelodyLane, Indiegirl and Neverguessed. No I have never called Dr Harley on the radio. I live in another country not US. Yes I have been seeing a counsellor whose main interest is looking after carers and his support for me has been very valuable. I have been doing other activities to keep me sane and as he has worked in the mental health field in hospitals, he understands my situation. His sole interest is looking after my mental health not trying to save the marriage. This suits me fine. His input has been valuable since he understands her bipolar, personality disorder, and his Aspergers, (which with all due respect, none of you so far have indicated any knowledge of these three conditions).

When dealing with people with these disorders, firstly, you have to remember that they are people, not something you throw away just because they aren't perfect, secondly you have to approach them slightly differently to solve problems, and thirdly you have to have a bit more patience as they take a bit longer to "get" ideas. Sometimes they have difficulty making decisions (some Aspies) and sometimes they get very obsessive (her and him) and they often have difficulty in taking advice.

Since I found this site, I have been trying to apply the principles found here which are the best I have ever come across. We had been to marriage counsellors some years ago and found them hopeless. However, I also need to take into account the different way my husband's mind works. He is a brilliant man in many fields, but not good with sorting out emotions.

I have last night phoned three of my husband's friends and their partners and his cousin and her family. 9 people in all. I was on the phone for hours. I told them the situation, that he was in deep desperate trouble, and asked for their help. They are all very concerned and caring and have all promised to phone him today. I told them that he wants to break with the OW and needs their loving support and backing for this. One of them wanted to jump in the car and drive 300 k to come up to talk to him. His cousin said a prayer for me and him right away on the phone to me, and said they would all be praying for us.

What lifted me was that although they are his friends, they all expressed concern for my mental health and situation and were very supportive of me.

My husband came around yesterday and looked terrible. He could hardly talk above a whisper and sat crying. He is a mental and physical wreck, not sleeping, not eating. Please remember that this is not a young man (he is 67) and his health is a major concern for me, just getting him through it without a stroke or heart attack is my goal.

With regard to the touching issue. It is a definite "phobia" and not a con. I know, I have been living with this for years. This is why the affair developed. My husband "faked" this before marriage but as sometimes happens with Aspergers, cannot keep it up after marriage.
No I didnt know about Aspergers before marriage, neither did he, and neither does most of the population of the world as it is only since the 1980's that it has been recognised. Most psychologists havent a clue. The person and clinic we are going to see are the worlds leading clinic specialising in this. I have been trying to get him to it for years but have struck obstacles all the way from other psychologists who have rubbished it in their ignorance and put him offside.
However, he now sees the urgency of treatment and so I am very hopeful. I believe that in their assessments, their policy is to include the spouse input so yes it is an appointment for "us".

My plan is to go to them to treat the original disorder which will also help with the addiction to the affair. They will not be doing marriage counselling on the affair, but their input will help the marriage as they specialise in helping Neurotypicals (ie ordinary people) deal with and live with Aspergers people in marriage and in helping Asperger people understand that they have to be more flexible in their dealings with others. We are like two different species.

In parallel, after the affair has ended, the marriage recovery plan will be in following the suggestions of Dr Harley. I have already discussed this with my husband and he is bending to the idea and realises he has to work on the affectionate/touching thing somehow and I have things to work on also.

As I see it, I am dealing with a number of problems all at once. First there is the phobia, then the affair from the phobia, then the compulsive disorder/addiction which has developed and which is more serious in people with autism/aspergers. (Yes I know that reading Dr Harley that the affair without these disorders is also in many cases an addiction).
Then there are the personality disorders involved on top of all of this. I am juggling a number of balls in the air here and trying to pace myself given that I am 66 myself and not young.

Can anyone dig out that radio link for Sera?

If Dr H has answered this q, it would be beneficial for her to lsiten to it...

seradame, I think you are making this much more complicated than is necessary and going about it in a completely backwards manner. You are likely dealing with a "counselor" who has no understanding of the dynamics of adultery and its impact on the wayward or the betrayed spouse and is not qualified to diagnose personality disorders. Has your husband actually ever been diagnosed with any of these disorders or is this armchair quarterbacking by some "counselor?" Has this counselor ever personally diagnosed your husband or the OW? Is he even qualified to do so? Lots of people "work in the mental health field;" it doesnt mean they are qualified to diagnose people.

When someone has personality disorders, Dr Bill Harley, an accomplished, qualified, clinical psychologist with 40 years experience treating personality disorders, addictions, and marital problems, treats the AFFAIR first because adultery behavior mimics all manner of personality disorders and aggravates others. Did you know that?

This is why it is important to take steps to kill the affair FIRST and separate the OW and your H.

Most "counselors" don't understand the dynamics of adultery so they don't understand what they are seeing. If your "counselor" understood the impact of adultery on you, he would be urging you to get away from your husband. He would understand how destructive infidelity is to women. Women have nervous breakdowns and suffer years of post traumatic stress disorder from being exposed to situations like this. And it comes on very quickly.


I beg your pardon, Madam? How dare you characterize my posts in such a snide, false manner? No one told you to "throw" anyone away.

You seem to be ignoring our careful advice and taking the advice of others who are not experienced in dealing with these situations so I am not sure why you wasted our valuable time. I have so many other things I could be doing but I spent my time posting to you only to have my posts completely dismissed apparently. I know I won't spend my time here anymore.

My last suggestion to you would be to write to Dr. Harley at his radio show and get his professional opinion. He will be able to cut through all the crap and give you good, solid professional guidance.

I have to agree, Sera. No one on here has 'thrown' their spouse away. We made it harder for them to carry on their afair. We refused to enable.

If you hold your husbands hand while he cheats on you - he is just going to carry on doing it!

Mentally healthy people destoy themselves with affairs - Affairs seriously affect the mind.

So it would be WORSE to enable an A when someone is not.

I don't have the time.

Fair enough...!

This one might be useful, but the husband has undiagnosed Aspergers.

Radio Clip where Dr. H discusses Aspergers

MelodyLane,
I was not referring to your posts, however, one of the posters (road)did advise me to throw my marriage away and him too. I have found your posts very valuable and have followed them to the best of my ability.
I quote
"Living close to the OW and this affair will never end. Being you will not move it shows that you are not willing to do everything to save this marriage. Being that is the case better to end it."
unquote.
I am in fact arranging to move, and also am in the process of phoning his family and friends and now my family. He has two phone calls already and he is not very happy, walked out on me without saying goodbye.
I wasn't aware that doing plan A was "enabling" him????? (indiegirl).
Have prepared all literature for plan B, sitting in an envelope waiting until finish exposure. Called on another couple today personally and they have promised to phone him, and another of his friends phoned by chance tonight so I told her and she has agreed to phone him too.

Plan A is not enabling because it contains carrot and stick.

Your 'stick' actions such as exposure are not enabling, obviously

I assume you are also doing carrot actions such as looking good and meeting needs etc, which also is not enabling.

But any suggestion to him that you will excuse his A due to medical conditions IS. You need to make it clear that you will not reman married to a cheat, regardless of the 'reasons'

Thanks for the clarification, serenadame. I was stunned when I read your post and I appreciate your clarification.

When you say you have prepared the literature for Plan B, do you mean you are reading it yourself? Are you familiar with Plan B? Do you have the book Surviving an Affair? If not, please get it asap because it will help you understand Plan B and the dynamics of this affair. In the meantime, here is an excellent thread that gives clear direction for Plan B: Plan B

I would focus on exposure and moving out first and THEN work on Plan B. We can help you with this.

Also, on your exposures, have you exposed to the OW's friends and family? That will be a very effective exposure. What about your husband's children and family members?

ok many many months later and he is "home". Came home several weeks ago. However the OW turns out to be mentally ill with Borderline Personality Disorder, and is seeing a therapist. If you know the movie Fatal Attraction this was about a BPD woman. the OW also has complex post traumatic stress disorder from her many years as a prostitute! So we are dealing with a mad person basically.
Well of course the OW is not giving up and texting constantly. He is getting professional help in the way to deal with her. It is complicated. So just letting you know, this is a terrible strain and of course we are just not able to work on any marriage stuff, just being polite and doing the normal household things. Having a few tense moments of course.
Oh yes, and he was diagnosed as Aspergers and I have been diagnosed as Neurotypical.
So just a word of sympathy would be appreciated. There are so many things to deal with, and with the AS in the mix, there is no easy answer.
Thanks.

Oh yes, and I have bought and studied four of the books of Dr Harley. They are great. However, he wont read them (typical AS)and so I am just applying what I can while this nightmare continues.
On the up side, I decided to look for a church and found one where the people are very kind, outreaching and loving so this has been a great help.
Things started to look up once the prayers started. As someone who hasn't prayed for 40 years, this was an eye opener for me. Basically praying for the devil to be combatted and not to win.

Has he changed all his contact information?