Uh-huh. Then why didn't her 'special powers' manage to keep him on the hook?

Your WH is very foggy. He will remain so as long as he continues to work with her. You both will remain in a perpetual state of being triggered until that changes. No wonder you keep talking about the affair - it's still a current issue! He is refusing ownership for his part in this by using fancy-sounding new-age crap that is the equivalent of "the Devil made me do it."

You understand that, if their work climate permitted them the ability to have almost unlimited contact, that the unlimited contact could begin again, correct? This is terribly cruel for you, to have to worry every day if they are going to re-connect.

He needs to leave that job.

This may well by psychosomatic. But take a couple of aspirin if you need to - maybe change your pillow. It could be neck strain.

Not that this is the main issue here, but if the headaches are progressively getting worse, it is most likely the stress of the situation.

I started getting headaches about 2 or 3 months after dday that got worse with time (and with dealing with my WW). This was out of the ordinary for me....up to that point I could probably count on 2 hands how many headaches I had in my entire life.

If they bother you enough, read up on stress induced migraines and see if it matches. I finally had a neurologist suggest a natural supplement for migraines that eased the issue quite a bit once in my system.

I know you have bigger issues, but take care of yourself physically during this as well. It just adds another layer of hurt if you let it go.

yb1,

I very nearly could have written your last post. OW is 15 years younger than I. Ow and H talked on the phone 5-6 times a day, texted each other 8-10 time a day. They ate lunch together 5 times a week, stopping after lunch to make out in the car for half an hour. H was deployed and had an apt. OW came over three times a week for sex on her way to work. It was CRAZY and as I said earlier, it took H a long, long time to recover himself. And it wasn't until he became remorseful and repentant that the marriage had any hope of recovering.

Mel's idea of contacting the radio show is a good one. Your H needs to take the LEAD in recovery, not come along kicking and screaming.

AM

There appears an opportunity for WH to take a temporary work assignment in another state. Question: what would be better for our recovery: him taking the assignment and being separated from OW but also from me (I can't move due to my job, kid, and being upside down on our mortgage) and our family? Or would it be better for him to stay where he is and be with his family while risking occassional sighting of OW. He moved to another department but she seeks eye contact with him in public places occassionally. No other contact (that I can verify) has been made. This dilemma is really tough for me to figure out -- would be grateful for any guidance.

yb, I would move heaven and earth to move with your husband. Even if you have to rent out your home I would do it. That may be your saving grace.

Living apart from him will be a disaster, and working with the OW and seeing her around town will be a disaster. You are asking us to choose between murder and suicide. Both are a disaster and I would choose NEITHER.

You are not locked into just 2 options. You have other options. You just have to be creative and do some brainstorming.

Figure out a way to move away with him.

Thanks Melody! So good to know your support is unconditionally there. I cannot, at this, point, find an option where I could go with WH on this 3-month assignment. I am unable to leave my high school kid alone at home (funny how having a choice between unsupervised husband and teenager, I trust husband infinitely less), leave my job (I work for a non-profit and lots of people depend on me), etc. It is just not an option.

Part of me tells me "to he!! with this" and let be what will be. I am just so tired of fighting for the marriage. I wonder if this is still worth it to me. Maybe this separation from WH could be a test if this marriage has a chance to survive? The recovery seems already too long with too few results. He is doing what's right but really not "feeling" it. We have tons of UA, most of which, granted, was spent on rehashing the A and his behavior. Recently, I have found out (on my own) that over the past couple of years, he has been cultivating very chummy frienships (most, albeit, on the internet) with former interns (most young and female, of course). I am not sure how to deal with this new discovery. Although the e-mail exchanges were mostly benign, and fell within a sort of friendly-professional realm, I was suprised with how much time he devoted to the young women with his career and life coaching advice, while completely neglecting me in the process. He claims he is this supportive with both female and male colleagues, but, naturally young females tend to be less confident and more "needy," therefore most of these "frienships" were with females.

He volunteered a piece of information about one such young female associate, who apparently, let him know in no uncertain terms that she was "interested." He claims that at that time he was "committed" to the marriage and thus did not act upon it. What is most unnerving to me is that I met this young female in a social setting and she, nevertheless, had no qualms to pursue a married man. This is one in the series of his arguments how the A was really true love and how he, otherwise would not have risked his marriage for some inconsequential fling, despite having many opportunities to do so.

What is your take on all of this? He agreed to stop "nurturing" these friendships but claims that if I continue to make these additional demands, it may no longer be worth it to him to stay in the marriage when he has to compromise his true self and need to help others.

If it is not worth it for him to eliminate detructive marriage wrecking tactics, then your future is not bright in this marriage. It won't be long before he is into another affair. It is obvious he does not care about hurting you. He clearly places his "true self," [whatever that means ]no matter how desructive to you, over your safety. He is what Dr Harley would call a "freeloader." You are not safe with such a person.

Check this out, from Dr Harley's book, Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders:

Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.

Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.

Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carpet, replacing the roof, and even doing some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.

Renters believe Our relationship is temporary. You may be right for me today and wrong for me tomorrow.

Buyers believe We are together for life.

Renters believe Our relationship should be fair. What I get should balance what I give.

Buyers believe We both contribute whatever it takes to make our relationship successful.

Renters believe As needs change, the relationship may end if needs are difficult to meet.

Buyers believe As needs change, we will make adjustments to meet new needs.

Renters believe Criticism may prompt me to change if it's worthwhile for me to do so.

Buyers believe Criticism indicates a need for change.

Renters believe Sacrifice is reasonable as long as it's fair.

Buyers believe Sacrifice is dangerous and to be avoided.

Renters believe Short-term fixes are fine.

Buyers believe long-term solutions are necessary.

Let me put this another way, in order for your marriage to recover, your husband has to make radical 180 degree changes in his behavior. Otherwise your marriage will not recover, it will just experience more affairs.

I agree with your freeloader characterization. At this point, I am not sure how do I compel him to make these changes? Should he offer to make them voluntarily? Fat chance. Do I demand that he make these changes? Do I collect them into one big heep and dump them on his lap in one big swoop? Do I present them to him piece meal as he slowly recovers from the A fog? It has been now nearly three months since exposure and NC implementation. He appears to have recovered from withdrawal, but he has not yet fully vested himself emotionally into our relationship, I think. It all feels very contrived - I can see that he tries to do what should be appropriate in a recovery but doesn't appear like he truly "feels" it. He is asking me to give him and us more time to recover before he starts showing emotions. Do I give him more time? I am at my wit's end. Sorry, I needed to vent. Today was a tough day for me.

I just read thru this thread and felt compelled to add my voice to the excellent advice you're getting ... I think you should demand that your husband agree to MB counseling with you, either with MB or a counselor who's on board with it. You need the support of someone who your H respects to make any progress. I don't think this is a situation that you can handle alone. I'd make it an ultimatum. He needs to learn a completely new mindset regarding you and your marriage.

yb, have you posted here before? Your sitch sounds very familiar.

So we had another blowout rehash of the A, which led to my confronting him about his internet friendships with young females. He was pounding his chest claiming that these were nothing but mere friendships which filled his emotional need for conversation. I countered in a classic MB angry outburst with a question why he didn't seek me to engage in conversation and why he did not choose to nurture this type of a relationship with me. He admitted, yet again, that this was pre-affair when he gave himself a permission to check out emotionally out of the marriage and was planning to seek divorce once our youngest was off to college (of course I had no clue, thinking that he was overworked, stressed and thus distant). Now, post-A, he claims, he is committing to the marriage. He voluntarily gave me the password to his work e-mail account (which he previously refused to do so claiming he would be violating his company's confidentiality policy and which I was previously secretly monitoring anyway) to prove that he will no longer engage in these types of "friendships." As a result of sleuthing of his older e-mail account, I found that these friendships also included business dinners alone with the female interns when he was traveling, and also calls by these interns to him at his hotel (he knew that any such phone calls made to his cell phone account would be discovered by me immediately).

He seems to be making progress in the emotional department and is being attentive and more affectionate. Today, he commented on my hair style and color which I changed about a month ago but which he just noticed now. I wonder if confronting him about and having him explain the entire scope of his behavior (not just the A), which was based on the pattern of his continuous emotional withdrawal from the marriage in the past four - five years is finally making him realize the destruction that he caused to our marriage, or, maybe, I am just too naive?