BH did bring it up, just a few days ago- he wasn't necessarily asking, but wasn't sure if it would be a good idea or not. I put in on the list I gave him- it's up to him if it's something that will make him feel more safe or less safe, I guess.

After talking to BH about the post-nup, it seems the type of thing he is thinking of is more along the lines of "me signing away 'fill in the blank'" not only if I were to stray again or choose divorce, but even if he were to decide it wasn't going to work.

His reasoning was that it would make me trust him, just like I am asking him to trust me. Obviously, we are a long way off from this point of instituting something like this- because he would have had to have decided that recovery was something that he wanted to do. Just curious if anyone has come across something like this before.

Doro,

Most of what I've seen or heard about post-nups is to include any future infidelity - not as an additional fail-safe to past infidelity.

It is, more or less, putting your money where your mouth is;

"I will not stray again, and if I do, I take (next to) nothing from the marriage)."

It would state something like you would be entitled to no more than 25% of marital assets should divorce occur to another infidelity.

To reiterate; this is not about any former affairs, this is part of providing protection from future affairs.

Hope that makes more sense.

HHH - MirrorMirrors wife got a post nup written up to say it would leave her with nothing if the marriage ended for any reason. It was her way of saying she was dedicated to making the marriage happy as well as safe.

I think it all boils down to the couple and what the BS needs in order to feel safe and less resentful.

Sounds like Doros BH wants to receive trust before he gives it as a way of verifying.

And for what its worth I too would insist on a 'no matter what ending' post nup. I wouldnt want to be the only one taking risks.

Yeah- I think that's where his thinking is- receiving the trust. Not just focused on punishing me if I strayed again. I'm not quite sure when we would institute such a thing? Mainly b/c he's not even sure he's interested in recovery right now. You know?

(Shhhhh, keep this quiet, but rejoice privately!)

DoroM, I hinted at some good news in one of your previous posts, and you never hazarded a guess at my reference. The good news keeps coming, and it appears you remain...unaware...of the item.

Just keep working on YOU, and follow the guidelines here. You are doing fine.

Hmmm...are you calling me dense? I guess I didn't guess- I thought maybe you were referring to the fact that BH is actually talking to me/Steve and hasn't filed for divorce yet? Something else?

Doro you would have to be a BS to understand, but it is q positive to hear he is trying to work out ways you can help him to overcome resentment. He is not sure he can do it - but the idea seems to keep recurring in his mind and you keep being presented with opportunities -things you can do for him, even if he is not q sure what.

There I have just totally violated the 'shhhhh' order

I didn't even SEE the 'shhhh' order until now- it was little and at the top of the post. I definitely am looking at the positives- I think it's positive that he still talks to me, much less is talking with Harley.

It boils down to....


















... PoJA!


I, personally, wouldn't do a "no matter what" even if NGB offered - that's just me. I've got a percentage of this marriage to carry. My largest request is fidelity.

...the fact that BH is actually talking to me...

Obviously the brain thinks very well on crutches!

Yes, friend, ANY conversation, short of "Flick you!" is important and encouraging. No one need waste words on the way out!

Okay, it's been a week, DoroM. What news can you give us?

General update- I�m still at my parents house out of state. We�ve been talking via skype almost every day. It�s generally pretty painful for us both. Last week, I was able to go to the other side of the state to visit with my best g-friends from college- all of whom were in my wedding. (no, none of them knew about A- b/c I knew they�d kick my a$$ and/or tell on me). They were all devastated by what I�d done, but still love me�for some reason. It was really good to get some perspective on some things from people who know me so well, and can nicely call me out.

Being in the real world (as opposed to the couch at my parents house), gave me some opportunity to �practice� protecting my EN�s and keeping EP�s. When I told Dr. Harley last time we talked that I was stuck at home and wouldn�t be able to �practice� too much, he said, �Good! Then you won�t be able to mess up too much!� (While I suppose I always have the internet and phone at my fingertips, other than that, it would be reallllllly hard to break an EP while I�m here at my parent�s house�.) I was faced with a few situations where I would be home alone w/ my friend�s husbands, so I found somewhere else to be until they got home. It was sort of funny(?)/ironic(?)/teaching moment(?) to me, b/c in one situation, my friends H is one of the biggest jerks I�ve ever met. I actively dislike him - as in dislike him so much, if we were the last ones on the planet, the population would die with us. So in my head, I was thinking, �seriously?! That would never happen, is it necessary to sit at a coffee shop and wait for my friend to get home?� but then the other side of me thought, �well, I guess that�s why they�re labeled, �extraordinary��, turned out to be a moot issue in that instance, b/c my friend was home the entire time. But it was good to have that little discussion with myself. Per Dr. Harley, I�ve been sharing all of these instances with BH, so he knows what I�m doing/thinking.

I�ve been contacting a few lawyers regarding a possible post-nup. (holy crap those people make too much money!) We�ve talked about it a little bit, and it�s not something we�d do until BH makes the decision to try recovery, as it would most likely be a �if we ever divorce, no matter what clause� and we can�t afford a lawyer right now anyway.

Emailed with the pastor of my church at home regarding possible older woman mentor/accountability person. He wants me to talk with this Christian IC, who I made an appt with for later this week. I did express my skepticism regarding IC, but I thought I would at least give her a try.

BH has 2nd appointment with Steve tomorrow, I have mine on Wednesday morning. I get my huge cast off on Wednesday (get a nice little removable boot for the next month), and then I�ll be flying back home Wednesday afternoon. It�s a little awkward situation b/c BH does not really want to be in the same house with me 24/7. I met BH soon after I first moved to our city, so most of our friends were his friends first, and since I�ve been gone pretty much for last 2.5 years, I don�t have many of my friends here. So the options I do have, are not good ones- live in boyfriends, alcohol, partying,people telling me they just want me to be 'happy', etc. I do not really want to put myself in those situations, for obvious reasons. Since I�m not working right now d/t broken leg, we can�t afford a 2nd place� we can barely afford our one place. He has been understanding about this, but it is tough. My parents have told me I better get back home�they think I need to be near him (as do I), so are not really rolling out the red carpet for me past my initial surgery recovery.

We're going to do the 40 Day in the word(I guess churches all over the world are doing rick warrens thing for next 6 weeks). I guess we're sort of doing it "together" but separate, as of right now. Maybe the appropriate terminology is that we are doing it 'during the same time period'.

I may be forgetting something. But that's the gist of it, I think. I ordered HNHN and LB, but I think they had to go cut some trees down in order for the book to be printed. Thinking of saving my 2nd run through of SAA for my plane ride home...nothing says "I don't want to talk to you" like a box of kleenex and SAA.

hi doro. i just wanted to pop in and tell you how great you're doing. your conversation with yourself, analyzing whether or not to go directly to your friends, shows how far you've come since post 1. way to go, girl! keep up the good work. sounds like bh is contemplating, which is fantastic news for you.

"Practicing" your enforcement of EPs is a great start, to what will now have to be your lifestyle.

Now, stop thinking of getting back with FBH with doubt. That is the wrong paradigm, and will most certainly come through to him in your (unattractive) moods and behaviors. You have a job to do. You have to work with him to heal him - that's it! It cannot be about you, or even your joint relationship. Everything you do must be FBH-focused. And your mindset must be one of being enthused with, and committed to, the task at hand.

Hopefully, after his session with Steve, he'll at least be open to sharing with you what he may need (and his "need" will NOT be that you and he remain apart). Without that input, you'll be limited to trial-and-error - harder, but still necessary.

We've talked about this, he looks at the list and only expresses doubt about me being able to keep them, b/c he thinks it seems too hard. I told him, yeah, it is going to be hard at first, b/c it's something I'm not used to, and I'm going to have to dissect every interaction, and make plans, and really think through to make sure I'm making the right decision and following through on my end, but eventually, like all things, if you do them long enough, it turns into a habit and it's second nature- like you said, turns into a lifestyle.
I feel like most of the time, that's all I can think about/want to do- is help him heal, and meet his ENs. I would be a big fat liar if I said the 'me!me!me!' doesn't pop into my head sometimes. I've been more able to identify it when it happens and tell myself I'm full of crap. It also helps to read other FWW old threads, b/c I can see it in their posts, and then I'm like, "oh crap,I'm guilty of xyz".

He filled out the EN's questionnaire, and I've read it- so I know at least relating to that. And I think that's what has me the most frustrated-the thought that I so badly want to help him heal, love him, meet his ENs, but that I may not be let in to do it. It's going to be really hard to meet his ENs if I'm never seeing him. We've been apart for SOO long...we've now been apart for longer than we were together, so I guess that's where the doubt is creeping in, b/c I'm worried about not being able to spend any time together.

This all sounds good Doro. I know fighting on the side of right is not as satisfying as gettin the whole 'what I want' deal in a giftbox. But you are doing all the right things and that is admirable.

I think I took SAA with me on an international trip, 2 weeks after D-Day. Yeah, I made sure no one could see the cover.

You're onto something big, Doro: Time together.

Time apart was how you & he got off the same wavelength in the first place. I'd say it was the main vulnerability that had existed in my marriage before the affair. (TWC & I weren't even all that conscious of it, because we mostly got along well & didn't fight about much back then. But we spent way too much time "together, but apart.") Combined with my getting too lazy & selfish to maintain my boundaries when they got tested, it was a vulnerability almost fatal to our marriage. And the changes we've made in our lives to carve out more time together have been huge in getting us to a better place.

I don't want to give you an overly rosy outlook. Our situations aren't parallel in all respects; my wife & I had had over 16 mostly very good years as a foundation to rebuild upon, and I'd only gotten into this kind of mess once, not multiple times. But I think it's a 'positive' that you're realizing that not only can't you meet your husband's needs very well, or even adequately, if you're not together, but of course he can't meet yours. Which in turn sure can get you thinking "me, me, me...", and you know where that leads. The 'positive' is that at least, being cognizant of how you got there gives you a better chance of not going there again, I think.

It's gotta be hard, not knowing if he wants you around, or whether he'll still want you around in a week, and it's gotta be hard not knowing if he'll still want you around when the 90 days are up. This is where you get to show that you're all-in. Our marriage counselor told me to imagine it like I was hacking through a gnarly forest or jungle to get to my wife, 'til my arms were dead & my hands were blistered & bleeding, without being able to see her -- maybe hear her at times, but anyway, my mission was just keep going to my assigned spot & to trust, without knowing, that she'd be there in the clearing when I got there.

And if he's there, then you'll be able to start moving together. The fact that he he's done an EN questionnaire is pretty impressive. At any rate, it's a ray of hope.

Give him his space if he asks, but make sure he knows you're there for him if ever & whenever he wants you to be.

Hi, Doro, I'm Mirrormirror. I just popped in to explain about the post-nup thing. My wife VOLUNTEERED and did the leg work all by herself, even before I said that I was willing to take her back. It is a very important cornerstone of our "new", marriage, as she will get practically nothing, if we divorce, FOR ANY REASON. What it did for me was to show the TOTALITY of her commitment to, first healing ME, and then to building a better marriage than the one we had. Have you ever mentioned to your husband about you taking a polygraph? Another of my wife's ideas is that she is willing to take a poly ANY TIME I WANT HER TO, 24/7/365, no questions asked. I am PROUD to say that I believe that she is the posterchild of what a FWW can and should be, but none of this would have been possible without the support and guidance of the Harleys. Hey, I'm beginning to think that we OWN the love bank. LOL

Hey, thanks for posting. I volunteered a post-nup, but I didn't originally put it on my EPs b/c I knew it would offend my BH (and he said I was right). It is something that BH and I have talked about-and I've called multiple lawyers to get info. I talked with Dr. Harley this morning, and he was not advising that at this point, said BH and I could revisit it later, but that he hoped it wouldn't come to that. We don't have any assets(more like a whole lot of liabilities), so there is nothing we own, I could walk away with now anyway.

Question for you, relating to your post-nup. Your wife gets practically nothing, but would she forced to pay you anything(support/etc?) after D? Just curious.


As to the polygraph, no- I haven't brought that up yet,but am more than happy to do it. BH has asked very few details relating to A, and did not initially even want to talk to me. He's stated to me, that he 'doesn't want to have to be a private eye' etc, when I bring up internet tracking/phone gps. I installed a internet tracker thing and gave him the info, but it didn't work remotely (we are in two separate states right now), so he said when I get back, we can decide together which one would be best. I am happy that he has any interest in keeping track of what I'm doing- and would be more than thrilled if he cared enough to want me to take a polygraph test (at anytime in the future). He might be receptive to it now, as he has been interacting more with me/talking with Steve.