This is my first post here. There's a lot to say, so I'm sorry this has to be long.

I found this site back in September, when I discovered that we were indeed not poor, barely scraping by, but that my husband was spending hundreds at a time at a stripclub, several times each month, until the money was gone, and atm withdrawals of 400-500 dollars occurring on those days. I figured out how to get into the bank account when he came home with hundreds of dollars worth of motorcycle gear (helmet, jacket, gloves, etc) on the second day of the riding class he decided to take, that also cost money.

I've been scrimping, thinking we were poor. He'd always say we've got only 100 or 150 to lived on and I need to hold off until payday, so I'd hunker-down and wait two weeks, and then immediately, it was another two weeks, and another, etc. I've rewired bras with clotheshanger wire, when the underwire broke. I've mended and repaired everything, and didn't spend a penny I didn't have to.

He, on the other hand, would go out and get whatever his heart desired, and at that point, I worked out how to get into the bank account, and discovered the charges to the stripclub, and the huge atm withdrawals. I was devastated. I confronted him about it, and we talked about it, and he promised not to do it again.

Over the years our relationship had deteriorated into something miserable. I'd grown resentful of him being lazy and not helping me with the kids, leaving it to me to do everything, including yard work. If he was home, he'd always be watching tv, eating chips when I'd come by. He had a thesis to complete to finish an 18month degree, and had extended the deadline three years. By now, I doubt it can be done, and he squandered the opportunity to complete this degree, but all along, I wasn't going to ask anything of him that would take time away from working on that blasted thesis, assuming he would work on it.

For years, he had been grumpy, unhappy, and would make us all miserable with his unpleasant mood. Every weekend he was home, he'd begun going on "erands" to catch up at the office, or work on the thesis somewhere quiet, or various errands. He'd be gone 6-8hours and come home around 9, 10, or 11 o'clock at night. In April, he started a job two hours away that had him traveling a lot. He would spend a week there, coming home some of the nights, but not all, and then there'd be a week in another state. Then back for a week, and then another week or two in another, different state. We saw very little of him from April until the beginning of September, when he returned from one of these two week trips, and attended this motorcycle riding class that he decided to take.

So, I discovered this site, read the articles, we talked, he became affectionate and nice. We started working on our relationship. He became pleasant to have around, started spending money on me and our girls, and the house. He became affectionate, I became intimate. When I discovered more charges to that place, I told him it's either them or me, and I picked a very intimate time to tell him that. He said he picks me, and won't go back, and I thought that was that.

Then I developed a horrible case of genital herpes. He said one of the lap dancers went all the way, and he didn't know it was going to happen and it was a surprise. I really didn't believe that, because I don't think they just volunteer that up like that, but whatever. I was in hell with the pain, and after about a week, I was in such pain, I had to go to the urgent care clinic. He had also developed it, and was also diagnosed with it. I thought this would show him how dirty, nasty those places are, and would make him stop going there. He went again to the club three times within two weeks of me getting the outbreak.

I thought our relationship was improved. We were affectionate, and intimate. I assummed he had a sex addiction, and figured it would be an easy fix to manage. We continued "improving" through November, and halfway into December, before I discovered his gmail account left open on the home computer.

I learned on December 16th, that he was having an affair, and it was ongoing. He was still seeing her, and saw her several days before I found out. He is home now, so I"ll have to write more later. Hope this isn't too long.

CC,

You need to gather evidence and expose this affair at a bare minimum. Your H has been getting away with murdering your marriage for far too long.

I and my W, were working with a fiend of my W's and her H on some of the MB concepts, when I found out the H had given her an STD, I stopped trying, so I'm a bit disgusted by what your H did to you.

God Bless
Gamma

hello, crimson, and welcome to mb. i am so sorry about what has happened to prompt your post. i am sure some of the vets will stop by soon to give you much better advice than what i can offer.

you have managed the bank account - now apply those skills to his email, any social networking, his phone, etc. is his phone android? if so, you'll have a pretty easy time, especially if he doesn't know you're looking. have you checked out the "investigation" part of the board?

So sorry you are here, CC.

He has an addiction to cheating on you and very poor boundaries with members of the opposite sex.

Addicts dont do well in the light of day - they need privacy to continue their addiction. So expose.

Snoop like a blood hound. Get a VAR, a GPS in his car, spyware on phone and computer.

Then expose what he is doing to everybody. Make this a loving act and ask people to use their influence with him and help you save your marriage.

We will help you draw up a proper, effective exposure plan. You have enough evidence to expose with his confesion and the STD, but you will need to find out who the OW is and if she is married/has a boyfriend or any family you can expose to. Running her off should be easy as she prob only sees your WH as one of many punters. She is prob less invested than he is so if you can bear pressure on her life to leave him alone, that should work.

Dear Crimson,

Please think back to the time you were young and envisioned marriage: a partnership where you loved and cared for one another.

Then, read your own post again, carefully. Where is the love and cherish and help each other part in this???
Now think back to the beginning of your relationship: Was it ever a two way street?

For your marriage to work, your husband must make radical, I mean RADICAL changes. Do not settle for less than a real marriage.

I welcome and applaud you for finding this site. Please read up on the wonderful material here. Regardless of how your husband comes around, you will grow here. But please promise me, you will stop living like you have. Slavery is illegal and he has not been treating you as a wife.


May God bless you,

Happyheart

Sorry I had to cut and run like I did. I, eventually will probably share this message board with him, but right at first, I didn't want to have it open, so I had to make a quick choice: post as is, or delete and start over later. I don't have a lot of time to myself, and really didn't want to redo it. And as I saw his car pull in, it didn't occur to me to cut and paste to get later. Anyway, here's the rest of it:

Because he forgot to close out his gmail account after sending a "how are you doing?" post to a stripper the morning of Dec. 16th, I got to see his account for the first time. I discovered that he was going to the stripclub to see this particular stripper, MJ, and because she was having financial difficulties, he would withdraw 400-500 from the bank to GIVE to her, on top of the charges that he would rack up at the club. We never had any money, plus if we did, we should have been paying off our credit card debts, so I tried to live as frugally as I could, and made everything stretch, including wearing clothes with holes and shoes with splits and repaired with gorilla glue.

So they sent messages back and forth, to inquire and affirm when each would be there, so they would see one another. And he financially supported MJ, to the detriment of me and his daughters, who were wearing hand-me-downs and whatever I could afford to get from the consignment store or clearance racks.

So then I saw some e-mails that were intimate of nature, to AS, and discovered an affair that began Easter Sunday with an exchange of e-mails about themselves. He started this new job that kept him away from home a lot. So where he told me he was, wasn't necessarily where he actually was, although the week or two long trips to other states, I do know he went to, but when he was at the job two hours away, he'd "stay" to get stuff done, or work on that d@m^ thesis.

There were emails from May onward of lust and longing, there were several from both that referred to intercourse, and it's quality, and regret of its absence. There was an attachment of a hotel confirmation that was sent to her, and the immediate reply, "I'll be there." They went to a major league baseball game, to the big aquarium, to a beautiful historic city a few hours away, that I've been to briefly only once, years ago. There were suggestions of plans and ideas for day trips and things to do together. When he returned from the two week trip the end of August, he sent her a picture of his privates while driving, and I accidentally x'ed gmail out and couldn't get back in.

I did, however, copypasta all the emails I saw from both MJ and AS. I searched and found receipts in his stuff in the house when he was away, and one night between midnight and 4am in his car. I've got a stack tucked away. I got into the phone records, and because he is always on his phone, I have a pretty good record of where he was at different times of the day, dating back through all those months, based on the phone records. I know he was shacked up with her for 13 days in June, because one of his trips was to her town, and he spent most of each of his 4 day holiday vacations with AS: Memorial, Labor, 4th, as well as several times taking leave from work to spend with AS. The last time they were together was immediately after a family day Dec. 10th. We drove 2hrs there, enjoyed a banquet, meet-and-greet of the families, speeches, a children's cakewalk and all the kids sat on Santa's lap and got a bag of assorted toys and treats. About 3pm, he walked us to the car, and we left. He told me he needed to stay to get some stuff done. Later I found out he left and went to her, spent the rest of the weekend with her, drove to work on Monday morning, and came home to me Monday night. I found out that Friday, and when I confronted him, he first denied having an affair, then admitted to one in 2008 with a woman who owned a small husband-wife coffee shop/ icecream store. I asked if he ever had any other affairs, and he said no. Then I bomb-dropped the woman's name, and he reluctantly admitted to it. I asked how he could still be with her since we were getting on so well since September, and he said he didn't want to give her up, and didn't know whether we were going to work out, or if my change was temporary. He promised to break off all contact with both AS and MJ, and delete all contacts from his phone. About a week later, I checked up to see if that happened, and there was one reply from both on his phone. From AS, the jezibel, a comment to a picture he had sent the day before, and MJ, the money-pit, suggesting he come by to say goodbye in person. I know how easy it is to click on a sender's name and hit reply, so I was upset that he'd hang onto one e-mail from each. I told him I found them, and he assured me he only missed deleting them, that he wasn't saving them. And he told me AS tried to contact him via text on Jan 4th, and he reminded her to stop contacting him, and she apologized. The phone records of the texts seem to agree with his story, and there have been no other calls or texts between them, and his phone hasn't made or received any more calls from, or en-route to, her town.

I honestly never suspected an affair, certainly not one that would be necessary since we were getting on so well after the first confrontation in September. He treated me like he did when we were dating, and newly married. Of course, I pushed away all the resentment I had been stewing on, of all the years of neglect, the financial hardships that were not shared by him, since he always bought whatever he wanted, as soon as he perceived a need or want for it, and left me to handle three children. The oldest was only 34 months old when the third was born. There's a 15 month and 18 month gap, and I was utterly exhausted, and drained, and living with depression, which I only this month began to receive treatment for. I made an effort to be available to his "needs" and boy does he have "needs." For about three months, I was convinced it was a sex addiction, and he promised to stop the porn, and stop going to stripclubs. So our relationship seemed improved from September onward, except that he'd keep promising very convincingly, not to go to the stripclubs, and I'd find out and confront him, and he'd promise, again convincingly, not to do it again, over and over until now I don't believe him when he looks so honest and tells me it's over with all of them. I rely on the phone records, and bank records, and receipts that I can find, and for what it's worth, Latitude app, so I know he's not calling or visiting her. I do think he's not going to see AS again, but I don't believe however that he won't start up something with someone new.

I feel like I'm standing in the ocean where one wave has just crashed into me, and I'm in that lull where I know another one will crash into me. It's only a matter of time. I began seeking treatment for depression, because for years now, I've been so miserable, I have begged God to let me die. For years, it was clear to me that I mattered to no one, except my children who need me. I've gotten no support from either family to help with the kids, and I didn't want to keep living. I refuse to do anything that brings this about, because I'm well aware how this would destroy my children, setting them up for a lifetime of issues to overcome that I refuse to put them through that. However, I've prayed for cancer, and to just die. I knew he was miserable all those years, and he was withdrawn and grumpy towards me, but he still wanted "it," but he wanted me to want it, and I really didn't, so I felt so terribly used.

Now, it's been two months since I discovered the affair. I'm taking an antidepressant for a week now, and am still crying whenever I think about it. The 14th, I cried so hard I couldn't breathe, and almost threw up, my hardest cry yet. I can't reconcile how he could have abandoned me in the he// I was living in, with all the work I had to do in the yard, with chickens and the pool, and raising the kids, and telling me I need to do his only outdoor job: mowing. Of course this is because it would take away from the time he could spend at the stripclub or with AS.

I cannot reconcile with myself that he could leave me so bad off, and go away to enjoy himself with someone else who has the time and money and freedom to travel and do interesting spontaneous things.

I also cannot reconcile with myself that he would continue with them after we were relating to one another so well.

Thank you all for the replies. I didn't want to address them until I finished the meat of my story.

Gamma: It is disgusting that I've got a permanent STD, attached to my spine, like in any good sci-fi movie. And no, it wasn't from some lapdance-gone-too-far. He talked to AS after I broke out with it, and she got herself tested, and lo-and-behold, she has it too, but said she didn't ever have an outbreak. I'm not believing this woman. The first ob is the worst, and based on the three weeks of pain I went through, I don't believe for a minute that she didn't knowingly have it and gives it to whomever she's with with wild abandon. She's not a good woman.

Letty: Yes, I have made a folder that's now loaded with receipts, bank records, phone records, and all the juicy emails and pictures, including his private-pic, from both women before I accidentally x'ed the connection. I've been checking his location with Latitude, but that doesn't work well, but I can see where he is when he uses his phone for calls and texts. I will have to research other ways to monitor him.

Indiegirl: You are right about boundaries. He's extremely flirty with women. He's like a fisherman casting his line, and reeling in whatever bites.
He has a female friend who attended the school with him where he owes them a thesis to finish. She's about ten years younger than him and me, but I think right now she's in a relationship, and not looking to my husband, but it bothers me that they will from time to time chat on the phone for an hour. I'm concerned that at some point, if her relationship goes rocky, and I don't keep mine happy, they would easily get together. And if not her, any of the other women he flirts with.

I knew OW1, and know about OW2. Both affairs were women who were ten years older than me. And neither is attractive IMHO. OW1 ran a coffeeshop/ icecream parlor with her husband. I'm mortified that we continued going there, with me not knowing, and not understanding why she was so snotty to me, until one day the husband was rude to my husband and we quit going. I think it was disgusting that he was doing the man's wife and bellying up to the table expecting the man to serve us icecream.

I've learned about OW2 through her facebook. She's never married, and trolls around the Ashley Madison dating site for married cheaters, because, according to my husband, she can break it off with guys by threatening to tell the wife. She works, and travels internationally for fun. My husband is obviously attracted to the adventure and sponteneity she could provide. Streetview on googlemap showes her house to be very nice and upscale. He flushed all of our money down the stripper moneypit, and ran off with international woman of mystery to have an exciting time, all the while not considering for a minute what he was leaving me to.

HappyHeart: Marriage is a partnership. I don't know what to say except that ours was really awful for a really long time. He got his way, because he would grump so badly, I finally gave up trying to get him to do anything different than he was wanting to do, whether it was to spend time with us when he decided to go somewhere; or to buy the latest phone, attend a motorcycle class and buy 650 dollars worth of gear, or buy whatever he decided he needed or wanted.

Thank you all for your responses. I appreciate your input.

Crimson --

This man, your husband, is vile.

From your description, he has absolutely no motivation to end this behavior.

I would recommend that you seperate from him immediately -- with a long list of requirements for him to meet, if he wants you to consider staying married to him.

Get to an attorney IMMEDIATELY to learn your options. You probably have more than you think. You can garnish his wages for child support and alimony. That way YOU and your children get paid before his strippers.

Disgusting. Please get away from him.
He also sounds like a master manipulator, so I think cutting off all communication with him is vital!
Sounds like he's gone all the time anyway - so removing him from your home should be easy.

Let him do the work -- if he wants to save the marriage and family.

Wow, reading this made me sick. And this is coming from a wayward husband. The other posters here will offer good advice, please consider it. I think immediate separation and cutting off all communication are good starting points. Talk to an attorney and look at your options and maybe that will bring him to his senses and realize the mess he's created through his selfish and destructive actions. Do your best to take care of yourself and your children.

Well, he has not contacted either woman, as promised. His behavior towards me is like when we dated. The money is being spent on our family now, and I know where it's going. He's been driving home 2hrs every night, except a couple times staying with his mom, which I get confirmation about. He's very overwhelmed with work, and this thesis that isn't getting done, and the commute, and needing to find a new job, and so on, that there hasn't been time to follow this program, like we ought to.

I was shocked when he told me his biggest need is admiration. I was sure it was SF. He apparently got affirmation from the women, that I wasn't giving him, and I don't know what to do about admiration, since I don't really admire him right now.

I've been doing my best to be the loving attentive wife, and had been doing a good job trying to move past the past, and not think about it too much, and I believe he's stopped contact with those women, but I've been bothered by his lack of understanding of how susceptable he is to doing it again, why he shouldn't talk on the phone to a female friend for an hour, why he shouldn't try to get another job that requires a lot of travel, and how he doesn't get that I can and should never trust him again.

I'm bothered that he so easily justifies his leaving because he claims to have tried, and because of my unwillingness to desire him, not just willingness, but he expected me to initiate. He told me last night that he was resentful that he'd come home from work and I would never have supper ready. I think, if that occurred, it must have been when I was dealing with the children when they were really little. I've been cooking for quite a few years now, and don't remember this, but I do remember long time ago his complaining about always cooking on Sunday mornings, but that's evolved into what's called "Daddy Breakfast" so I don't see why he should have complained about it, but I don't remember him cooking every night. Of course, most of their early childhood was a blur, and maybe I don't remember who cooked what.
I started seeing a psychologist last week, who after talking with me one hour, basically said what Lexxxy and T2S just said. He said, without meeting my husband, that he has a personality disorder. He said I have a lovely personality, but that I'm seriously, chronically depressed. He suggested without doubt that we should both get attorneys and divorce. He said my husband is one of those who ought to have a sign around his neck that reads, "Don't Marry Me." I was really shocked, but figured, like I've read on here, there are a lot of counselors out there who are quick to advise divorce. I decided he must be one of those, and besides, how could he diagnose my husband, sight unseen, even though I was as honest and straight forward with him, as I am here. It nagged at me, and this week, I've been feeling worse and worse, even though I've started taking an antidepressant. Yesterday, I looked up info on personality disorders on the mayo health website, and I'm sorry to say, that he pretty much fits the bill of Narcissistic personality disorder. There are a few of the characteristics that I am not sure of, and a couple I'm sure don't apply to him, but the vast majority of the list fits him. I was hoping to fix our marriage, but I wonder if someone with a Narcissistic personality disorder could be turned around, and if it's even possible to make this work. Thanks again for the input.

These are the basic requirements that a cheater must meet before a BS can consider staying married. As your husband is a serial cheat, there will prob need to be a few more. Such as him not working with any women for example. But I will let the vets chime in there. These are the ones to get started with.

I dont think your H will agree to them because I think he is entitled, selfish and dangerous to you.

However tell him this is what it will take to earn your forgiveness:

1. end all contact with the OW for life - NC letters

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone, passwords, money etc

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about affair<s> � passing a polygraph

6. commit to a program of recovery that restores the romantic love in your marriage

Tell him "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on his willingness and ability to make radical changes. His lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. He is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. He must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now he has failed. Unless he makes a 180 degree turn in his approach to what it means to be a husband, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if he won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.

I would give him a day to agree or he get his bags on the step.

Have you exposed yet?

hello cc. you are made of sterner stuff than you think, considering that you are managing to be a loving wife in the face of such dramatic treachery.

what is your support system like? do you have family? does he? have you spoken with the ice-cream lady's husband? your husband is very entitled...it is going to be a huge transition. if you decide to continue saving your marriage, you need to do it on your terms. i'm looking forward to seeing more voices here. i'm sorry i'm not in a position to advise too much. good on you for getting your investigative ducks in a row.

I completely agree.
Is your husband an alcoholic? Are you the child of alcoholics?
This is not normal behavior by any standard. This is the behavior of an addict (and I dont mean just a sex or affair addict)

Also, you mention that you thought he may 'just be a sex addict." Sex and love addiction is one of the HARDEST addictions to break. Dont believe me? Go to a Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous meeting (12 step program)

I would encourage you to separate from him so you immediately stop him from abusing you. (You ARE being mentally, emotionally and physically abused). Praise God he didn't give you AIDS and have you die in a year.

Also, I would encourage you to attend Al_anon meetings. You can find them in your local area.

Some posters will encourage you to do the MB program to save your marriage but you are being abused. There's nothing to save, except your self-worth!

Oh, and whatever you do: DO NOT SHOW HIM THIS WEBSITE.
THIS IS AN ANONYMOUS FORUM. HE SHOULD NOT KNOW YOU ARE HERE.

Me too. You poor thing. {{{CrimsonComet}}}

Your story is very similar to that of my mother, my father was a serial cheat and definitely had narcissistic personality disorder (NPD). He got a woman pregnant while he was engaged to my mother, he had constant affairs, including with my mother's best-friend and his best-friend's wife, he visited prostitutes all the time, he even thought he was in love with a prostitute until she dumped him (after extracting lots of money from him), he gave my mother gonorrhea twice. He was entitled and arrogant and made my mother feel worthless. When he had used her up and she became ill and needed help, he threw her away. He acted like she didn't exist anymore.

He married at least another 3 times after divorcing my mother (I no longer have contact so have no idea what's happening now) and the same pattern would reassert itself - infidelity, blaming his wife for his unhappiness, and then self-righteously splitting - declarations of "I can't do it anymore, I've given her the best of myself" while crying. He has hurt a lot of people to the core, my father.

I don't know whether your H has NPD. People who are in affairs look very much like they have NPD but once they have broken the addiction, they can return to the decent person they were before. And even if he does have NPD, it doesn't mean that you have to leave him. People with NPD (and I know two of them very well) are actually quite cowardly: if you enforce boundaries and watch them like a hawk, they can be quite obedient. I once read a book about a woman who "trained" her NPD husband - he was also a serial cheat, a liar, completely self-absorbed etc. She set very firm boundaries and they seemed quite happy. But she sounded like a very self-aware and unfoolable person.

Only you can know whether you want to stay with him, whether you can ever get over what he did to you. If you do, then you must first expose far and wide: he must understand the consequences of his behaviour. If he does have NPD, this will have a dramatic effect on him because people with NPD (and those who have admiration as their top EN) can't stand other people's disapproval. Then, once he's stopped being terribly angry with you, you can give him a list of Extraordinary Precautions:

* Absolute truth about his affairs that will be tested by polygraph
* Change his job so that he has no more nights or unaccounted time away from you
* Total transparency
* No contact letter to the OW

And whatever other precautions you need to feel safe again.

Good luck, CrimsonComet. You've come to the right place for help. MB and this forum can help you to become strong and happy again.

Ok, I'll try to answer as many questions as I can. First, I am sorry I gave anyone the impression that I'm in danger. He is not threatening me or causing me any harm. I'm safe. I began following the MB program, making deposits in the love bank, reading the articles, and learning so much, and applying those things I learned to our relationship. We didn't communicate. I am really inclined to bottle everything up in myself, and I accept some responsibility for him going elsewhere. I see where my resentment and my lack of communication has led me and us, and I have had to go against my natural grain and speak up whenever something bothers me, which I never did before. Each time I have, it's led to honest, loving conversations, and we've honestly grown closer together through this. The money is now being spent properly, and there is no more money spent at the stripclub, or anywhere I don't know about. I'm very watchful now, and before I didn't want to look at the money situation or know anything about it because we were so badly off, I didn't want to even face it. I am disgusted with what he did, and I cannot understand how he could have left me so destitute, while he went off to have his fun. I can't understand why he didn't sit me down and show me how much more he was making at the new job in April, and how we could afford to do things and buy things. He told me it really bothered him that I said no to taking the family to the movie theatre, because we didn't have the money. I thought we were broke and he didn't tell me.
I can't understand how it didn't end when we were reconnecting. Anytime through September, October, even November, he should have seen that I was wanting to save our marriage. He only ended it when I found out mid-December, and I do believe it's ended, but I can't see why he still needed it all those months.

Second, the contact with the OW is broken. As he said, and I verified with the phone records, she tried to reconnect by text on Jan 4th, and he texted back to her not to contact him again, and she texted back, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have texted you. So, I've been keeping close watch on the records, and I see who he calls/ texts, and where he is when he is on the phone or texting. I didn't expose, because it's what my aunt did, and my uncle ended up with the OW. Of course, what she did was more of a smear campaign rather than a plea for assistance to save her marriage, and the town became an uncomfortable place for him to be seen in by anyone, down to the grocery baggers. I know that's not what's meant, but it's ingrained in me that she was (and is) an awful woman, and what she did was horrible, so doing something so similar, is anathema to my very core. Plus I'm a private person, and it horrifies me to think of people knowing this. It (obviously) took me a long time to even post this stuff anonymously on this board, and I've only told one person, someone who has become a dear friend, and without whom, I don't think I'd have gotten this far.

I have decided that if I see any other attempts by the OW to contact him via phone or text, I'll contact her 152 "friends" on FB to request their assistance to keep her away from my husband because we are trying to repair our marriage, and I can site the day he broke it off, the date Jan 4th, and whatever day she does it again, and inform every last one of them that she trolls the Ashley Madison cheaters website trolling for married men, and to pray for her and help her to overcome whatever problem she has that has led her to become such a person.

I'll have to really be careful to construct it so it's not inflamatory, because I don't want to be sued, and I have to be careful not to approach it in a revenge mentality (so I won't use the word troll), but a calm, reasoned, genuine request for help.

I could tell both of our immediate family members, and a few really close friends of his. I didn't, but if there's any sign at this point that he's not keeping his word, I will go to this next step.

I don't have a good support system. My mother and I are pretty much estranged. That's a long story. I have a brother, but we've grown so distant over the years. My MIL is not supportive, and has told us emphatically that she won't watch our girls, because she's gotten too old to do it. She'll keep my BIL and SIL's two kids for a week at a time, because SIL is "fragil." She's got all kinds of mental problems, and has to be carefully handled. Of course, I'm always praised for being so strong. That means that I can watch my kids for 24/ 7/ 52/ 10+ with only occasional breaks of an hour or two here or there. Of course I developed depression. I haven't told anyone about that either, except that one friend. Oh, by the way, my girls are extremely well behaved, polite and are not a nuisance in any way, except they are a bit messy. In fact those other two grandkids are probably harder to manage than my three. Just in case, reading this, people get the impression that MIL might have a reason to not want to watch my girls. I really don't understand it.

CC, I think the vets here can really help you. To make sure that happens, I wrote a bit of a timeline for you so they can understand what's going on quickly. The lies your WH told you are in red and a couple of classic cases of gaslighting you are in green:

2008: WH has an affair with a woman running a coffee-shop. �OW1 ran a coffeeshop/ icecream parlor with her husband. I'm mortified that we continued going there, with me not knowing, and not understanding why she was so snotty to me, until one day the husband was rude to my husband and we quit going. I think it was disgusting that he was doing the man's wife and bellying up to the table expecting the man to serve us icecream.� This affair was discovered in Dec, 2011, after an affair with OW2 was discovered.

April 2011: WH started a job two hours away that had him traveling a lot. He would spend a week there, coming home some of the nights, but not all, and then there'd be a week in another state.

Easter 2011: WH started affair with stripper.

May 2011: emails (discovered in Dec 2011) from WH to stripper �of lust and longing, there were several from both that referred to intercourse, and it's quality, and regret of its absence.�

June 2011: lived with stripper for 13 days while away on �business�

September 2011: CC discovered H was spending hundreds at a time at a stripclub while BS and children lived frugally: "I've rewired bras with clotheshanger wire." CC confronted him about it � �he promised not to do it again.�

After discovery day 1, CC discovered MB. �H became affectionate and nice. We started working on our relationship. He became pleasant to have around, started spending money on me and our girls, and the house.�� He treated me like he did when we were dating, and newly married�

Between Sept and Dec 2011: CC discovered more charges to the strip joint. CC told him �it's either them or me� He said he picks me, and won't go back, and I thought that was that.�

Between Sept and Dec: CC developed a bad case of genital herpes. �He said one of the lap dancers went all the way, and he didn't know it was going to happen and it was a surprise.� WH was also diagnosed. �I thought this would show him how dirty, nasty those places are, and would make him stop going there. He went again to the club three times within two weeks of me getting the outbreak.� Stripper also has herpes.

Dec 10 2011: family day out: �We drove 2hrs there, enjoyed a banquet, meet-and-greet of the families, speeches, a children's cakewalk and all the kids sat on Santa's lap and got a bag of assorted toys and treats. About 3pm, he walked us to the car, and we left. He told me he needed to stay to get some stuff done. Later I found out he left and went to her, spent the rest of the weekend with her, drove to work on Monday morning, and came home to me Monday night.�

Dec 16 2011: CC discovered his gmail account left open on the home computer.
* �he was having an affair, and it was ongoing.�
* The affair was with a stripper, she was having "financial difficulties": �he would withdraw 400-500 from the bank to GIVE to her, on top of the charges that he would rack up at the club.�
* �I found out that Friday, and when I confronted him, he first denied having an affair, then admitted to one in 2008 with a woman who owned a small husband-wife coffee shop/ icecream store. I asked if he ever had any other affairs, and he said no. Then I bomb-dropped the woman's name, and he reluctantly admitted to it.�
* �He promised to break off all contact with both AS and MJ, and delete all contacts from his phone.�
* �OW2 never married, and trolls around the Ashley Madison dating site for married cheaters, because, according to my husband, she can break it off with guys by threatening to tell the wife. She works, and travels internationally for fun. My husband is obviously attracted to the adventure and sponteneity she could provide. Streetview on googlemap showes her house to be very nice and upscale.�
* �I asked how he could still be with her since we were getting on so well since September, and he said he didn't want to give her up, and didn't know whether we were going to work out, or if my change was temporary.�
Dec 23 approx: �I checked up to see if that happened, and there was one reply from� the jezibel, a comment to a picture he had sent the day before� he assured me he only missed deleting them.� �there have been no other calls or texts�. �his phone hasn't made or received any more calls from, or en-route to, her town.�

CC has copy and pasted all the emails, and has receipts and phone records. �I have made a folder that's now loaded with receipts, bank records, phone records, and all the juicy emails and pictures, including his private-pic, from both women before I accidentally x'ed the connection. I've been checking his location with Latitude, but that doesn't work well, but I can see where he is when he uses his phone for calls and texts. I will have to research other ways to monitor him. �

�For about three months, I was convinced it was a sex addiction, and he promised to stop the porn, and stop going to stripclubs. So our relationship seemed improved from September onward, except that he'd keep promising very convincingly, not to go to the stripclubs, and I'd find out and confront him, and he'd promise, again convincingly, not to do it again, over and over until now I don't believe him when he looks so honest and tells me it's over with all of them. I rely on the phone records, and bank records, and receipts that I can find, and for what it's worth�. I do think he's not going to see AS again, but I don't believe however that he won't start up something with someone new. �

�I've been so miserable, ... I felt so terribly used."

�He's extremely flirty with women. He's like a fisherman casting his line, and reeling in whatever bites.
He has a female friend who attended the school with him where he owes them a thesis to finish. She's about ten years younger than him and me, but I think right now she's in a relationship, and not looking to my husband, but it bothers me that they will from time to time chat on the phone for an hour. I'm concerned that at some point, if her relationship goes rocky, and I don't keep mine happy, they would easily get together. And if not her, any of the other women he flirts with.� (Here's the next affair partner. Or he's already had an affair with her)

Currently: WH is still at home. �He has not contacted either woman, as promised. His behavior towards me is like when we dated. The money is being spent on our family now, and I know where it's going. He's been driving home 2hrs every night, except a couple times staying with his mom, which I get confirmation about. He's very overwhelmed with work, �there hasn't been time to follow this program, like we ought to." �his biggest need is admiration.�

�I've been doing my best to be the loving attentive wife, and had been doing a good job trying to move past the past, and not think about it too much, and I believe he's stopped contact with those women, but I've been bothered by his lack of understanding of how susceptable he is to doing it again, why he shouldn't talk on the phone to a female friend for an hour, why he shouldn't try to get another job that requires a lot of travel, and how he doesn't get that I can and should never trust him again.�

�I'm bothered that he so easily justifies his leaving because he claims to have tried, and because of my unwillingness to desire him, not just willingness, but he expected me to initiate.�

The vets will no doubt have a lot of very useful things to say soon, here are my 2 cents worth.


CC, you may have been 50% responsible for the poor state of your marriage before he had sex with other women, but you are NOT responsible for his affairs. Only HE is responsible. He made an active choice to have an affair. His having an affair reflects badly on HIM, not you.


He didn't end it because he just LOVED having two women at once, both of whom were fulfulling his ENs. It's called cake-eating and very few waywards seem to be able to give it up no matter what the BS says or does. They are addicted to it. You must see that he's in the grip of a massive addiction.


I'm sorry, but I don't think your WH and OW2 have stopped having contact. It seems extremely unlikely because that's NOT how waywards work. Waywards nearly all speak and act the same. Very very few escape this cookie-cutter pattern. Your H knows how you're monitoring him, and it's the easiest thing in the world for him to find another avenue to meet his AP. Like an affair phone. Or a quick visit when there's a 20 minute free period. It's called "going underground". WSs are incredibly dishonest, amoral and tricky. My analysis of your posts in the previous post made it clear to me how much your husband is LYING LYING LYING. Don't be fooled. If he says anything, you should automatically disbelieve him. Indiegirl has a really good thread about this, I'll see if I can find it.

Get yourself a voice-activated recorder (VAR) and stick it in his car. Get a GPS to see where he's going. Do NOT tell him what you are doing!


Exposure is the single most important thing you should do at this stage, CC. Most BSs balk at this but when they are finally convinced and do it, they marvel at the dramatic positive change it caused. Read MelodyLane's "Exposure 101" in her signature. This spells it all out. Your marriage can handle exposure but it CANNOT handle an ongoing affair and further false recoveries. You won't be driving your H into the AP arms - he's already THERE! And by not exposing it, you're enabling the affair - and any future affairs that your serial cheating H will certainly engage in if you don't expose now.

BTW, OW2 will only want your H while he is coughing up the dough. She's going to scrape him off like a turd on her shoe when you make things difficult for her.


Yes, she used exposure as revenge but it wasn't the exposure that drove him into the OW's arms - it was the AFFAIR!


She's not you and no one reasonable is ever going to draw parallels between you and your aunt.


Your H had broken both the privacy of your marriage and therefore your own privacy by bringing not just one but several OW into the marriage.


You're letting him off the hook. He ACTIVELY engaged in the affair and I bet it's still ongoing.


Good! Get your VAR and GPS etc. Listen to what the vets say too. I'm afraid that your sad situation is not unique: it seems that when it comes to affairs, the play stays the same even though the actors change. However, this also means that MB and the vets know HOW to kill an affair, make sure another affair does not arise, and after that help you and your H to make your marriage strong and happy.

Here's Indiegirl's thread about how waywards always LIE

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2549782#Post2549782