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Hang in there, Trying. I myself had an affair, and though things are far from certain with my wife, I am doing all I can to prove myself to her again. The single biggest thing I can say is DONT QUIT. No matter how bad it hurts, no matter how much resentment there is, dont quit.

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Originally Posted by Trying2survive
Yes, her choice.

I have tried to have productive conversation with her. She has stated she is so angry that she cannot talk to nor look at me.

PA has not ever seemed to be a high need of hers. In fact, she is the one that has dropped about 30 pounds since this all began. During our marriage, I always maintained myself in excellent physical shape. She on the other hand gained alot of weight and our physical relationship declined substantially. Now she has lost alot of weight, I presume to prepare for her new life of a single woman.

Some time ago I asked her for a list of her top needs and she gave me a list that basically consisted of everything I did wrong associated with the affair. Honesty, not lying, etc.

Frustrated.

I also put on tons of weight in my marriage. It was a horrible coping skill, and it isn't something I am proud of either. My WH dumped me and all our kids for a wh0re who was single and as he stated "Easy on the eyes!"

It wasn't until I fully understood Dr. Harley's EN's did I realize Physical attractiveness was important to my WH. I lost 76 pounds and wear a size 4 today. This summer I plan to hop around in a bikini just because I can.

My husband's adultery was the reason I started to lose weight ... the reason I kept going was me ... my husband was actually a huge reason why I ate. His neglect, independent behavior, and dishonesty throughout our marriage is why I ate. Now that he is gone ... I no longer need to eat him.

It feels great to be sexy again. It feels great to be hit on by men ... what really feels great is showing my WH that I did have what it took to be a great wife for him. I brought back the wife of his youth ... I brought back the woman he fell in love with.

Granted he is deeply entrenched today with the wh0re ... that doesn't matter anymore because I feel great in my own skin and now I know how to go a lifetime very healthy.

He is missing out on one heck of a fine woman. I am the total package and he is too stupid to realize exactly what he has lost.

Last edited by PrayIncessantly; 02/18/12 09:01 AM.
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If I may caution, as I said dont quit. Having cheated or not, if you are doing the right things (transparent, remorseful,attentive, etc.) it is not cool to kick a man while he is down. Like I said, man, dont you give up. You want it, then go for it, and dont let anything stop you.

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Originally Posted by PrayIncessantly
Originally Posted by Trying2survive
Yes, her choice.

I have tried to have productive conversation with her. She has stated she is so angry that she cannot talk to nor look at me.

PA has not ever seemed to be a high need of hers. In fact, she is the one that has dropped about 30 pounds since this all began. During our marriage, I always maintained myself in excellent physical shape. She on the other hand gained alot of weight and our physical relationship declined substantially. Now she has lost alot of weight, I presume to prepare for her new life of a single woman.

Some time ago I asked her for a list of her top needs and she gave me a list that basically consisted of everything I did wrong associated with the affair. Honesty, not lying, etc.

Frustrated.

I also put on tons of weight in my marriage. It was a horrible coping skill, and it isn't something I am proud of either. My WH dumped me and all our kids for a wh0re who was single and as he stated "Easy on the eyes!"

It wasn't until I fully understood Dr. Harley's EN's did I realize Physical attractiveness was important to my WH. I lost 76 pounds and wear a size 4 today. This summer I plan to hop around in a bikini just because I can.

My husband's adultery was the reason I started to lose weight ... the reason I kept going was me ... my husband was actually a huge reason why I ate. His neglect, independent behavior, and dishonesty throughout our marriage is why I ate. Now that he is gone ... I no longer need to eat him.

It feels great to be sexy again. It feels great to be hit on by men ... what really feels great is showing my WH that I did have what it took to be a great wife for him. I brought back the wife of his youth ... I brought back the woman he fell in love with.

Granted he is deeply entrenched today with the wh0re ... that doesn't matter anymore because I feel great in my own skin and now I know how to go a lifetime very healthy.

He is missing out on one heck of a fine woman. I am the total package and he is too stupid to realize exactly what he has lost.
Well, I posted my thoughts to you on another thread last night so you know what I think.

LOL, PI, you have me literally LMAO this morning. Re-read your 3rd paragraph.


Every man I meet is in some way my superior; and in that I can learn of him.

-Ralph Waldo Emerson


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Pray,

Congratulations on your own transformation. For the record, however, my wife's weight or her appearance were ever issues for me nor reasons for the affair.


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Monty,

My wife appears to go back and forth between denial and extreme anger. At times she displays complete anger and hatred then ignores the situation.


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I understand that, T2S. You have to ride it out, and understand this may take a very long time. I am a year into things (my wife caught me just over a year ago) and it has been hard, and rough. You CANNOT lose hope. I went into this telling myself that "I will not quit, nothing will stop me, my wife is my world, and though damn me for what I did, I will do right by her or die trying". You must have that kind of resolve and attitude. There will be times that she will lash you something fierce, I know my wife did. I have been in combat 4 times (including this time)and I will say that dealing with the aftermath of my affair has been the hardest, most emotionally taxing thing I have ever had to endure. If she wants it to work, she WILL eventually talk to you. But as these fine folks say, you can roll with Plan A. But the key to me is YOU DONT QUIT.

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Monty, thank you for your service, please return home safely.

I'm former military, and although never was in combat, I can also say the aftermath of my affair has also been the most trying time in my life, bar none.


Me: WH 44
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T2T, yes, the weight loss is a post-dday condition (i am apparently the only woman alive who *gained* weight after d-day. coming home to eat a packet of cookies a day while fwh was lost in the fog was a (bad) way of coping w/my depression and confusion and isolation. granted, our cookies only come in packets of 9, not 36, but still, 9 a day adds up!)

perhaps you need a new spin on your sitch. what your w is experiencing is going to continue for a while - that's simply the way it is. consider this time an opportunity for you to get your act together, so when her heart softens (i like that expression), the new you is ready.

read the books (you need clarity)
figure out her en's
figure out how to meet them with actions
*practice*

don't just try and give up when you don't get the response you're looking/hoping for. read the other threads here, fwh and bw. you'll see you're not alone, and how other people managed to apply the concepts.

3 weeks (going on 4?) is a drop in the bucket. i wasn't fortunate enough to have found MB. i spent 6 months being pissed off/depressed/desperate thanks to IC/MC and still foggy wfh. have you made an appt with the harleys yet? and may i second the opinion of copying and pasting this thread and narrowing down all the actionable advice?

it is also only 3/4 weeks for YOU, but you have the benefit of this board. follow the advice offered here. focus, sort out your fogginess, create a game plan for recovering this marriage, and get to work on it. use this time.


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xWH 55
DD 22
DDay 6/07
D 8/15
Letting Go
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Letty, I ordered two copies of "Surviving an Affair", one for my wife, one for me. I hope she'll read it. We exchanged some rather nasty e-mails this past weekend, my frustrations have come to the surface yet again. There's a MC session scheduled for tomorrow, we'll see if she shows up.


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Originally Posted by Trying2survive
Letty, I ordered two copies of "Surviving an Affair", one for my wife, one for me. I hope she'll read it. We exchanged some rather nasty e-mails this past weekend, my frustrations have come to the surface yet again. There's a MC session scheduled for tomorrow, we'll see if she shows up.

twoxfour

Bring the jist of the e-mails here and board members may be able to help you creatively respond!

Showing her the same old same old will not help your cause. You will get the same old same old in return!!!

nESRE

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Originally Posted by Trying2survive
Letty, I ordered two copies of "Surviving an Affair", one for my wife, one for me. I hope she'll read it. We exchanged some rather nasty e-mails this past weekend, my frustrations have come to the surface yet again. There's a MC session scheduled for tomorrow, we'll see if she shows up.


Buying the book is not the same as reading it.
Even reading the book is not nearly as good as following the advice in the book.

Don't let yourself get caught up LB'ing. Fights do not fill her Lbank.

As pointed out share these emails so you can get help to avoid getting sucked into fights.

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The jist of the emails is that we are living separately and I don't feel making any progress on our relationship. Lingering resentment from both of us on the things leading up to and including the affair.

I feel that I took steps in the right direction through the NC letter and quitting the second job that had me in contact with the OW. And there has been no contact and I feel I'm through the withdrawal phase.

I keep asking about her EN's and if she will allow me to meet them. My wife says she doesn't know what she wants and doesn't know if she wants to work on the relationship or not, and doesn't know if or when she will know.

I guess at this point her needs include not having me in her life. After four months of separation this has become the new normal and there is no resolution in sight. I'm at the point of accepting that and the consequences of a state of semi-permanent limbo where we are not reconciling and not divorcing. My close friends and family tell me she is just stringing me along for money (I am the sole provider)and think I should just give up and initiate divorce, but its not what my heart wants.

In the two joint MC sessions we had she has displayed intense anger (she got up and ran out of the first after about 3 minutes) and says she is an angry person and holds grudges and doesnt think she can ever get past this. She states she is "reading" and "doing research" on her feelings and what to do.

The tone of her emails is mostly negative, and dwells upon the past, while I want to talk about the future and how we can work together to make things better. Mind you I am not at all suggesting this can ever be forgotten or swept under the rug, it never will be, I want to see if there is any potential for us to move forward.


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T2S

I am going to be hard on you since you went so far as to leave your BW for a time.

Me trying to see you through her eyes kinda thing.

If you don't like it just hit the ignore poster button so you can't see what I post to you. You have that feature on this board.

With that being said I read your other thread on this forum from you back in Dec. Dr. Harley in an article (can't find it now) stated he is not surprized both people are not in A when the M deteriorates to a certain point. Since you are here and your W is not we have you to deal with. What we would like to see T2S do is clean up his side of the street regardless of what Mrs. T2S does.

The ONLY thing you have to offer the M which you can control is your attitude with which you communicate to her.
Over and over we have told you small steps to take to try and get a small opening in the door that your W has shut.

You get into nasty e-mailing with her. How did that show her a different T2S? I am being totally serious. Can you explain?

At this point if you brought me a book on saving the M I would make a suggestion as to exactly where YOU T2S could store it. I would have no doubts at this point that it would fit nice and neatly into the space. Maybe even a little more room in there for other things that may come up.

As a wayward essentially you are going to have to try and Plan A-her which is no easy task since you were the offender-to entice her back to the M. How does negative communication help your cause?



Originally Posted by Trying2survive
The jist of the emails is that we are living separately and I don't feel making any progress on our relationship. Lingering resentment from both of us on the things leading up to and including the affair.

I feel that I took steps in the right direction through the NC letter and quitting the second job that had me in contact with the OW. And there has been no contact and I feel I'm through the withdrawal phase.

I keep asking about her EN's and if she will allow me to meet them. My wife says she doesn't know what she wants and doesn't know if she wants to work on the relationship or not, and doesn't know if or when she will know.

I guess at this point her needs include not having me in her life. After four months of separation this has become the new normal and there is no resolution in sight. I'm at the point of accepting that and the consequences of a state of semi-permanent limbo where we are not reconciling and not divorcing. My close friends and family tell me she is just stringing me along for money (I am the sole provider)and think I should just give up and initiate divorce, but its not what my heart wants.

In the two joint MC sessions we had she has displayed intense anger (she got up and ran out of the first after about 3 minutes) and says she is an angry person and holds grudges and doesnt think she can ever get past this. She states she is "reading" and "doing research" on her feelings and what to do.

The tone of her emails is mostly negative, and dwells upon the past, while I want to talk about the future and how we can work together to make things better. Mind you I am not at all suggesting this can ever be forgotten or swept under the rug, it never will be, I want to see if there is any potential for us to move forward.



Like a broken record you have told us what you have done so far. You have a start but it is just a small start. Its good but there needs to be so much more from you.

Did you even comprehend the suggestion I made about SAFE communication? You need to start with baby steps here. Your not going to repair the M by next thursday. Ain't gonna happen. Your M is not going to be saved in one swaling swoop that you make and things will all be better. It just doesn't work that way.

What is your plan going forward? How are you going to be creative in meeting her needs? No don't ask her if you can meet them just do it...if she will let you do something and it is positive--->DO IT.---->With no expectations.

Figure it out from the link/list I posted to you and try to meet the top 3 in some way positively. Others here have been asked the same so I am not asking something out of the ordinary. If you try to meet a need and after a while it appears to make no difference then try another. The main point is you do this to show her a different T2S. You don't need agreement from her or to talk about it. JUST DO IT.

You really need to take the lead in this or she will keep looking at your efforts as BS<---And thaty not Betrayed spouse.


Action. Not talk. Especially relationship talk at this point except at MC. Have you called the Harleys yet even to discuss the cost or anything?

If your gonna sit on your A$$ with a book in there then I will find other posters to help that are motivated to recover or at least attempt to recover their M's.

Motivated=Take and use the suggested advice to the best of their abilities.

What is yur plan?

What do you think her top 3 needs are?

nESRE

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My plan:

1. No more e-mails about the relationship.
2. Try to meet what I think are currently her top 3 needs (honesty and openess, family comittment, financial support). Try other needs as necessary.
3. Try to establish some guidelines with her regarding joint custody of the kids, finances, and dig in for the long haul.
4. Ask her if she'll do counseling with the Harleys.


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Originally Posted by Trying2survive
My plan:

1. No more e-mails about the relationship.
2. Try to meet what I think are currently her top 3 needs (honesty and openess, family comittment, financial support). Try other needs as necessary.
3. Try to establish some guidelines with her regarding joint custody of the kids, finances, and dig in for the long haul.
4. Ask her if she'll do counseling with the Harleys.

Just thinking here.

With it being tax time could you use return money from taxes for some sort of mini vacation or week end get away with the DD's? Water park/skiing/not sure where you are located. Something within easy reach financially?

Is there a possibility in that?

If it would be possible then invite your W with no expectations. Let her know no relationship talk-No M talk-Just a break for the whole family. Some fun time.

Either way your a winner in this situation- You get fun quality time with DD's and if W does decide to go it could be a bonus. You would have to keep your word and be on best behavior.

Is there a project at your marital home that has been put off? Some type of light project? Painting or light remodel that you could perform? At least put the offer out there. The value of the home is yours jointly so you would also be a winner if she would allow it.

Wouldn't push either of these on W. Would at least make the offer.

I would have a get away set with DD's and then invite W in plenty of time to make arrangements. It totally has to be her choice if she would want to come or not. No arguing or fighting. Just put it out there as an idea. You are going with DD's regardless of her decision.

I see you as a person who apologized for their A. Second time I have brought this up. It takes AMMENDS. Way different than an apology.

I could be wrong.

Come back and tell us the difference between the 2.

Think about these 2 examples. Maybe there is a better one in your sitch that would work.

nESRE

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Those are good ideas, there are some possibilities. I've made both of those offers in the past and thus far she hasn't taken me up on any but will continue to offer.

I would think ammends are actions to demonstrate the sincerity of an apology.



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I think your number 4 should be done sooner rather than later.

Give up the MC. You're more likely ending up D with their "help."

Have you read the LB items on here? Have you been able to meet any amount of EN for Convo?


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
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Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

“Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.”
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

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Originally Posted by Scotland
I think your number 4 should be done sooner rather than later.

Give up the MC. You're more likely ending up D with their "help."

Have you read the LB items on here? Have you been able to meet any amount of EN for Convo?


Thank you Scotland. ITA

From the book LoveBusters-Overcoming Habits That Desstroy Romantic Love by Dr. Harley:

Read the first chapter free

Summary at the end of chapter 1:

Key Principles

� All of us have within us a Love Bank that keeps track of the
way people treat us. When someone does something that
makes us feel good, love units are deposited into their account.
And when he or she does something that makes us feel bad,
love units are withdrawn.

� Our emotions check our Love Bank regularly and encourage
us to spend more time with those who make us happy and to
avoid those who make us unhappy
.
� When someone of the opposite sex makes us feel absolutely
sensational by meeting one or more of our most important
emotional needs, his or her account hits the romantic love
threshold. We don�t merely find that person attractive�we
find that person irresistible.

� Our emotions encourage us to avoid those whose Love Bank
accounts are in the red. But it�s not easy to avoid our spouse,
so they may keep withdrawing love units until their account
reaches the hate threshold
.
� It�s not uncommon for a couple that started out feeling that
they would love each other for eternity
to come to the conclusion that their marriage
was the biggest mistake of their
lives�all due to Love Bank balances.

� Love Busters are habits that drain the Love
Bank. They fall into six categories: selfish
demands, disrespectful judgments,
angry outbursts, dishonesty, annoying habits, and destructive
independent behavior.

31

Habits multiply
the effect of a
single mistake



Consensed version of the book LoveBusters

This article explains each of the love busters but not as indepth as the book does.

Still looking for one more article.

You have homework T2S.

Whole article
What to do when conversation becomes boring and unpleasant

The Enemies of Good Conversation

The conversation you and your wife once shared was enjoyable for both of you. You looked forward to talking to each other. But lately, it's not at all pleasant. In fact, it's something you often do out of duty rather than choice. That's because you have developed habits that make your conversations unpleasant. I call those habits Enemies of Good Conversation.

The First Enemy of Good Conversation is using conversation to force agreement to your way of thinking. It's okay to negotiate with your spouse, but it's not okay to be disrespectful. Negotiation should start with a problem and end with a mutually acceptable way to solve it. When disrespect enters the picture, you not only fail to solve the problem, you leave with hurt feelings.

If you are thinking, "I'm right and you're wrong," watch out! You are just an utterance away from disaster. The Love Buster, disrespectful judgments, will not straighten your spouse out, as you hope. Instead, it will drive your spouse away from you. At first, you will develop emotional distance with your tactics, as your superficial conversation demonstrates. But eventually it will lead to physical distance -- separation or divorce.

Instead of trying to force agreement to your way of thinking, discuss your differing perspectives with respect. Your spouse's point of view is worth considering. After you fully understand it, you may be persuaded to her way of thinking.

Quite frankly, couples are easily influenced by each other when they are respectful. Their joint wisdom is more profound than the wisdom of either of them separately, and they know that. But that wisdom is uncovered only through respectful persuasion, never through disrespectful judgments.

The Second Enemy of Good Conversation is dwelling on mistakes, past or present.

One of our important emotional needs is admiration. So whenever you remind your wife of achievements of her past or present, you deposit love units because she needs to be admired.
But when you remind her of her failures, you do the opposite. You undermine her confidence and self-esteem, and withdraw love units.

Criticism is painful in marriage because we need admiration so much. We want our spouses to be the most encouraging person we know, one who constantly reminds us of our strengths. We certainly don't want to be discouraged by being reminded of our weaknesses, particularly if it comes from our spouse.

In an intimate relationship we give the keys to our inner self to someone else so that person can be in a position to meet our emotional needs. Intimacy magnifies the pleasure we receive when our needs are met. But it also makes us vulnerable. The pain of criticism is magnified in an intimate relationship. Unprotected, we expose the china closet of our feelings. If the person is critical of us, they are like the proverbial "bull in a china closet." One romp through our inner self and we are not so quick to invite the bull back again.

Criticism now and then is bad enough, but spouses often get into the habit of dwelling on mistakes. These mistakes are mentioned repeatedly in an effort to make sure that the mistake is understood and corrected. But that's not how mistakes are understood or corrected. All this does is magnify the pain until conversation is too unpleasant to continue. Then hope of respectful negotiation is lost.

In your letter, you say that you and your spouse say the same things again and again. You may be referring to this enemy, dwelling on past mistakes. You may find yourselves repeating these criticisms because this enemy dominates your conversation. If that's the case, see it for the enemy it is. As long as you tolerate dwelling on mistakes, you cannot expect to meet each other's needs for conversation. You may withdraw so many love units that it ruins your love for each other.[/size]

The Third Enemy of Good Conversation is using conversation to punish each other.

When you use words to punish your spouse, you are being abusive. Verbal abuse can be as harmful as physical abuse. When you hurl insults at your wife, you are trying to withdraw love units. You want her to feel bad. When conversation is used to punish her, you have entered a period of emotional divorce, where all hope of reconciliation is gone. All you care about is balancing the books -- repaying her for the pain you felt over something she did to you.

After all I've said about being sensitive, it seems as if this enemy of good conversation shouldn't be a problem. But, for many couples, it is. In spite of all of their efforts to be respectful, and avoid criticism, they blow it all by saying some of the most hurtful things to each other when they lose their tempers. It sure does ruin intimate conversation, and often leaves couples talking about not much more than the weather.

I would imagine that you and your wife have engaged in at least one of these three enemies of good conversation, and perhaps, all of them. That indulgence has not only left you with a history of unpleasant conversation, but it also may have prevented you from using some of the friends of good conversation. For example, if you are disrespectful, critical or verbally abusive, it's almost impossible to "investigate, inform and understand" your spouse. She will keep her thoughts to herself to prevent your from hurting her with your enemies of conversation.

Trust is essential for intimate conversation. If your wife thinks that you might use her personal revelations against her when an enemy of conversation has taken control of you, her lack of trust will prevent her from revealing her innermost thoughts.
On the other hand, if she knows you will guard her private thoughts and protect them from your criticism, she will be more likely to reveal them.

Enemies of good conversation often prevent implementation of the friends of good conversation. I suggest you focus on ridding your conversation of the enemies first. There's no point in introducing a friend of conversation when you haven't yet learned to be respectful. But then, after the enemies are rooted out, you will find that the friends make your conversation downright fascinating. Instead of being boring and unpleasant, your conversation will encourage you to spend hours together, creating the kind of intimacy that you need to have a fulfilling marriage.

Take pride in this effort. Become a professional at being the kind of conversationalist who meets your spouse's need in a far better way than anyone else could. It will encourage your spouse to develop the same skill in meeting your need. Then neither of you will ever feel like every conversation is like every other one you've had -- boring and unpleasant. Instead, each conversation will give you a little better understanding of each other, and bring you closer together.

The other side of the article talks about good conversation. Probably a good read for you.

Hope this helps

nESRE

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Originally Posted by Trying2survive
Letty, I ordered two copies of "Surviving an Affair", one for my wife, one for me. I hope she'll read it. We exchanged some rather nasty e-mails this past weekend, my frustrations have come to the surface yet again.

There's a MC session scheduled for tomorrow, we'll see if she shows up.

T2S

How did this go for you today? Can you update us?

nESRE

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