She told me last night she is depressed and is not sleeping well.

Is the depression/negativity from withdrawal starting again, assuming there were v-day triggers last week, and assuming this is what has set us back (recalling the fantasy)?

"Everytime there is contact, the recovery clock is back to zero for both you and your w."

Read this in a recovery post today. As I understand the WS withdrawal clock is the same once there is NC, right? So if WW spent a day week before last thinking of OM, looking at photos, and reigniting all those thoughts, then we are back to zero.

Does this mean she has to go all through withdrawal again? It can't be the same level of intensity.

She is acting depressed but not sure if this is because of last week or because of her internal struggles with all of this. Steve did not really answer this during our call.

Or could this be a situation where the LB balance just fell too far from missing UAT and she slipped from conflict to withdrawal.

This is proably too much analysis. I am somewhat confused.

She never got through withdrawal. All his photos, facebook, etc. (anything associated to him) has to be destroyed by fire or trash. Otherwise she will never get through withdrawal.

I would demand she destroy it all, and get rid of her triggering friends. Once this happens ... you may start recovery.

Right now please look into Plan B.

Blackhawk,

I think you may be right, the triggers and photos keep her connected to the OM for a couple of days but I am sure once the reality hits that he is no longer here in the flesh her sense of logic will return......each time it should be less time to rebound.....

Just reassure her that you are there for her and if she needs a little extra time you will be there for her........
Get the UA time back on track and restart.........you are a good man sticking this out........ignore the sadness and try to make her smile.......just go on with your usual self ........ being depressed is to sad, she won't want to stay there long....
patience my friend......

Thanks PrayIncessantly for your advice. Won't these momentos fade with time since the OM is dead? In my calls with Steve, he is against ultimatums at this point, and how else could I demand her (destroy them or else...)?

Steve tells me to keep in Plan A because LB deposits are getting through (we still live together).

I have begun to realize how long this is going to take. When we started SF for 6 weeks and she was working with Steve, I had alot of hope. Now I am just treading water. It is difficult to know whether I am chipping away at things or not. Steve says yes. I see other posters here where it took their WS 8 months to defog even when living together. That is really getting me down.

I would love to demand her to destroy these things and sit her down and get her to understand why the A happened but teaching a fogged out WW is counter productive I have learned from all of you. She began working with Steve for about 2 months but is not willing for the last month (and progress has stalled as a result). Steve wants to ask her to speak with him to get her perspective on things he is working with me on, so let's see how that goes.

Blackhawk,

Has your wife ever posted here?
Maybe it would help her to just express her feelings and to read the stories of other's realizations about affairs and the fogginess of the process of having the mind set to have an affair.........

His WW doesn't want to talk with Steve so she won't come here.

Blackhawk, as Steve said just keep plan A'ing and make LBD's.

Thanks jessi for your replies. I am plan A'ing as usual and LBs are fully under control. Conversation is one of her high needs and I am finding it difficult to meet this need since we had this pullback (Steve recommended to focus more effort on this one too). SF is another one, but Steve thinks this is actually affection. Another high need is Honesty (ironically).

I guess we are coming down from a peak back into another valley. She seems to have her walls all back-up and is neutral/civil to me right now, sometimes sarcastic/mean, but more just neutral/civil (with foggy exceptions noted above). I am trying to get the incidental touching going again to build some tension. Purposeful touching right now is rejected.

I will spend some time at home with her this week a day or two and see if I can entice her into a hike or lunch or shopping. I suggested a hike last Friday and she declined (she was really bad that day and fell to the floor crying during the day, she spent 1/2 the day in bed). I went on my own to hike anyway. Will try again this week. She was also PMS'ing last week, and she gets mean/emotional during that period so perhaps another driver.

On posting here, as TheRoad noted she is not willing to speak with Steve right now so she won't come here. But a good idea for the future.

Proactive patience!

Write letters galore to her.

That can help fill the conversation need a bit (indirect communication about all sorts of interesting things).

You can leave them where she will find them, hand them to her, etc.

TheRoad,

Thanks for your reply and support. Plan A continues.

reading,

Wow, an idea I would not have thought of. I like it very much.

Overall, today we have had a couple of humorous moments, so no meaness from her. She has been civil but her walls are up and touching is not allowed. This is discouraging given that less than two weeks ago we were having SF more or less daily! Now, she recoils at my touch. Frustrating. How can she change from SF to loating my touch?

loating = loathing

She wants to take a week long trip to her mom's next week with the kids to "get energy from home." She said "I am not inviting you and I do not want you to go, but feel free to come if you wish." Of course, I am going.

After discussing this, I asked her a bit later why did she put back up the full walls last week. She said "I refuse to answer." I told her if she wants to talk about it, I am here and will not judge her no matter what she says. Is this classified as R/M talk, and to be avoided unless she brings it up?

They say to try and not act needy during plan A. Asking why the walls back up is letting the power shift back to WW.

Yes it's RM talk.

So keep plan A'ing and damn right you are going on that trip.

Thanks TheRoad. That is what I was afraid of.

Plan A continues tonight. And yep, would not miss that trip for the world. I'll be driving us up there for 6 hours. Lots of family time, walks, maybe some skating and hiking for an entire week.

No more R/M talks. Think I would have learned my lesson before, but occasionally a 2x4 is needed it seems, even now...

Yesterday she was nice, but today she was quite mean and dismissive towards me all day. Over dinner she said something about pretending to be nice to me in front of her family on our trip next week. I said let's make our M something we both enjoy for real and be nice for real and not pretend. She dismissed this idea with meaness. I then said that our M can work, and our problem is not the M but the adultery you had with a married man. She appeared in shock that I said this and screamed at me in anger not to bring it up in front of the kids. I have never seen her so angry. Then she seemd totally deflated and sat in front of the tv. She later went to lay down and just lay there. Later she was quiet and the meanness was mostly gone.

What just happened?? How should this have played out correctly? Did I just do a huge lovebuster?

Should I ever bring up the A?

No - the adultery needs to be dead ... stop triggering her ...

Blackhawk -- can you find her very very top EN's and meet them with rigor? Dedicate as much time to them as possible and meet them anyway you can.

Do not bring up the adultery or do any other lovebusters. When she is nasty to you ... simply remove yourself from the situation and vent here.

Let's see if some extra dumping of her top EN's will help some.

Thanks PrayIncessantly for the feedback and apologies for the late response but I have been away on that trip I mentioned with my family. I do know her top ENs from November when we did the EN questionnaires together, and this morning was thinking the same thing - just pile on the ENS and try to build the LB deposits. They are:

1. Honesty & Openess (ironically...)
2. SF
3. Conversation
4. Rec companionship
5. Family committment

Ideas on how to meet the top 2? We were having frequent SF in Jan-Feb until 15 Feb but not any longer. #3 is also a challenge right now (thanks reading for your idea).

Last night she tells me she will stay living with me because of the kids, but our M is over (and more of the usual WW script about M being over a long time, don't/can't love you, don't want to try right now, etc.). I countered with let's make our M something great with MB, etc.

I think maybe that the D-Day 6 month mark is what has set her off and she has put walls up to fight for this dying fantasy. I even think perhaps she was thinking of moving to her mom's, but I believe this idea was squashed, so it is like we are back at square 1.

It is FRUSTRATING and so painfully slow.

All you can do is exactly what you are doing and be happy with what she can give right now, she has chosen to stay and that is the first step.
She can't give you what you need until she lets go of the OM and because he has died she is hanging on to that probably out of loyality....thinks she owes him that or something like that.......
In that healing process as time goes on you can move past the loss and start to rebuild a life you do want, she can't go forever being in that grief.......but she is obviously not ready to move past it......
All you can do if you can handle it is stay and do what you are doing, I would try to make each day a great day and a memory she can look back on, when she finally starts to let go she will see you and her family in a different light.....
Is there one thing you can have in this relationship that can be enough for you to stick it out, if there is enjoy that and try to be patient.........
I hope the trip was fun.....
I think you can only maybe use some playfulness and joking around to soften her I think enjoying moments is the only way to have her want to come out of the funk she is in.......
As far as SF goes that is tough, again her softening the attitude is key......might have to wait for that until she has had time to mourn again......
I would try to do something simple with her like a walk, drive but keep it a weekly thing or daily thing she needs to expect these outings so if you miss one she will miss it too......make it be a part of her life.......
when she say she is only staying for the kids for now tell her you would rather have a great marriage but if that is what she wants you can live with that until she has a chance to figure out her emotional well being. But you will continue to love her as her husband it is a choice you are making for your lives.......
I feel for you and I wish I could wave a wand and have her wake up and realize he is gone and all the mourning isn't going to bring the fantasy she had with him back and that her real life and opportunity is with you and your children......
I think if you give her enough time she will get to that...
I have lost a few times and I can tell you that you live in a fog for a while and I think you just go through the emotions and the tasks of the day but that is all you can muster during that time......
But eventually your own needs and happiness comes back into play and you start to make a better life for yourself and learn to laugh and love again.
I so hope that happens for your marriage and I hope it doesn't take that long to happen.........It must be so difficult........

Thanks jessi. I really appreciate your feedback and encouragement. On staying in the M, she struggles with it. As Steve said to me in one call, WW has this cognitive dissonance going on in her mind. I think she and maybe one of her friends talked herself into moving to her mom's after she had this trigger episode last month, and her mom/family talked her out of it during our trip. I think you are right with the loyalty to OM. I can only guess that she sees this past year � her budding EA, depression counseling about feelings, PA, decision to leave, OM death � as being for nothing if she stays in the M. Plus there is the whole contrast effect.

It sometimes reminds me of my youngest when she struggles to get dressed to go to pre-school. She tests me to see if I will be firm and keep going and make her get dressed. In the end some days there is drama but she gets dressed and we go. I try to never react, I only act and remain calm and matter of fact, sometimes I will distract her and play fun games. Other days, she gets ready and goes happily. But she still tests and struggles because she is testing and establishing her independence. My WW�s actions these last months to me are in many ways the same. She keeps testing and struggling, but she struggles less. She is angry because she can�t have her way. I guess it will just take time.

On ENs, thanks for these ideas. Humor helps with her and I try to use it. When she is really mean, I just withdraw and leave her alone. On SF, yes this will take some softening to start-up again. If I got her to soften once, I think I can get us there again. I have always liked the analogy I saw from Steve/Mark about pebbles in the pond and to keep throwing the pebbles because you never can tell when the stones will break the surface.

I will discuss meeting ENs with Steve tomorrow when we have our next call. I am sure he will have some ideas too. He has told me recently to focus heavily on being with the kids since my WW likes when I do that. The intimate ENs I guess will have to wait a bit until her walls start to come down again and she softens.