I understand that the majority here find that my wife and I have made no progress.
Nor think that there is no way we will succeed.
Unless things go exactly how you all say.

Truth. I understand the methodes here work. Which is why I continue to read on the site and brouse the forums.
But while I find fuel in the words being said.
I have to say I find the responses to be somewhat discouraging rather than encouraging.
If I were to be in a more negative state of mind right now, these type of responses would never work.

I haven't posted in a long time. But this story made me want to jump in.

I cringe every time a WW spouse feels the need to end things with the OW/OM in person because "It's the right thing to do". My FWH was no different.

The first time he was ending it in person with OW (before I knew), he ended it in a way that allowed her to become pregnant. So, it didn't end and now we are never free from her. NEVER! Or child support or all the drama that goes with having an OC.

The second time he wanted to end it in person (I knew by now), he went to her state to end it over my vehement opposition of an in person visit.......you can see why I knew it was a bad idea. He went, against my wishes, and told my there was time for my feelings to matter later. Time for MY feelings to MATTER later!! I was crushed beyond the crushing I had already received. He went, stayed at her house, and didn't end it again. I will never forgive him for that event and it changed me forever. More than the affair. He looked directly at me and said OW was more important......even when we wanted to repair things with me.

It took him many more "endings" to finally end it. And everyone on this board knows that is not uncommon. The multiple endings before it really ends. The uncommon situation is the one that ends the first time.

So, Ace, be sure to remember how painful it is to your wife that she let you go speak to OW in person, even when I guarantee she didn't want to. She did that for you..............and because she was too scared to stand up for herself and tell you NO.

It hurts even now to remember. And it's been nearly 8 years since I found out.

Remember your wife's pain more than your own if you want to recover your marriage. The next most painful thing was watching my H pine over the woman who wanted to replace me. That doubled my pain.

Think of your wife and her pain first during your withdrawal, not what you need. Your pain was self inflicted. Hers is not.

That means our responses are having the desired effect. We are hoping to discourage you from your foolish plan that will not work.

And taking a trip out of town with your spouse during this time
is
actually recommended.

So that you two can enjoy each other while you go through withdrawal.

You two should go on the trip AND have the trip with your child later too.

Reading, he is not planning on ending his affair so he will never withdraw. They still work together. All this very wayward man has done is change the name of his drinks to "business drinks." the affair is still on.

I hear this, LBelle. I went through this too, without the pregnancy - but that could have happened.

My H believed he was ending it with OW, many times. I was sometimes able to sneak a look at his workplace mobile phone (he mostly left it at work, so I couldn't see it), and that showed a backlog of texts from when he dumped her to save his marriage, then agreed to meet her to say goodbye, and then the affair was always back on. The PA continued for 1.5 years - hidden from me - after my first ultimatum and the phone calls/EA for another 5 years, all at work where I could monitor nothing.

We are still together and the contact has ended (because H has retired) - but the marriage has been deeply affected by this.

You think that what you need is encouragement.

I think you are wrong.

Encouragement will not help you.

Following a proven plan of recovery will help you.

You can be helped by being encouraged to follow that plan. Encouraging you to "feel good" while not following that plan is the opposite of help.


Not how we say, how Dr. Harley says. He is the expert and knows what works and what doesn't. How many marriages have you saved? How many have you screwed up?


Are you here to get help for your marriage, or are you here to try to help other people be better marriage counselors? Most people here are probably happy to help you with your marriage, but are satisfied with Dr. Harley's advice as far as helping people with their marriages, so they don't really need you to tell them how to do it when they can simply listen to the expert.

I get the impression here that you are seeing us as ENEMIES that you must FIGHT to heal your marriage. What we really are are friends to MARRIAGE. We are friends to YOUR marriage too, even if you don't believe it. You won't prove us wrong, and we all know it. We've seen it all countless of times already. THis makes us all very sad, because your marriage and your BETRAYED WIFE will suffer through this false recovery, AGAIN.

Did you see OW's car today? Did you look for an email, text, etc from her?

WHen are you planning on telling your employer? your family/ wife's family, your friends?

Ace just had an OW fix a couple of days ago. One thing to remember about this OW is that she left her husband and is divorcing. I would not expect her to remain aloof very long. If Ace is not looking for her, it is highly likely, OW will come looking for him. As Mel et. al. said, this affair is still on.

AM

Well, from your first post, this is, what, your third-fourth-fifth beginning? And, as you said, after a few months you'd always drift back to the OW and step in it.

See a pattern there, hoss?

Oh, but wait, THIS time it'll be different.

This is an instance where you need to burn that bridge with OW.

Oh, but wait, THIS time it'll be different.

Yep, if after the first/second/third/fourth/fifth time you don't succeed, keep on doing what you've been doing and maybe it'll turn out different. Yep, that sounds like a plan.

Either quit your job, tell OW to eff-off and get serious with your family or divorce your wife so that she and her child can get on with their lives.

Hummm I wonder if the determination you have to save your marriage right now was the same one when you renewed your vowes after your BS discovered the affair for the first time, when you stood up in front of all your loved ones and renewed your love and promise to be faithful and then broke that promise and your BS heart again. My guess is yes and you failed to protect your marriage then and again 2 times after that.

ML uses a saying that I adore " madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome" - you my friend are the mad person in this story.

If you look at your actions closely your not doing anything DIFFERENT from what you have already tried to do and miserably failed at before.

This time I would appeal to you to man up and stop putting your marriage in harms way and think about your BS and the strong possibility that you might let her down again. Can you live with braking her heart again??? Because if you can't then I suggest you quit with "my affair is so special you people don't understand me or my marriage or work situation" and get on with following a plan that is bullet proof to protect your wife from further pain.

My H carried on working with the OW for a year after I discovered the A because we have 4 kids and we were strongly dependant on his income and even though he hated the OW and understood all the venom she had injected into our marriage and she hated him in return and they had no verbal contact at work ( just saw each other but never spoke) it still tore my heart out every time he went to work and 3 years on I am still recovering from the pain that experience caused me more than the affair itself.

Your BS is not stupid I guarantee that she knows who the OW is and that you work together. How dare you put her through more pain and suffering by going back to the crimescene where you attempted to murder your marriage every day and expect her to be ok? Either your selfish or just plain deluded.

My H woke up and saw my pain he quit his job just before Xmas the kids had to struggle and make do with very little and he was unemployed for 3 months but I don't regret him leaving that job ever. He now has a better job and our marriage is great. I really pity you if you don't wake up because your wife will eventually find out that the only way to stop hurting is to stop loving you and then you will truly lose her. There is only so much pain a person can take before they put the barriers and walls up and I can see your BS doing so very soon.

THIS IS NOT A GAME we don't care about you proving us wrong now because eventually you will get bored with your life again and stray again because you have not tanken this opportunity to learn anything of value that will ensure you behave in a decent manner and protect your marriage from further harm. You have not learned about meeting needs, setting boundaries or even being open and honest. What chance do you have of ever coping with marriage snags that are guaranteed to come up for all of us from time to time? What you have learned is that you can cheat over and over again and your BS will put up with it and hide her pain to spare you. If that's acceptable to you then again I pity you as you have no idea how to love someone.

If I could give you one concrete piece of advice right now that I cant see you finding a way to wriggle out of is for your own sake get the Surviving the Affair book, read the concepts properly before you even attempt to argue against MB principals with MB principals experts while you have a limited knowledge at this point. Or even better call the radio show or book a coaching session with the harleys and see if you can win them over to your plan, if your so sure your doing it right this time why not get expert advice on the matter? After all this is your marriage and it must be worth something.

And the final thing I would like to point out is that this forum is here to help people with implementing the MB principals and follow the MB plan if you insist on doing your own thing I suggest you go find one of the dozens of other marriage sites where the success rate of saving your marriage is considerably lower than this one as I suspect you will find more praise there than you will ever do here and they will probably be more understanding of your selfishness and marriage wrecking tendencies.

Good luck to you and my sympathy firmly lies with you BS. I pray that she will one day find the strength to make the pain you constantly cause her stop.

If you put half the effort into ending contact as you do into trying to manipulate this forum, into being more 'positive' (AKA as enabling) you'd be done.

Actually I can't think of anything more positive than you ending contact with your adultery partner. And I can't think of anything more negative than the ongoing assault and risks you let your marriage dangle over - and for what?



Bingo. Ace, you know it too. You also know you are only biding your time till you resume contact.

Just END it.

Or come back when you really hit rock bottom and are willing to do the job properly.

Thanks
I understand all your responses and how you do not see my progress.
I also understand that you all have seen everything that has ever happend with anything like what we are going through and are the all knowing on everything.

I am not, and have never said I was an expert.
And I know I never will be.

However it has been said before that this is one of many suggestion based sites with plans set forth to survive situations like mine. PRobably as many different wasy asa there are brands of milk in the store.
But just because someone choses to go with Bordens over Schepps doesn't make Schepps unacceptable milk.

And I know now that I will not ever recieve praise for any progress from any of you posting here.

Every time I post positive progress or positive feelings all each and every one of you do is shoot me down as a failure.
and how horribly what is happening will fail and never succeed.
And maybe it won't, which is why I have plans underneath my plans that are setup to be imolimented should the first set go under. Interesting how no one acknowledges that.

As far as ending things with the OW and going back to her.
Not going to happen.
I realize the risk I am running by still being here at this job,
However that is where my backup plans are in place for.
Yes I have a resume ready to go if need be.
Point is...I do not want to leave the Job.... I could care less about the OW.

At the end of the day.... your plan works...it has been proven.
And I understand how everyone here has to suport it or not be allowed to post on the site to those seaking help.

But I do go against the fact of calling someone a failure, every time they post and no matter what they post.
That is no way to heal someone or even help them heal.

So you all just keep calling people failures... I am sure that helps and has worked.
But not this guy.... I know what I am and what I have done.
So no need to add on top of that more insults and more continued callings of failure.
Actually what it seems is that you all feel that you are better than me, or probably anyone else that posts here. So that is the reason for the responses the way they are.

Anyway, enough for now.
My good day just turned bad... and I blame you all.
So thanks for the reinforcement.

And the reason I blame you all.
Is because it is plain for me to see now that no matter what I do or whatever progress I make, it will never be good enough for any of you.

So much for getting help here.

You aren't even close to ready to do the real work. If you ever get to rock bottom, and you want to actually DO the work to save your marriage, we'll still be here.

Wild horses couldn't drag someone away from here if they were serious. You sir are NOT serious.

You didn't answer ANY of my questions, and I will ask again and again

When are you going to tell your employer? When are you going to tell ANYONE else who will make you be the man and husband your wife deserves?

Did you look for OW's car today? Did you look for an email/text/etc?

Ace, do you think that you are done learning what you need to learn, and doing what you need to do to save your marriage?

We wouldn't "reinforce" a bad strategy, Ace. In order to get positive reinforcement, you need to do something positive. Do something positive, instead of something negative, and we will reinforce you.

So far we have seen nothing positive. There has been minimal progress in that you did tell your wife, but you have taken no steps to end your affair. All you have done is written endless posts about why you have to stay in touch with your adultery partner.

We would like to see you put the energy you place in protecting your affair into your marriage. We would like to see you think outside of the box when it comes to getting away from the OW. So far, we don't see anything. Lots of empty talk, but no action.

As we like to say in Texas: SHOW ME THE MONEY!!

Staying in touch with your OW would not be good enough for you if you were serious about saving your marriage. Rather, you are more serious about maintaining your affair. Sadly, that is good enough for you.

We didn't call you a failure, we called your PLAN a failure. It is a failure. But you already knew that. IT hasn't worked for you in the past and won't work for you in the future. It is a failed plan.

Well sh*t, I feel just terrible about your affair causing you to have a bad day.

Man up, quit the job and quit wasting your wife and step-daughter's time.

You wouldn't be so pissed if you didn't know it was true. Folks tend to get really loud and upset when confronted with what they don't want to hear.

You know you'll feel better when you take the hard steps.