Chickadee, my husband is doing better at handling my triggers each time I let him know they are happening.

At first I would not tell him because I thought I couldn't because it would be "A" talk. It was bad because he could sometimes tell that something was on my mind or that my mood had changed and I would say "nothing" when asked what was wrong. Then we started with the counselor's suggestions of saying I am having a hard time with "it" today. Plus, right or wrong, I did end up telling him three very specific things that were giving me a hard time because they kept recurring and it was making me miserable.

Now the triggers that he has control to change/avoid he has done what he can to stop. Otherwise, he just hugs me or if I cry he holds me. Sometimes he will say he is sorry that I am hurting. Mostly he is just quiet but there.

It's new for him to be that way with me, and it is also very new for me to let someone hold me when I cry. It helps though.

Aerie

Aerie, if you engage in recovery, you WON'T feel this way at a year and a half. Daisy feels this way because she and her H are not in a plan of recovery. [you can see what happens when you don't have a plan] When bad feelings are not replaced with good feelings, then resentment is the result. You won't have that as long as you stick to your plan.

The reason you are angry today is because you are going through a natural and normal recovery. IT won't stay like this because you have a PLAN.

There is a thread here where Dr Harley addresses this in a radio show: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2594724#Post2594724

I can vouch for this. My H and I are 15 months into recovery - not at the year 1/2 mark yet - and both of us feel very much in love! Oh, I still trigger on occasion and we are still healing, but working the program has enabled us to be 100% committed and very happy with where our marriage is at. Last month we went on a trip for our anniversary and felt better than newlyweds! On one of our nights out, a lady helping us at a store asked me how long we'd been married. When I told her 21 years, she was genuinely surprised. She figured we'd been married recently.

You have to do the work though. Reading is good; the fact that you have good counseling s a definite plus; but... it all boils down to doing the work.

Hi SunnyDinTX! This is strange to me because I have lurked on your thread for a while. Now all the sudden you are real and speaking to me! Kind of feel the same way about MelodyLane too.

I can see where you might have thought that my FWH being gentler would have been the problem but it actually isn't. I honestly see him as stronger than I have ever thought.

My old H would be defensive and gaslight and blast me to oblivion if I had railed at him like I did last week. He would not have tolerated all my tears. Maybe once or twice but then it would have been time for me to get over it and off his case. The fact that he has been able to react calmly and be supportive, against what I know his gut reactions and old habits would have him, shows incredible strength and determination in my eyes.

Its part of why I have been so taken back by the strength of my anger and even disgust towards him and us lately. I just did not expect to feel that way. Not that I have never been angry, I certainly have, but not this way. Its hard to explain but it really blew me away.

Something sort of scary to me I haven't mentioned yet is that the few days that I really let the anger fill me up last week I didn't cry. I didn't feel that deep sorrow I have felt every day since d-day #1. It was almost easier to feel the heat of the anger than that sadness. That frightened me a good bit. I don't want to be an angry person. I also don't want to blow what I have worked towards till now.

I know posting today has been good though because i am home now and anxious for him to be home from work too. Haven't felt that way the last couple of weeks so it has to be a step in the right direction!

Aerie

Yep - I'm a real, live person. LOL. I hope that following my thread has helped you in your situation. God only knows I've made mistakes along the way, so hopefully you've learned from those as well as maybe some things I've mentioned that H and I have done right.

It's good to know that your H isn't being a doormat and that isn't turning you off. That helps me in seeing a more finite picture of what you are going through.

Also, what you mention about the walled off emotions - the anger being easier - helps to know that as well. I HAVE BEEN THERE!!! So, don't think you're crazy. Also, know that just because you didn't allow yourself to cry it doesn't mean the tears weren't down in the well. Sometimes our psyches just have a way of trying to protect us from pain.

I remember going to the doctor once and having all the symptoms of high stress and telling the doc, "But I just don't FEEL stressed! I feel fine, for the most part." She looked at me and said, "Well, that's nice, but have you looked at the numbers?" My blood pressure was off the charts and I was SURE something else (other than stress) was causing my migraines! I ended up talking to my sister-in-law that night and I broke down. I was so use to being the go to person for everyone else that I had not allowed anyone to be the go to person for me. My mother is NOT a help - not the nurturing type. So, I had to "be tough" to make it through. When I allowed my sister in law to be there for me and allowed myself to be vulnerable - I broke down and cried like a baby. It was good for me at that moment.

That's not to say that this is what is going on with you: I just wanted to point out that often times we bury our true emotions.

Take your anger, for instance, and your desire to NOT be with your husband right now. You know what that tells me? (I'm a psych/communications major...bear with me, lol) It tells me you are feeling HURT. Your resentment at having to deal with this is because you can't believe someone you trusted would hurt you in this way - and that hurt is manifesting itself into anger. This is a big part of inter-personal communications: in order to resolve things and to be truly open and honest with our spouses, we have to know ourselves first and foremost. You have to communicate what is REALLY going on. Hurt does not equal tears. It can - but it's not the be all end all.

If you were truly "over it" and wanted to just divorce - chances are, you would not feel the anger or the desire to get away; you would feel....well....nothing. That's my thought anyway. The fact that you are feeling better by writing out your feelings and getting encouragement back from us and thus feeling more positively about your situation backs that up. You need validation; you need support and encouragement - maybe a little nurturing.

It is truly good to know your husband is there for you right now! I have experienced exactly what you are saying: that you feel your husband is stronger now more than ever. It DOES take a strong man to be there rather than rant and rail against you. At the same time, it can be hard to accept nurturing from the person that did the hurting.

I've had moments when my husband wanted to be there for me and I just wanted nothing but to get away from him. There was one night when I woke up and thought, "Geez: now I'M acting like a wayward..." because I was hugging the edge of the mattress like I remembered my H doing while he was wayward.

Anyway, I hope this helps some. I hope I'm at least close to target here.

As for what helps - other than the UA time and workbooks, etc... I can tell you for me, I tried putting myself in my H's shoes, mentally. I tried to remember times when people had to forgive me when I screwed up. I thought of my children and how much I wanted them to have a functional, healthy home. I reminded myself through photos, etc... of all the good times we'd had together and what a good man my husband was, underneath.

Yes Sunny you are right on the money with pretty much everything you said in your last post. I would have to guess you are doing very well in your classes!

I have been given a lot of helpful advice and a lot to reflect on today.

Since you are a good year ahead of me hopefully you will be able to tell me soon what it is like when you no longer think about affairs and recovery but just enjoy life and marriage.

I know you always have to work to keep a good relationship, but I want to be in that place where we are maintaining instead of trying to dig out of a hole and heal wounds. I long for a day when the A's and the OW don't enter my mind at all.

Aerie

aerie sorry a T/J - daisy why dont you update on your thread whats been going on

aer- come back and vent here it really helps- are not alone.

there is a good thread - search on "ordinary day" or maybe someone know which one i am talking about i cant seem to find it, but i will keep looking

Quick update before I head off to bed...

FWH and I copied the UA time worksheet and scheduled out the rest of the week until Sunday. On Sunday we have time penciled in to schedule the coming week. It was a little harder to think of ideas than I thought it would be but we did it. We even started a list of ideas we plan to keep going to choose from in coming weeks. FWH even said afterwards that it was fun. I told him I really appreciated him being enthusiastic about it to which he responded he wasn't doing this just for me. He said he was doing it for his own benefit and for us.

We have time down the next two nights to redo our EN worksheets too. I don't know if that is supposed to count but I figure if we are having good, helpful conversation it can for us. Of course we have other lighter things planned too.

Today turned out to be a good day. I know there will be ups and downs still but I am excited to have this place to vent and get advice now. I don't know what took me so long to post!

Chickadee will that post be in the Recovery forum or elsewhere? I will try to look it up. Need all the positive reinforcement I can get.

Daisy, I hope you will post again. I tried to look up some of your old stuff. I see that your H family befriended the OW as did mine. We have had to cut ties with very close family members because they refused to end that friendship in support of our marriage. Looks like we have things in common. Maybe we can help each other?

Thanks again to everyone. First hopeful day in two weeks and I am grateful!

Aerie

One more thing, do I have to use FWH for my husband? I know things need to be clear on here to get and give help but I hate having to use that. I hate labeling him with a reminder that there were A's.

Is there a time frame before you "earn" plain H or W or can I just give him an anonymous type name of my choosing?

Not the biggest deal but I would like to call him something else if it isn't breaking some kind of understood protocol.

Good night!
Aerie

Actually, the "F" in FWS is earned here on MB. It's an important designation letter that means the spouse is remorseful, is committed to extraordinary care of the marriage, has extraordinary precautions in place, is using the POJA and is learning and using the MB principles.

My FWH has earned his F.

But if you hate using that term, you can use just "H" or whatever you like. It's up to you. But then it might be helpful if you make a signature line for yourself indicating that you are the betrayed spouse, just for now, so that folks just looking into your thread will understand from whence you speak.

By the way, here's the "Ordinary Day Here" post by Glove Oil. Still makes me weep to read it, but it does have a good ending. Ordinary Day Here

Aerie,

Just a suggestion here. You mentioned that you and your H are having trouble thinking of things to do with your UA time. There is a recreational companionship questionnaire at the top of the page. It allows you to rate lots of activities. Both spouses fill it out and the ones that are top on the list are good ones to do. Take a look.


AM

Thanks for the info on using FWH. I still don't like it even though I think the F is earned. I will give it some thought before I decide to use something else or not. I should do a sig line too.

I read the Ordinary Day post. It made me feel a very strong mix of emotions. I know the ending is wonderful and that part was great to hear. It might have been a little early in for me to read the rest though. It really brought back the emotions I had on each discovery day and then especially when just a few short months ago I finally got a full confession from my husband. Trying to hold on to the happy ending!!

It makes me take notice of how emotional I have become. I used to be rather reserved and through this experience I have become highly sensitive with emotions running in all directions at once and very easily stirred. I don't want to be detached anymore. That was part of our problem. But, I would like to regain a little more control than I have now over my emotions.

Armymama, we did look some at the recreation activities worksheet. We are going to fill it out again soon. It's been a long time since we did our worksheets with a lot of crap in between. We decided last night to redo them all in the coming weeks.

I hope everyone here has a great day!!
Aerie

Aerie,

Glad to know that you and your H copied the worksheets and scheduled your time for the week. Often times just doing something towards progress helps you feel better because you are being proactive and taking some control of the situation.

SO glad you decided to post. I don't know where I would be had I not been able to vent at times or ask questions.

Sorry to read that you had to cut family members out of your life but you know what - so be it! I wouldn't want those kind of people in my life anyway. People that don't support you or support what's right are toxic.

As for looking forward to the days you don't think about the affair or OW - I can tell you this: following the program, I still think about those things, but I'm not even a year and 1/2 out yet. The difference is, now when I think about them, it's, "Oh, yeah...that" rather than feeling punched in the stomach; it's MUCH better. It just takes time.

I can tell you that earlier in recovery I triggered much more when H was not home. It especially seemed to hit me on Fridays because that was my down day when I didn't have any classes and nothing pressing to focus on. He'd be at work, the kids at school, and I'd be home - alone with my thoughts. When I finally figured that out, I was able to make a plan to help: I would touch base with H early in the work day and he'd always have an email to make me smile. I'd plan lunch with a friend or go get a mani/pedi - or make appointments for Fridays. Anything that got me out of the house or my mind on something else worked.

Also, I have some key emails and texts from H saved on both my computer and my phone - the ones where H's remorse and/or love was expressed especially well. When I'm having a hard time, those are my quick reassurances that get me through. Now, they might not help as much in the "get away from me" phase - but they do in hurt mode.

I think if you want to call your FWH just "H" or husband that's fine. But, I will agree - the F is definitely earned!!! I use both.

Kudos to you for reaching out and getting help when you needed it, btw!!! That is big, just in and of itself.

Sunny I really like the idea of keeping emails or texts to look at for a pick-me-up. I may start doing that as well.

I do have something to remind me of his commitment. After all the confessions in October, and right before we renewed our vows and I moved home, FWH got a tattoo. Now, if you knew my husband you would know that he is NOT a tattoo kind of guy. He has always disliked them. He is a bit on the preppy side. I however have always thought they were cool and have a couple of small ones myself. (FWH and I are complete opposites!)He got one on his upper arm. It's an ambigram. If you look at his arm straight on it says my name. When he looks down at his arm it says wife. How cool is that? I have a picture of it as the wallpaper on my phone.

You know, after having such a positive night and telling about the tattoo just now I am having a hard time remembering why I was so angry. I mean obviously I know what happened, but the anger seems to have left as quickly as it came. I would love to think it won't come back but I am going to guess it might. At least next time I will know better how to handle it, post it here and not lovebust at home.

I totally agree about the triggers being worse when I am alone. Right now it is any alone time, and unfortunately when I sleep. The bad dreams will not go away. It is to the point that I put off going to bed cause I dread it. Then I wake up in the early AM upset and can't go back to sleep and then... you guessed it, I am awake and alone with my thoughts some more. It is a vicious cycle and the lack of good sleep is wearing on me. It doesn't seem to matter what kind of day FWH and I had together. Even really good days, days that ended with SF and no bad thoughts as I drift off end up in bad dreams.

One morning recently I just cried and told FWH I thought maybe I was just too broken to be fixed. It is very frustrating. Again, I guess it will just take time.

I have always loved amusement park rides, but this is one roller coaster I would have just assumed skipped!

Aerie

Oh and if anyone is curious about the tattoo if you google ambigram generator you can see the kinds of words they can put together and how it works. It really is cool.

I agree about the rollercoaster!

I have been fortunate to not have too many bad dreams about the A. Others may have ideas on how to help with that. The only thing I can think of is possibly taking something to help. Not anything strong - but just to get you over the hump. My dad swears by that "sleepy time" tea to help him sleep. A friend of mine takes melatonin. Another friend takes Tylenol PM but I would never recommend that on a long-term basis - tylenol or motrin - any of that stuff just has too many side effects on the liver for my taste. In fact, I used to have trouble sleeping in hotels when DD20 and I traveled a lot on the weekend for cheer competitions. The pharmacist recommended taking benadryl as opposed to any tylenol pm or other meds. Said it was the active ingredient that made the others "PMs".

As for waking up with the thoughts - that I DO know! Happened to me all the time early in recovery. Sometimes I would nudge H and he would snuggle with me and that helped. Other times, I tended to turn away from him because of that anger we've been talking about. That wasn't healthy - but that's what I felt at the time. But...I would pray and that helped. If it was really bad I'd get up and read. I would suggest doing anything to divert your brain elsewhere rather than stewing; stewing is just harmful!

I know some people have resorted to prescription sleep aids but I just hate taking drugs unless they are absolutely warranted. Having said that, a low-dose anti-depressant REALLY helped me through the worst of the crisis and beginning of recovery! I don't see a problem if it's a short-term solution.

I tell ya - other than marriage builders to rebuild my marriage, the other things that got me through were school and my family. Having classes to excel at meant I always had something to bury my mind into.

That's cool that your H got the tattoo.

I had another post on here that was deleted by the moderator. I'm unclear why, though it really doesn't matter.

I also agree with the benefits of UA time. However, it can be extremely difficult to do when you are wanting to self-protect (a normal reaction), feeling rejection, and lacking faith/trust (based on the facts as you now know them).

A person cannot be expected to overcome those feelings unless you SEE and FEEL something that is PROVEN to be different than what you had -- that hurt you -- and consistently so.

In addition, some of the things that have helped me to overcome the similar feelings you've shared, have been:

- this is an opportunity to embrace productive changes within myself

- I don't depend on, nor expect him, to heal me; only I can do that

- I understand what I have control over and what I do not; my husband and his actions/inactions are not things I have control over.

- I share my overflow of self-love and care; verses self-love gained from another persons attentions or actions.

- I express my feelings honesty and openly; without expecting a response and without blame or insult to my spouse.

Hopefully, there may be some nuggets someone can take away from all of that.

Hi Daisy,

I saw where you posted to me on someone else's thread in SAA. Maybe that is the post you thought you made and it wasn't actually poofed?

I can't remember which thread it was right off, I was reading and happened to stumble across it out of place. It was very close to what you posted above.

I do agree that you need to see, feel, and hear different things to move forward and leave some of the bad feelings behind. I have been blessed that I am experiencing change. I just have to keep myself in check so that I acknowledge and accept the changes for what they are. In my anger I dismissed the efforts of my FWH.

FWH does have a ton of work to do, but so do I. Work I need to do for my own good. Not just to give FWH some kind of free pass.

It is so good to have this forum to exchange these thoughts with others who understand where you are coming from, if you aren't a BS there is just no way to get it.

Aerie

Yes! Thanks! I made an oops. That's good to know.

It sounds like you're on the right track. I agree with others in that you're on the "normal and expected course" regarding thoughts and feelings, considering what you've experienced.

I'm a year and a half out of DD#3, and like you, I spent much of that first year trying on comprehend how I felt and steering it (though, all over the place at the same time).

I, too, dove in the first six-months, super charged for putting it behind us, tons of blissful together time, being the uber enthusiastic wife/girlfriend he so desired. It was all very unrealistic, though. eventually, it settles in and you have to hash through the tough stuff,...the emotional stuff,...and gaining true understanding of why/how and figuring out how to go forward as a changed person, but happy about it.

Thanks, again, for sharing. I gain a great deal from listening to others who share having "been there" and the process of how they dealt with it, even if it's a touch different than mine.

aerie

I have terrible dreams and often, i have tired and still keep changing my way to see what works.. Some times i wake up full drenched, or crying, and i even punch H in the chest. It ruins my day.

Couple things to try.

cotton or bamboo sheets
NO TV bef bed
1 tyneol pm
when the dream wakes me up, i get up have milk then go back to bed.
Wake up, write dream down.
read before sleep- nice fluffy book- no Relationship stuff
EMDR tapes ( google it)
working on tring to dream out of the dream ( but thats not working)
lavender bed spray
hot shower before bed
Got a mouth guard ( this has really helped- also helped stop the migranes,,,,,)
noise machine
no heavy blanket


I am still trying things! My mind is very active when i sleep.

my H wanted to get a tatoo also ( hes not the guy either)- this was like just before the 3 dday and it was pretty cool- but i told him dont do if you think it will make everything better, I was right- it got worse after. he hasnt mentioned it since..


sorry about the Ordinary day post. My H also read it and he was upset but it did him good to read, he still mentions it.

Daisy, I wanted to point out that what you describe is NOT recovery. In order to recover, your husband should be doing things to heal you. For example, he should be implementing extraordinary precautions, giving you just compensation and EARNING your forgiveness. He is supposed to be meeting your needs in a way that shows you love and attention. You shouldn't have to rely on "self love" to make yourself happy in your marriage. That is his job.


If you were in recovery, you wouldn't feel rejection or a need to self protect. It is not difficult if you are in recovery. If your spouse refuses to engage in recovery, the solution is Plan B, not to stay in a bad, unhappy marriage.

My suggestion is to keep on your thread so we can help you with the necessary steps to recover your own marriage. It sounds like all of your attention needs to be on your marriage before you attempt to help others.