So if I understand all of this, If I don't adhere to your definition of "Principles", then I'm automatically wrong? Not to be religious, but who made you God? Why is your way moral and mine immoral?

WE both have friends of both sexes. I'm a husband not a jailer. Does she talk to her men friends without me knowing, no, of course not. Did I talk to this Lady without my wife knowing, again, no, of course not.

Listen, CV. I am absolutely honest and I expect it in return. I always keep my word and ditto. I never keep secrets and ditto. You need to think before calling anyone un-principled, simply because you disagree with them.

I am not an animal, I can be in a room with a woman and not lust for her. **edit**. LOL

We are not asking for your opinion on whether you can 'be in the same room with a woman' without feeling lust

Of course not, that would be absurd. Your premise that afairs are based on lust is also woefully uninformed.
Affairs are not physical entities at the start - they always begin as an EA.

In your case the EA led to a plan for a weekend getaway.

How is it you have not read that affairs begin a an EA yet?

You have been here for months you should know Dr H's position on opposite sex friendships.

You should have read the following MONTHS ago:





You allowed a friendship to develop into an EA that nearly went PA.

You do not understand how to prevent affairs. Do you really think you know better than Dr Harley?

What have you been reading during the past months of recovery?

If you are not able to study and implement the concepts yourelf, get a professional coach to help.

Well, it didn't happen, did it? I've been around this woman for longer than I've been married, and it never happened. My wife knew the OM for less than six months, all told, and had an affair. This lady and I have been on countless business trips, conventions, etc, drunk and sober, and what is more she has told me and most of my family how much she loves me. We had lots of sex in college but since then I have never darkened her door. When her husband was an alcoholic, she stayed in my house scores of times. In fact , next to my wife, my mom and my daughters, she is my closest female friend, and not once in 20+ years have I tried anything with her. So, how do you figure that? See, you spout off without knowing the situation.

Just like I did with Doro. I'm ashamed of myself, for berating her that way, and have apologized.

Mirrormirror,

I guess what confuses people is that you are here on MB but clearly advocate a multitude of non-MB principles, some of which blatantly violate the guide/principles of SAA.

People can see your situation for what it is - the fact that you still don't think there's anything wrong with it, just goes to show why they are a little dumbfounded.

Poor boundaries when dating (ie. having no issue with marrying a man whose best friend is female and "he's had a lot of sex with") is quite telling and sometimes resurfaces later.

MM, we here love a good story; it's the multiple stories that tend to put us off, to wit:

Story #1
I had gone so far as to plan a weekend getaway with another Lady, and had actually paid for the hotel.

Story #2
...she is my closest female friend, and not once in 20+ years have I tried anything with her.

Taking you at your word from the second quote, it seems that you were content NOT to behave inappropriately with the LIQ while your marriage was going well.

However, your implication in the first quote, reinforced by the context you provided ("I considered my marriage as over, so I even...") was that that prohibition was certainly about to end. (How the LIQ could justify so quickly jumping the BH of her "friend and coworker" still eludes me, but I'm not a chick married to a drunk, so what do I know?) YOUR ease at accepting the possibility (advisability? necessity?) of an RA is what troubles people here.

Oh, and dude, your statement about the "contract" between you and FWW being voided by her affair may or may not be true - I'm not well enough grounded in religious theory to speak to that. But what was NOT voided, in any case, was the contract between you and the assemblage - temporal and ethereal - before whom you made those vows. All of this is opinion, you understand.

Rest assured I have no intention of berating you. I am way too busy and there are other posters to help who are interested in implementing MB principles.

If you are not serious about your marriage, I don't see why I should be.

So I'm out. Ill keep reading but have no interest in banging my head against a wall.

MM,
First off I thought you did the right thing on the other post and here is the

Second..Just throwing this out..
How would you feel if your wife was best friends with her Ex BF and spend that much time with him? Just a consideration..although your wife might not feel she can say anything at this point due to her A, she might be very hurt that you choose to keep her in your life even though she might smile and say she is ok with it..

My thinking is this would be a good time to also lead in what your asking of your wife and what MB suggest about never communincating with ex-whatever..

Ok..I am not trying to jump on your back..in my past before my wifes A..I probably would have thought their was nothing wrong with being friends with and Ex and doesn't have anything to do with Self Control but more about taking care of your wife feelings. Kudos for saving your marriage and being so strong!

**edit**

Let me answer your question with a question (or two):

What were the vows that you took? Did they include for better or worse?

The dictionary defines a vow as this: a solemn promise, pledge, or personal commitment.

On Dec. 2 you wrote in part: "I find myself looking at other women, wondering if I should try again with one of them. I have had several offers, since the affair, by some very beautiful and good women, and it makes me feel better knowing that I'm still attractive and wanted"

You filed divorce. She broke her vows and you decided to break yours (BTW, I am glad you didn't go through with it). You planned to go to a hotel to.... Talk?!?! C'mon man... Starbucks is a heckuva lot cheaper.

To answer your questions a little more direct:

1. A principle is a fundamental, primary, or general law or truth from which others are derived. It is generally accepted that what you attempted to do (whether your wife knew or not) was wrong. Not my definition, talk to Mr. Webster.

2. I am not God, nor do I want to be or profess to be.

3. It's not my way, it is a fundamental truth. All I did was repeat it... See #1.

Believe it or not, we are trying to help you.

CV

It wasn't an implication, it was an assumption. I have weekend getaways with my kids, parents etc. Or is it my wording that is causing trouble? BTW, I have never considered this Lady , an ex, so much as a long -time friend. Our relationship changed after I went into the service, and we realized that we were more friends than lovers. All of this, BTW, my wife knows about. NG, story#1 was used as an example of how committed I was to divorce at the time, not a statement that I was dating.

Perhaps not. Just because Indie has been in plan B for almost a year does not mean she is ignorant of how to work the MB plan. It does not mean she has failed. All it means is that her spouse didn't come on board. That really was a cheap shot at someone who is trying to help you, MM.

If people here didn't care about your marriage, they wouldn't be posting to you.

CV

Good. I'm honest too. Go back and re-read. I never said you were unprincipled. I asked you about them though. Maybe you should slow down and read and answer the questions, MM. I'm not asking them to bust your chops, I am asking them to get you thinking and looking. Truth is, I disagree with a lot of principled people. We just don't share the same ones.

Alis, I can see the confusion, but I can assure you that my wife and I adhere to the MB principles faithfully. BTW, I have apologized to Doro and you were right, I was not giving her the same encouragement I have given other people, and I was wrong.

NG, vows to the assemblage? WE were married by the Mayor, with his secretary and two others as witnesses. Am I married to them too? JK

No it wasn't, I have always liked Indie, but she has been denegrating my wife and my efforts , by saying that if we don't believe the way she does we aren't serious. I won't be talked down to by anybody.

I'm glad of that, CV. I like you and respect your opinions, even when I disagree. I happen to feel that we are making wonderfull progress. And I owe it all to the principles of DR. Harley, and the advice I have recieved from well-meaning friends, here and in RL. But mostly I owe it to my marvelous new wife, and (to give myself a pat on the back) ME as well.