Since she has not agreed to let you see them, then now is the time to send her the letter. The sooner you do this, the sooner you have an opportunity to see her.

If she doesn't respond to the letter, the the atty an file for divorce and they will immediately set up visitation.

Don't delay on this. You already know she is NOT cooperating.

This is a good Plan A. But keep in mind that Plan A is done with no expectations. It is all about WW right now. Just keep being a loving and caring husband fighting to keep his family together.

These are two separate goals. Stay trained on saving your marriage. I am concerned that you are only interested in 'fixing yourself'. Are you trying to save your marriage, or 'fix' yourself?

I don't remember all the details.

Did you expose to the HR dept. and head honchos at their work?

To be honest, the way I see it, if you did a good exposure there, alerting them to possible violations of company policy, morality clauses, misuse of company assets, possible legal implications, etc, then there is not a lot more you can do there. Sadly, not all companies react the way they should. If the company lets them wok together and you cannot show them that they are continuing to violate any policies or they don't care, then I don't see where you have much leverage. I don't see how you can stop work related contact. That assumes you did expose thoroughly there. If not, then you need to and hope that one of them loses their job.

That is not to say that if there is evidence of continued violations that you should not bring them to light. Document them and send them to the HR dept. and to his family again.

I would just ignore his laughable letters now. Deal directly with his employer and family, if you have new information of any contact outside work.

As far as your wife is concerned, get this through your head. All you can control is you. Just because you want to work on things and make a new marriage, well, that don't really mean squat, tbh. I imagine a big percentage of divorces include one side that does. She has to want it too. We know that as long as they see each other, that ain't likely, but until his wife/family (I can't recall if he is married) employer, or some other entity puts enough pressure on him that it stops then there isn't much you can do but wait. Same for her and her influences.

It is up to you to use those entities to your advantage, but even then, you don't control them,

That is why it is so important to do exposure thoroughly, dispassionately, and factually one time, so you have credibility.

You just have to plan a as long as you want to now. No expectations and no pleading, no begging, no explaining, no reasoning. Just you being nice, assured, confident and welcoming, but making your own way.

So, after that bunch of wind, the answer to your question of how long to wait, it is up to you and how you are doing.

But, I think your problem is the same as mine was and many are.

You have not waited yet. Always need to be active, to fix it.

You can't fix someone else.

You have a major advantage over the OM that you are not using. And that is that YOU are a father to her children. He cannot be a father to them. Most men don't like other men's children and the OM is a selfish punk who will not father them. She will soon realize that.

By getting visitation you will be highlighting that fact. You shouldn't leave that opportunity on the table. There are all sorts of possibilities with you pressing this visitation issue.

Guess I stated this wrong, I want to save our marriage more than anything, i also dont want to let it ruin me anyfurther and I need to watch out for my emotions.

melody
I agree, she will realize how seriouse I am on the kids soon.
He is a punk knows nothing of kids or how to deal with them. I will always be the kids father and they will hold this against her unfortunately when they find out why all this has happened, including holding them back from me.
The old addage if your digging yourself into a hole you dont want to be in stop digging applies here.

Yes I have not waited long since the exposure. I have though shown nothing but nice to her since Dec. and she has not been able to shake me from being loving to her since then. So yes I have not waited since exposure but a couple weeks but I have waited or played plan A since Dec.
When he wasnt around pulling strings she at times would play nice. then guilt would set in and she would have to be cranky to justify to herself she can only be nice to one person. I suspect!

Refresh my memory, too, please.

I'd almost be tempted to forward the dumbshart's email(s) to all of his coworkers asking them to please use their influence to make sure that he leaves your wife and family alone.

Then again, you wouldn't necessarily have to forward his email to ask that of them. In such a case, physical letters to every person in their office may be worthwhile. I did that with mine--believe it was 40 or so envelopes all mailed at once.

yes it was exposed to department managers HR manager ceo some general employees misc others.
it sounded like it ended up being a big deal and embarressing
family seems like it ended up being even a bigger deal for both.
for my wife she tried to deny it until they all told her they know she is lying and dont trust her
for him i dont really know how it went down but i guess his mom and dad were not to impressed and now he's embarressed. He and she seem to forget i didnt do this they did. i just told the truth about it.

I met with attorney today about kids.

In order to get court involved in custody/visitation I had to file some simmple paperwork for divorce stuff. It been waying heavy on my heart for days. This was my only choice I found after thoughts and prayers. The kids are being used as a pawn by my wife which is terrible.
My attorney said he see's it and for some reason people act crazy when someone is having a affair but usually it is the betrayed person who makes it really messy with kids or something. But in this situation my wifes acting Ludacrist his words wont respond since the exposure thing went on. I dont know what else I can do.
She had the affair, she made mistakes and now she wont respond to us for anything.

I have struggled so much but the kids need me and we deserve each other. Kids and I are suppose to go on vacation in 3 weeks and I cant get a returnd or response.

so we filed the paperwork and as soon as she signs she received it we can get the ball rolling but we cant do anything until that is done. Crazy the way the laws are. Its almost possesion means the most. I'm sure its hard to do things right because so many situations are so different. So at least the ball is rolling.
I still hold out hope she will come out of the anger and fog. I know MB and all you experts claim as fog clears it settles. Attorney also claims it usually settles down in some time.

He said the best thing he could wish for would be everyone would be responsable and smart. He said the only problem is he would be out of business, smart and responible people dont get divorced or need attorneys.

Update and advice needed

My attorney called my wife yesterday to talk about our situation.
She returned his call this morning. She ranted and raved right away about how I'm so bad, I'm telling lies to people about her and sending letters out that are wrong about her and what she is doing and she is scared because I wont stop telling lies.

My attorney said Liz I have no interest but to tell you the truth. I would assume as all this stuff has been going on He has said things I wouldnt advise him to say to you and on the other side I am certain you have said and done things that are not advised. She got quite.
He said so wife did you have a affair? She responds no! He is lieing!
Attorney was taken back because he felt they had built up some trust over the last 20 min. He has the emails admitting to the affair and it's wrong and stopping. She doesnt know that.
So he then told her well we will have some paperwork for you to look at next week early. Just so you know we will be going after custody/visitation. She got irate. She said I wont allow them to see him. Attorney said why. She said because he will tell them lies about me. Attorney said you dont have the rights to withhold the kids via law xxxxx. She then said I'm not withholding them it's there choice. Attorney said wait you just told me you wont allow it. She got quite for a minute. Attorney told her you may want to think of this but we will be persueing this in court if need be. If it does go that route alot of things and truths you may not like to come out will be brought out into the open. Your character will be in question so you may think on this until next week. She got quite and shortly after the conversation ended.

So he called me gave me some details and said he is floored at how much she wobbled and lied. His opinion is she is in complete denial and still will do whatever it takes to cover it up.

I have heard from some birdies that posom has told her we need to not have any contact and if we do it has to be profesionally appropriate only. He is stressed over this whole thing apparently.

Questions are she must be in the Fog big time still?
She is still in denial to everyone even though she knows I have evidence and at this point has made the decision to stay on the offensive and try to tell every one including the kids I'm a liar, stalker, making stuff up. I am going to meet the other person/mutual friend she txted this week for dinner hopefully so I can see what she was saying.
What would you advice be everyone
She wanted us to file divorce paperwork, we needed to for the custody situation, but she does not want to really cooperate.

Is this a case of the Fog?
Is this a extreme situation?
Is there a chance she comes to reality still?
She is remaking the past for her own guilt problems.
I am trying not to throw stones but I cant sit around while she makes me look bad in front of the kids right?
I would like to make marriage work very much. But I feel if I dont defend myself to some extent I'm just a pushover. And who wants a pushover? She has always admired my thought process and strength and conviction for doing things right.

Advice? Help needed?

The radio show today with the caller is a great example of our relationship and marriage. We did not change how we interact together. Or we never sorted out how we should have changed to work together. This is where our problems stemmed from . I want a open close relationship and she is afraid it was to good!

Things you control = the things you do

Things you don't control = everything else

If you remain, calm and honorable, then it will become apparent to everyone else.

I sent a reply letter to POSOM stating I am glad he agrees he needs to not talk to my wife anymore. I know he said professionaly only but I even that I dont want to happen unless it is un avoidable at work.
I told him he says he has had emotional damage! He has no idea what kind of emotional damage I am undergoing, or my family, her family, our kids. So please dont tell me you have emotional damage the only one to blame for that is yourself! I didnt get you involved with my wife! In fact you lied to me and told me you were not involved with her. Later after the proof came out and the truth got exposed to your family and some friends and work now your feeling bad and damaged? The only one to blame is yourself. The way to solve it is to do as you say and stay the heck away from my family and wife !!!
Gotta end will continue in a bit
Wife just called and is on her way over to talk out of the blue. Wonder what she is thinking?

Emotional damage! Ha

You do know that corresponding with a wayward is like talking alien?

You have more patience than I by corresponding with POSOP/OM.

Spend your energy on helping your WW out of the fog.

Like mmherb said you can only control your actions.

Well Wife came over to talk. She was shakenly upset. She said i had succeeded. I said in what? she said in making her feel lonely and abandend, I ruined her relationship, I ruined her work, people look at her in a weird way now, she may loose her job or for sure she will never get a promotion. She said I am scared because I dont know what you will try to ruin next. She said I am was done working on the relationship before I moved out. Then she said in many different ways I have made her feel so alone and ashamed, embarressed, depressed and now my life is ruined basically. She said you told posom to basically stay away right. I said yes for sure. She said well he is scared and says this is not worth it so please dont talk to me. Now she was pouting.

I told her it has never been my intention to ruin her life. It has been to end the affair and show her we can have a safe happy place together. I told her if she had put half the effort into this relationship for the past few months we would be happy also. She claims I did before this happened but you didnt respond, you didnt listen to me. I said I'm take blame for whatever problems or things I didnt listen or do, but again if you see how much effort I am putting into this now then if you sat me down or suggested we need to see a counselor or third party dont you see I would do it. I am at alot of the fault for you feeling neglected, I take that and understand that but I dont take the blame for you quiting and having a affair. Getting through to her at times seemed a little reasonable but at other times seemed to be in denial. She was very weepy and angry.
She just kept saying i succeeded in ruining her life.
She said I thought you were getting counseling help for yourself I said yes I am. She said this is how you act then you ruin my life and not work on your own. I said I have and do know and am willing to work on myself and our relationship if you allow us to. I cant work on us with you until its us and your willing to. She said I'm not going to because I dont want to be let down because you cant change how much you pay attention to me.

She said she will sit down with me and the kids and figure out how to make things work with me and the kids and her, she does realize that needs to happen. she said I think they play each other against each other, I said yes I've been telling you this for months, they tell us each stuff we want to here and so yes this has affected them in very bad ways. If we get together or not we have to work together on the kids so they can be healthy. We are going to set up a time to talk together.

When she left she was in her car and had the window down and said I dont expect you to forgive me but I wont forgive you.
I said I already forgive you. I want great things for you and I know we can do that together.
She said if you forgive me why did you ruin my life.
I said I forgive what you have done to us and the kids but I believe that if we work together with a coach we can have even a happier life together.
she just looked at me very sad and drove away.

So how did I handle this?
What is your opinion of her mindset?
Do you still think there is hope?
What else can or should I do?

Experts, Melody, MB,mmm, northwoods, anybody and everybody else glad to get opinions and advice.

Rts, please keep us posted. I imagine your wife is going to try to manipulate you into keeping silent because she is terrified this will come out in court. You need to keep her feet to the fire on that. She has no room for negotiation..

As far as the OM, there is absolutely NO CONTACT that is acceptable. You can devise some new cute names like "professional" or "business" but contact is contact. YOU should make it clear that NO CONTACT is acceptable. NONE. NADA. Dont even play around with that.

I hope you are not allowing your WW to play you while we speak. Be strong, be smart and stick to your guns. And most of all, do OT negotiate with terrorists!!

rt, don't be in such a rush to forgive your WW. She's done nothing to earn your forgiveness. If she commits to recovering your marriage, you both have a lot of work ahead of you. That's when you'll know if you should consider forgiving her.

She's still very foggy. Stick to your guns and make sure she knows that your requirements for her return to the marriage are not negotiable.

She's not done with OM by a long shot. The chance is good they're still in cahoots, and her little visit to you today is to get you to back off. I heard nothing in her foggy little speech that would encourage me to believe that the A is anywhere close to being over. And you can rest assured that it will never be over as long as they work together. That's a very simple fact.

She doesn't tell YOU how to 'make things work'. YOU tell HER the plan. And the first part of the plan is NC for life.

MB is dead-solid right with her advice.

You do not waver, negotiate, or bend in this matter.

Repeat ad nauseum:

WW damaged the marriage. WW had the affair. RT has fought valiantly to destroy the affair. Now is the time for the fruits of that struggle to be garnered. Do not give away what you worked so hard to achieve.

And, btw: Keep up the good work!

What a

I don't mean to laugh, but who does the little princess think she is?

She has wonderful children, a home she abandoned for a love shack, and a husband who is fighting for her with his last breath.

While she refuses to see this, while she remains foggy, she still intends to cake eat if at all possible.

To have you, the kids and the veneer of respectability on one hand and the OM on the side at work

.
True love, then.

Still, every time they see each other professionally she will be trigerred and so will he. Keep the pressure up for her to quit. She won't get through withdrawal otherwise.


You do realize this is where she will try to prevent exposure to the kids? To hi jack the truth and tell the kids that "mommy and daddy don't love each other any more". I would have a solo conversation with them regarding exposure.

Keep meeting needs like you have been, you're making OM look like an idiot in comparison.

Your lawyer sounds GREAT