I am in the same place you are with your WH. My WH is doing the same things. All talk and no action.

He actually told me to write the NC letter myself if I wanted it done. I don't believe the A is truly over yet.

We are separated but not totally doing Plan B. He calls to "talk" to our 14 month old son.

We wrote the NC letter. It was more like I had to write it. After an argument he finally sat down to write it and wrote something like he is going to search for the love of his life (me in the past). Once he gave up everything for her and he will do it again if he has to, so he cant meet her or see her any more. That was not what I expected so another argument and the letter took another shape.

So things are like that. We are back in square one. I believe him that he has stopped contact. I believe him that he truly wants to give our marriage a chance, but he really does not want to take the responsibility of what he did and work on fixing it. He is not that type of a person that would dig deep into things and work hard for them anyway. And he is still very foggy.

He did not want to give me his passwords for his new email accounts - well he gave it with another argument. He says he wants there to be 'him', 'me' and 'us'. He wants to have his own things in life- own friends,own time, own hobbies, own email accounts and whatever. He says he has lost his identity in our marriage and now wants to build it back.

He does not want to live like a dog all his life saying sorry and being controlled, but he does want to give our marriage a chance - our old love deserves it and our kids deserve it.

So what do I do? I saw the online program, I think that will help us if he commits, The price is too much for us right now, but if it helps us rebuild our marriage it will be priceless.
Is the online program good for infidelity? Or will it be better my H to have a coaching session with Dr Harley? He will not like any of those, but I believe I will be able to convince him.

According to him the last contact they had was on the 25th when he broke up with her. He said he's been trying to break up with her for few months now.

A small update. I have ordered all MB books I could find and finally read SAA. I bought those with the hope it will help us in the recovery process.
All talk, no actions, at least not the actions I expected from him. I cant even get him to read SAA - its always tomorrow, he is always busy, tired etc. I might add here that he has never really read books in his life, other than for studying.

He is depressed...but he has been like that for a very long time now. Is he in the withdrawn state after ending the A, or is he still going on with the A...I have no clue.
He is exactly like Sue from the book. No remorse, no desire for anything, no nothing. At least Sue and Jon started the recovery program and that saved them. I can't get him to even read the book, so we can implement the program. I asked him to read the agreement at the end of the book and he got really pissed off and said this is a contract and he does not want to live his life like that. After that he said ok, I guess just to escape the fight. Right now we cannot afford anything that MB offers.

We have started going to a MC, who is open to the MB concepts, but does not know much about it.
I don't know what to do anymore. He claims there is no contact, he has informed me twice when contact was made - this was in the beginning when he came back home.

survivergirl, sorry you are in the same situation. I can only advice you to implement properly plan B (it really does help you get out of the drama and see life again). Listen to the advices here, and to your instincts and good luck. My H was also very defensive and crazy about the kids. Now he is blaming me that I have hurt him so much, by using the kids for my own reasons. And I am also a bad mother for using the kids...Thats cos I let him see the kids only twice a week while in plan B plus also I have told our bigger son (4.5 at that time) that his father is with another woman and thats why the fights and the separations. His father was telling him we are separating cos we are fighting too much...yeah right

Hello,

I just read my last post and saw that 3 months after that post things are more or less still the same in our marriage. I think he has ended contact with OW, but that is pretty much all he has done. Nothing to invest in the marriage, nothing on meeting my conditions for recovery. The only difference so far is that he is out of the depression, more nice to me, more around the kids and helping in the house. Things might even seem normal from the outside...but they are not.

I was reading the 'buyers, renters and freeloaders' thread and for sure I am having a freeloader. I have even ordered the book today. He is avoiding conflict at any cost, no hard conversations, if possible no conversations at all. When things get harder between us, he immediately starts being that super nice and caring guy....until hard feelings are settled. He acts and believes that everything should be natural and 'true' and no efforts need to be made. Before he had a 'true' relationship with me, now whatever it is going to be he wants it to be 'true' - even if it means end of marriage.

I have given up my efforts to go on the recovery path, cos its just impossible when he is not willing to do anything.

I have days thinking its all ok, and its getting better by the day and there is some progress, and other days when I feel this cant go on forever and I am not going to settle with someone treating me and our marriage that way, many days I am thinking of moving out. He knows very well that I am not getting what I am expecting after the infidelity, but it seems he is just not willing to invest in this relationship. He even told me once that he will understand me if I move out. That I do not deserve this and he just wants me to be happy and may be I will be happy without him.

I thought I will give some time until the baby's first birthday which is in March and then will move out if things are not better. I will appreciate your thoughts and advices on this, you guys have helped me so much in my hardest times. Thank you.

I thought you were in plan B? Why are you talking to him? Is he back home?

Hello,

I was in plan B until the end of October when he came back home. He agreed on all my requirements, cried and showed real remorse. Told me how after what I did (plan B) he understands many things and how I should have done that long before. Then few days/ a week after coming back home all was back to how it was before. The NC letter was sent after a fight and no other of my requirements was met.

Now I do believe there is no contact between them, but can never be 100% sure. Recently he told me the HR called him and told him that the OW wants to come back to this country (she was on assignment) and asked him what was the state of his marriage. It seems he had to convince them for keeping his job. He was angry because he believes that he was about to lose his job thanks to me and my exposure. Or may be he was defensive while telling me that she might come back. The fact that he informed me of that is good, but there are so many more other things that are not good.

He is still foggy, he is not trying and not willing to try working on our relationship. He read like few pages of SAA after I made him and he did it with anger. Then he said he doesn't want to live his life on a book and wants only 'real' things and feelings.

After I saw that he is not willing to work on the recovery and is not any remorseful (at least not showing it) I just backed off and concentrated on my life so I can be independent in case we separate.

The good part is that there is some change in him for the 4 months he is home. Not the one I wanted or expected but there is. He is nice, very supportive, helping me home and with the kids. But after everything this is just not enough and given the fact that he is still foggy any conversation over the exposure or the affair becomes a fight. He does not get drunk anymore in the evenings and is mostly out of the depression he was in for the whole time of the affair and few months of NC. He is much more stable now.
While things are not the way I would want them and expect them to be after his infidelity, they are improving and getting better....but very slowly.

Yesterday I took him our for a dinner and he told me how he is scared cos our relationship is going nowhere. Then he added - "dont say anything I know you will say its all in my hands". It looks like he understands he needs to 'work' for this relationship to get better, but he is not willing to and is calling that a "dog's life'.


So I guess my question is - do you think it's possible that he is coming back emotionally slowly and at one point we can start real recovery? Do you think its possible that it just takes time for him to get out of all the emotions connected with the A, Or should I pack my bags and tell him "if you are not willing to fix the mess you made I am not staying in this marriage"?
He does not seem very worried if I move out, he even told me once he will understand me if I do. That I deserve better. He also said he feels "boxed" or "trapped", he was telling me the same while he was having the affair.

I am also concerned about DS5. He is very attached to his dad and another separation is going to be devastating for him. He is already concerned about that. He is not showing it but he is constantly asking me where is his father if he is not around.

I know I have been warned that he is not ready and I should not let him back home and deep down I knew that myself. I guess I just wanted this nightmare to be over....
Sorry for that I will appreciate your advice once more.

Livensi, I am not a vet so take my 2cents for what they are worth...

Your posts scream false recovery. I think you suspected this when you let him back home. Your WH does not seem genuinely remorseful. You, the BS, seem to be doing all of the heavy lifting. And three months in, you are understandably getting tired. This is one of the biggest dangers of false recovery. That the BS gets worn down, the LB$ drains, and the WS can then try to point the finger of blame that you left him.

You already seem to be preparing for separation. Your WH is encouraging you with this. This is not true recovery.

You say you "think" there has been no contact with OW. What snooping are you doing? What EP's have been put in place? How have the two of you affair proofed your marraige, so that WH does not have the opportunity to continue his A, or start another?

If I was in your shoes, I would be in touch with the Harleys. And following their advice.

And hugs to you too. I hope you are eating, sleeping and taking care of YOU.

IMHO, I believe that you were too eager to have him home, you let him come home to early.

He's not serious about recovery. He's not remorseful.

Have you thought about contacting the coaching center?

Wow...your husband sounds so much like mine...really. He came home in July but refused to do recovery "my way" aka MB for many many months. Honestly, not sure when it clicked for him or why (NC was veified for months and we even got an attorney to write a NC letter cause OW was nuts.) But I think he was in withdrawal from the independent lifestyle etc. and scared to be ALL IN, though he promised he was. (we were dealing with my affairs too.)

In our case, I was patient and tried to implement MB on my end, extraordinary precautions, working eliminating Love Busters and meeting his needs...basically Plan A all over again and being the best wife I could be even though he waffled at times. If you truly know NC is in place I would stick it out, he will chit or get off the pot at some point and I bet this limbo is wearing on him too.

By no means am I suggesting lowering your standards for recovery, but not all men can implement these changes as quickly as others have on this board. Is there any way he will agree to calling in on the Radio Show with you? I felt that was a turning point for us.

Livensi - I too think you both would greatly benefit from coaching lessons and/or guidance from the Harleys.
You are in a tough situation now, already exausted by so many false recoveries and the care of 2 young children.
You both seem to need outside help to move forward and start enjoying each other again, start meeting EN, etc. all with EP in place, of course. But you need to have both sides of the deal for this to work.
Take good care of yourself and your kids!

Thanks everyone for the support and help.

Caracal, thanks I am actually doing fine, much better than before. I know that I will be ok with or without him. If we get separated it will hurt me (again), but I think I have already gone through the hardest part of realizing and accepting the changes. I am doing many things for myself and am starting to stand on my own feet. I am selling a not very successful business; just finished my first semester, and am going to get a job soon. The kids are doing just fine. This is all possible thanks to my H financial support though. I don't know, it feels like the clouds have passed by and sun is starting to shine in our lifes....I just hope so, but everything is still so uncertain and fragile thanks to my H unwillingness to commit to the recovery program.

He is far from being remorseful or at least he is not showing it. So is Sue from SAA which gives me some hope, but she was committed to recovery.

I have made a mistake taking him back too fast, I know that, but cant do anything about it now. I know I cant go on much longer like that, I dont want to live in a crippled marriage. The way he is treating the whole situatuon and myself after all he did is killing me (my poor taker ). What should I do, I dont know. Should I give some more time, should I go back in plan B and move on with my parents and give all my conditions as an ultimatum for him? That will stress everyone and mostly the kids.

We cant use any of the coaching services for 3 reasons:
1.Money issues
2.He would never agree (The moment he sees me browsing through the forum here, he gets angry)
3.my english is not good.

I have not snooped much, nothing more than checking phone, emails and facebook. But it all happened in his work so he might have taken it fully underground. I cant install anything on his office laptop, because they have installed some security software that checks the PC and sends emails to his IT department if anything is installed.

I bought a VAR but have not used it yet. I think that will be my next step. I have a feeling that he is not keeping contact; many times I get triggered and suspicious though, but nothing comes up. He is definitely not 100% in emotionally for whatever reason, but is slowly coming back. May be its just taking him longer to get out of the withdrawal state...

CaliSun thanks for sharing your situation. How much time did it take for your WH to commit to recovery?

If anyone else has gone through a similar situation I will appreciate if they share.

Hello,

I am back on the roller coaster. The last time I said I am almost sure there is no contact and things are getting better, the next day I was feeling totally the opposite. Feelings are changing so fast that I am starting to get dizzy. One day I want to leave, I am sure he is lying to me, the next day I feel things are much better and he is slowly coming back.

Anyway I have installed a VAR, and so far nothing. But even if he is still keeping in contact it would be in his job, may be through their phone and chat systems. There is no way I can know what is going on there. Any suggestions?

He is not willing to cooperate for recovery in any way, he is nice and supportive, but he does not want to even give me access to his office laptop or bank accounts. This according to him is because I overtook all his accounts (Linkedin, yahoo, facebook) and changed all his passwords (this happened after I understood that he was lying all the time I thought we were in recovery).

I am really lost, please help me. Some things he does make me believe there is no contact, other things make me believe he is lying. How do I snoop more than that? His phone is clean and I tried figuring out if he has another phone, but so far could not find any. I have a VAR, but I can't install anything on his office laptop.

The last few days I am pretty down. I have spend a lot of time reading other people's threads and now understand that most probably I should go back to plan B. I read in several places that Dr H recommends the BS goes back to plan B if the WS is not remorseful or committing to recovery. That is my situation. I have been living with him since he came back after 1 month of plan B for 5 months now, and I don't think he will change and agree to recovery by himself.

I am not so sure if there really is NC, I tried snooping little bit harder but if its going on only at work I cant find anything. I don't know if the affair is going on and am little bit concerned I might need proof for that for any legal matters later on. I know that it would have been easier for me to go to plan B or even D if I find out that he is still lying and contacting the OW. May be the A is over, but may be they are still in contact and its just waiting to start over again.

I am still getting those kisses on the forehead and cheeks and little friendly hugs to sooth me when my mood is down. Those really piss me off.
I am still being called by my name and not how he used to call me before the A. And any affection or SF is something I have to beg for. Basically I am like a friend, I am sick of feeling that way.

I found a great offer for a summer vacation and he was not really enthusiast about it. He was telling me he does not know if he can take days off, what if this, what if that... Today I offered him to stay home and work and I take the kids with my parents for the vacation, but he did not want that he suddenly wanted to come and said he already spoke about days off at work.
Last year while the A was going on he did not want to come with us for a vacation. I am getting so many mixed signals.

Should I go back to plan B with no evidence that the A is going on?

Livensi - your signature line says that you have been in contact with his boss and from your thread I understood that he threatened him to fire because of the affair, right? His boss might be your allie, can't you talk to him to get access to your husbands office computer or gain the remote access?

The fog starts to lift when there is a firm NC. Since your H hasn't defogged at all, I very much suspect that they are taken their affair underground and found a way to continue it there.

Stay strong

Thanks for the answer Mrs_Recon6mo.

I guess I can contact him, but the thing is that he is a mutual friend and is trying hard to stay out of the picture and not get involved. He has helped my H get the job on the first place and he also might get some problems with his position if the whole thing comes out on higher levels. He even told me that if what I told him is true the company lawyers might sue my WH.
I have already asked him once if he can help me in any way to find if they are keeping in touch but he said there is no way. As far as I can see he just wants to stay out of this mess. It's hard cos this couple- him and his wife have been our closest friends throughout our relationship and now they both are backing off.

I will try once more to speak to him, the last time I tried contacting him he did not pick up, but called WH to check what is going on:(

OW is married, does he know what his wife been up to, have you ever contacted him?

I tried finding his contacts, but with no success. During my first FR WH was telling me that he has no connection with her and she is chasing and calling him all the time and he is trying to avoid her so dumb me - told him that if that goes on I will message all her facebook friends so she leaves him alone. I guess I was in some kind of denial and did believe him. Few days later she has blocked access to facebook friends. But her H was not on her list. It seems they are separated for years now and he is not even in the same country. This was confirmed by other people I spoke about this. I gave up searching for him due to that fact. According to my WH she was already searching for a new relationship.

If I go back to plan B - do I write him a new letter? I don't think I can make him leave again, cos he will be mad and I have no prove that he did anything wrong. He is paying for the mortgage, so I guess I will just pack myself and kids and move in with my parents.
Or should I give this some more time and see where it goes....I am so confused, and my moods and decisions are changing by the hour. Your advice is very appreciated.

Hello,

Yesterday was my son's first birthday. Extremely tough year for me and the kids. I hope live becomes better for us.

I have decided I am going back to plan B, cannot live like this any more. Whatever happens happens. I have 3 questions:

1.Do I write a new letter explaining why and what, or do I just give him the old plan B letter?
2.What do you think I should do? Pack myself and kids and move with my parents, or stay in our apartment and kick him out? The problem is that I have no proof that the A is still going on (if it is) and I will have no reason other than him not doing anything about the conditions I had. The other problem is that he is the one paying the mortgage, even if I stay in our apartment I will never be able to afford the mortgage. Plus all his money is going for loans, he does not have cash to rent an apartment, it will affect the bills and loans payments.
I am thinking that me moving out is the better option.
3.What do you think I should tell DS5? His father will play the victim here - how he did everything I wanted, he is not talking to OW anymore and how I am the bad.

Thanks for the help

That's it I have totally had enough. I am going back to plan B, although I do not want that and do not want to cause this to my kids.
The first step I took is just now I told our common friends that I no longer can be friend with them because they refused giving me information if OW is back to the country or not. They told me they do not want to take sides and cannot tell me anything, but want to stay friends....yeah sure.

I am totally down today, cant stop crying. I am planning to go before he comes back home from office. I am wondering if I should talk t to him before I go, tell him that I am not going to live like that in suspicion every day and if he wants to change and start working on fixing the mess he did I might stay for some more time to see if he does. And if he says he will the first thing I will ask him is a polygraph next week. Should I do that or should I just go and leave him the old plan B letter somewhere on the table and just cut off any communication after that? It's going to be pretty hard packing all the clothes and baby stuff for few hours, but I will do it
phew what a day, what a year, what a life.