So I've been reading through Dr Harley's concepts and have been stalking this board daily for a few weeks. Finally I decided to post my own story in the hope to get some help on my situation...
I'm recently separated from my husband and I have a 5 week old son. My husband left when our son was one week old. I guess the big difference between my story and most others on this board I that my husband didn't cheat or have an affair so implementing plan a is not really applicable to me.
So to cut a long story short, here is some background: I never wanted to get married or have children. My childhood was traumatic to say the least and my parents are both divorced - twice each. So understandably so, I couldn't ever see the benefit of marriage and I never wanted to bring a child into this world due to my own fear of being a [censored] parent due to my own [censored] parents' misgivings.
So when I dated H I was upfront. He was okay with it. He proposed I said yes. We broke up a year later because it was apparent i was never going to set a date. A month later I Realised that this is the man I want to spend the rest of my life with so it meant marrying him then so be it, I could give him that and be okay with it. Actually when I thought about it I really couldn't wait to spend forever with him. Fast forward 2 years, we are married and have an unplanned baby on the way. H was over the moon. I was hesitant but knew I would be ok with H by my side.
Feb 2012, baby arrives, marriage is going awesome and everyone is happy. Tired, but happy!
Son was one week old when we had a disagreement. H wanted to go out drinking and I thought he was being selfish. He snuck out and went anyway. The next day I went to my mothers. He begged me for two days to come home and that he screwed up and was selfish etc. Enter H's brother. He told H to let me go an get a divorce because I left with our son and that's not okay. He also said that I have a mental illness and H is better off without me so he can live his life as he wants and not be 'controlled' by me. H agreed and immediately asked for a divorce. I went home that night to sort it out and he left. He asked me if I wanted to stay in our house or move out. I moved out. I knew that he wouldn't be able to afford it by himself but nor could I. Fast forward four weeks, I've begged and pleaded, I've been hurtful and nasty, I've been short and sharp. Nothing has given me the desired result which is to save my marriage! He is now moving out of our home, he has started having sex with other women and he quit his own business and got a new job. Everything is pointing to the fact that he is moving on but I just can't accept it. I know that he loves me more than anything, he has opened up to me a few times and has even cried when he sees me and our son. I know that he will wake up to himself eventually and figure out what he has thrown away but in the meantime what do I do? How do I cope with a newborn baby while the love of my life is walking away. He refuses to talk to me about anything other than our son and everything I do is pushing him further away! When he left he said he has been unhappy for a long time and I will never change so there is no point in staying together. He said that having two happy separated parents is better for our som than unhappy together parents. The thing is though I don't believe him! I don't want our son to be a product of divorce and I think our marriage is worth saving, even though he doesn't agree at this point! I can't live in limbo any longer but I also can't afford to push him away further!

Anyway, that's my situation, any advice on how I can apply Dr Harley's concepts to that would be greatly appreciated. I'm in IC but it doesn't seem to be helping a great deal...
Thanks for taking the time to read my story anyhow.

Oh, Sezzard, what a lot to be going through!!

If you're only five weeks after having your first baby, you're dealing with huge hormonal changes on top of everything else. Is your mom a big help? I hope you have physical and emotional support at this time.

Okay...your question...applying Dr. Harley's concepts. Well, first of all, learn as much as you can about lovebusters and emotional needs. BUT my guess is, Dr. Harley would not suggest you plan A, I would guess he would suggest a plan B right away. Especially if your H is sleeping with other women only weeks after he left you and weeks after you had his child...You need to protect yourself from all that. Because no matter how much you want your marriage to work, you also have a little baby to take care of.

My first husband left when I was pregnant with our second child, and I had very little contact with him for a long time. I lived with my mom and my sister was around every day, but the hardest parts for me were not being able to share all those delightful baby milestones with someone else who adored them too. Yes, I had my family who loved my baby, but it wasn't quite the same as sharing all of that with her father. It was painful for a long time. I'm just saying this to prepare you...it's going to be hard to enter plan B when you want a marriage and to parent with this man. You came to make a lot of changes in your values leading up to your child's birth, choosing to get married. And it sounds like your husband was very excited about the baby coming. But his behavior is not something it will be easy to overcome. And it is his job to overcome it.

Going in to plan B will save you from the emotional turmoil of seeing him, seeing his emotions, having your own emotional rollercoaster. You will be able to stabilize and move forward with your life. And it doesn't mean that you will have no chance of reconciling with your husband, it means that you are protecting yourself until he decides he wants to be a husband and commit to the marriage, under conditions you will outline in your plan B letter. You will also need to find an intermediary to handle communication about your son and finances and things.

The other thing I would recommend is calling the radio show (and listening to some in the archives). I actually listen daily now...I've learned so much about applying the MB concepts to different situations and it makes me hopeful that marriage doesn't have to be a horror of two people constantly hurting one another. Marriage can be something wonderful. And at this point, I now realize I won't settle for anything less than a fulfilling, romantic marriage, and I hope you won't either.

Thank you Jennifer! I feel exactly as you described your experience. It hurts alot to know that he doesn't seem to care about his wife or son but I will try the plan B to protect myself.
I want to call the radio station but I am from Australia so I don't think I can! :-(
Is there a post about how to best implement plan b? I can't seem to find one anywhere. Or maybe I'm looking in the wrong place?
Thanks again Jennifer! I'm truly grateful for your help!

There isn't as much traffic in this forum. You might want to move it to "surviving an affair". Just click the notify button at the bottom of a post and you can ask a moderator to move it. There is a good post about plan B, I'll try and go find it.

Here's the thread "How to Plan B correctly" http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2482787#Post2482787

Oh, dear. I'm sorry you've had to find you way here, but welcome to Marriage Buildes. Please ask the mods to move you over to Surviving an Affair for more specific help for your situation.

Thankyou! I'll do that now! :-)

Reading your post...

"Fast forward four weeks, I've begged and pleaded, I've been hurtful and nasty, I've been short and sharp. Nothing has given me the desired result which is to save my marriage! He is now moving out of our home, he has started having sex with other women and he quit his own business and got a new job."

First. Begging and pleading, hurtful and nasty will NOT make your husband want to come home to you.

Secondly, you say he is having sex with other women. Do you know who these women are? You need to find out as much information as you can about them.

lastly, and perhaps most important you NEED to read the book Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley. It can be ordered on MB website or Amazon.

Thanks HDW. I'm not entirely sure the book is applicable to me because there was no affair. I have no proof that he is having sex with other women but just odd things I've noticed in his house that led me to believe he has. Short of putting a camera in his bedroom I have no way of finding out either. This is what makes my situation difficult, I can't apply the MB concepts as our break up isn't caused by infedility. It was caused by Issues in the marriage that weren't resolved properly and it got too much for my husband to deal
With. It seems he is super angry and hurt right now and has told me that there is no possibility of reconciling as he thinks I will never change. I just can't accept that though as I know it's not what he wants. So because there is no affair to expose or for him to tire of, I think the book isn't really applicable to me. Please tell me if I am wrong though and it might help regardless.

That is what you wrote. Now you say he is not having sex with other women? What have you seen that makes you suspect this?

Sezzard, so sorry that you are here. You will get good help here.

This smells like an affair to me. I agree that you need to zero in on that "he is having sex with other women" comment.

Well to say it out loud or even type why I think he is having sex with other women - it makes me sound crazy! Or at least I think so!

So H is very predictable. Usually anyway. He always sleeps with two pillows stacked on top of each other and when I left our home I left him his two pillows. So when I went back to collect mail the other day the pillows were laid out separately and his pajama shorts were on my side of the bed. Firstly, he always sleeps naked so it leads me to believe that he had someone else on our bed and he slept with these shorts on as a courtesy or something. Not only that, there is no reason for them to be on my side of the bed as it is furtherest from the door and the bathroom so the only reason they would be there was if he had sex and threw them on the ground.

The other reason I suspect it is happening is because a week after I left he went 'missing' for 24 hours. His family (who all hate me) called and text me asking where he was etc and they were so worried that they filed a missing persons report. I said he is prob with some girl somewhere and he will turn up. Well he did and when I asked his brother (who went to pick him up) where he got to all he could say was 'oh he won't tell anyone'. I call *edit* on that one.

And lastly he has added a whole heap of girls to his Facebook - including his ex girlfriend who is newly single but also with a 2 month old baby.

So the last time we broke up (when we were dating) he immediately went and got a girlfriend within 2 weeks (the ex that he recently added on fb). That lasted a month and he came crawling back to me.

So those are my reasons. Like I said they sound pretty dumb to me but I guess since I'm new I guess I don't know... Plus all of spare time he wanted to spend with me. He would fob off his friends to stay home and spend time with me instead. Second to his job, I was his life.

I saw him today and he is so incredibly angry at me still. I'm not even sure what for and he won't discuss it with me at all. Every time I have tried to ask him how he was unhappy or what I did that he is so hurt by he just says if you don't know then I'm not telling you. Very childish. He can't look at me and he is very short and sharp. I asked him if he wanted me to leave our son there for a few hours and he didn't even bother to respond. What the heck? I just really don't know what is going on in his head and I don't know what I can do to save our marriage. :-(

Sezzard, if he is sleeping with other women while married to you, that's adultery.

Married people cannot 'break up' and start dating whenever things are getting rough.They must divorce if things are truly over.

You as his wife have every right to expose any extra marital affairs and ask for peoples support in helping put a stop to adulterous relationships which are threatening your family.

Adultery is not just morally wrong, but legally and you should gather any evidence you can in case of a divorce, as well as for exposure.

For what its worth I think it highly likely the infidelities began before your separation.

Two days is a very short period of time for him to decide he's done and to break up a family.

This old GF in particular sounds like a danger and as though she is permanently kept on a back burner for him to return to whenever he wants. He could have been maintaining an EA with her all the time if not a PA.

What sort of contact has been between them over the years? Did they remain friends? Did he see her often, in passing?

You need to snoop like a bloodhound to find out.

Put a GPS in his car, put VARs in the house/car, download GPS and spyware on his cell phone.

I would also slap a keylogger on his PC or laptop. You need to know what he's saying to these women on FB.

His nasty angry attitude saunds straight out of the wayward handbook.

You will see an entire personality change in someone who has gone wayward.

Thanks indiegirl. :-)
In Australia there is a no fault divorce system so it won't matter in court if he is having an affair. We also need to be legallyseparated for 12 months before we can apply for a divorce so he essentially being with other women whole separated is not adultery - at least in his eyes and many others.

His family all support his decision to leave as our relationship has been rocky previously and not one of them care to keep our family together but are all insistent in H's happiness to come above mine or our sons. His friends have remained on his side although they have expressed that they disagree with his choice to leave.

He hasn't had any contact with ex since they broke up and he returned to me - she was engaged to the guy who got her pregnant and they broke up after baby was born.

He takes his phone everywhere with him. I'm talking - toilet, shower, bed, everywhere. There is never an instance where I can put spyware on his phone unless it's remotely - which I haven't been able to locate one yet - any tips?

He also accesses Facebook and emails from his phone and rarely uses the computer.

I no longer live in our house but when I do go back there I check the Internet history and I have found nothing other than a porn site once. And because I go to the house when he isn't there I can't put a gps on his car.

I want to find out as much as possible but not sure how given all of the above.

Also, can you tell me how you stay sane throughout all this? I have a newborn to take care of and the thought of doing this makes me wonder how bs's manage to keep their food in their stomach while snooping and finding out things that will shatter their hearts all over again. Even when I check his computer and find nothing I feel like I am going to vomit!

And lastly, I haven't done a plan a because I didn't get the opportunity - I mows out immediately so I'm essentially doing NC with him so he will get a taste of divorced life so I need to start on plan b in the coming days. I'm just not sure what the first step is in plan b as I am currently not having any contact with him unless he initiates it about our son. It seems like a lot of work - which im prepared for - but I'm concerned it will drive him further away - especially with the plan b letter (when I haven't even done a plan a of fulfilling his EN's)

I hope all that makes sense and if not I'll be happy to clarify. Thanks again for your help and perspective on his adultery. It has opened my eyes to the possibility that this has occurred before we separated.

To clarify.....needing to be separated for a year before applying for divorce doesn't mean he isn't engaged in adultery. He is. Your legal system built the year of separation for a reason....to allow a marriage a chance to survive with reconciliation.

How do you deal with the emotions? Read this link and read it again and again and start on the plan it outlines. http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1659680#Post1659680

Having a plan to follow will help you deal with being betrayed by your mate and father of your child. You will still feel a lot of angst but not nearly the amount you would otherwise be feeling without a great plan to guide you.

Have you gotten legal advice? You need to do that ASAP anyway to protect your finances and your interests re child support and custody. We have a few Aussies around who may chime in shortly. Adultery is not really penalised in my country, the UK either but at least I was able to cite it on the paperwork, something that pissed my WH off no end as it interferes with his fantasy world. The more inadequate your country's laws are, the better your legal advice needs to be.



Sadly this true for pretty much every BS. Even when all the friends and family members are great, the wayward tends to create a new group of toxic supporters.

Remember though that you haven't yet snooped or exposed so you don't know what the response will be. I am sure many people are not willing to support his decision to choose random skanks over his wife and new baby.

But until you make a stand, telling people you are willing to fight for your marriage and that you cannot do so while the skanks remain - they don't have the option to support you.

I would read the Exposure 101 thread - it also covers how to expose while separated.

That is typical of an adulterer. Was he exhibiting this behaviour before you separated? There is no way you can use a phone in the shower. He doesn't want you answering it while he showers.

This is a good sign because he clearly knows he is doing wrong and doesn't want anyone to find out.

The whole point of exposure is to exploit that sense of shame and do exactly what the wayward fears - revealing his secrets.

Can you make up a reason why he should loan you his car or take you somewhere?




You need to plan A before you can Plan B and that involves snooping and exposure.

You can meet ENs and avoid LBs long distance, in fact sometimes makes it easier.

Plan A only lasts 2-3 weeks, so get your skates on.

Look good, smell good, be the blooming new mother who has something none of his skanks have - his child.

In the UK we call them yummy mummys!

Flirt like crazy. He will be sullen and generally awful, but you work your script and ignore it.

I see in your sig, that you are of a warlike bent and you need to be Mata Hari.

The Art of War (see my sig) involves leaving bait out to entice the enemy.

Read up on the carrot and stick of Plan A.

I will bump you the Plan A thread and Exposure 101 thread so its easy to find.

Yes, I think your original thoughts were backward: he was angry and left you because he was having an affair. He didn't find a girlfriend after he left you. And men don't file for divorce because their brother tells them to. They leave so they can concentrate on their affair partner.

I suggest you move back into your house immediately. You've done nothing wrong to require you to leave your own home. And you're giving him free reign to conduct his affairs in your marital bed.

Move back and tell him you were wrong to leave. Tell him that you love him and want to make a great marriage. That will give you a chance to Plan A him and to set up some surveillance to find out who he's affairing with. (My money is on the single chick with the two-month-old baby.)

Ok I'll try and answer all your questions!
Thank you for the link, I've started reading it and writing down some tips!

Yep, I've called a lawyer a few times now just for some guidance and clarification on things. It seems to help my peace of mind more than anything as I am clear on where I stand legally.

Yep, he has always taken the phone everywhere. Mainly because he was self employed and he has been know to answer the phone mid shower so he doesn't miss a client call, even though I too think it is is behaviour. Maybe I missed that sign of an affair early on?

I'm kind of stuck between plan a and plan b at the moment, trying no contact but at the same time being the best I can be. I always look f
And when I see him and remain upbeat and happy when my heart is breaking!

I can't move back in to the house unfortunately. The reason I left was because I couldn't afford it on my maternity leave income and he has made it clear if I go back that he will move out and not contribute a cent to the rent. He is actually a month behind in Rent now as he can't actually afford it by himself either.

I'm looking forward to doing some more research on snooping and reading the exposure 101 post.

I dis read the art of war post and thought I would put that on my sig to remind
Me that I'm fighting a war and not just a battle. I need to be prepared and the post has really enforced how to do it. My husband is ex military so he knows all about war etc but I'm hoping his training eludes him for this one!

So as most WS usually do, H sent me a text today saying 'I miss the happy us'. How do the BS's respond to this? I know not to get my hopes up as it means nothing at this point other than he is doing some reflecting. I just can't figure out if it's a good or bad thing and how I'm supposed to respond to it. I know I need to do the opposite of what my instinct is but even my instinct is confusing me! Agh!

Thanks again for your help - Im so glad I found this board and I followed Mr Wonderings' advice and posted my own story!