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We are 6 wks. Post D-Day, in MC and I have now scheduled my 1st. appt for IC. We have started some of the questionnaires from MB: Emotional Needs / Recreational Activities.
From what I do know, my WH was having an EA with an old girlfriend/friend. They had been in contact for the past 6+years. I discovered that he had put her phone number back in his phone after he told me that he deleted it months before. I have known over the years that they were keeping in touch as �friends�, but just didn�t believe that there was anything else. She lives in another state, but they managed to see each other whenever she came in town.
WH sent a NC email 1 week after D-Day after I demanded that he send it.
He divulged that he had two lunches with her (one of which I knew about and was actually invited to, but I declined. My husband went ahead and had lunch with her anyway even though I told him that I didn�t think it seemed right. He also took her out on our boat one day to talk. Our boat is very sacred to us. My H and I have been dealing with infertility for the past 2 and � years, and have been doing everything possible to start a family. I found out the day he took her out on our boat was the day that he had his first sperm analysis. I felt like someone ripped my guts out when I heard this� I am still devastated about it all. He assures me that he picked her up and then they went out and dropped anchor to �talk� about her divorce, because she was really upset. He told me that he was fishing while she was talking and then he dropped her back off at her mom�s condo (where she was staying while in town) and went out fishing the rest of the day by himself. Currently, our boat is FOR SALE!
*His reasons for seeing her, talking on the phone, texts, emails, etc. was that she was just a friend and he had a hard time telling her �no�, especially when she was going through difficult times. He said he didn�t think I had a right to tell him who he could or could not be friends with. He said that he felt uncomfortable and had butterflies a couple of times going to meet her, but he went ahead and did it anyway. I keep hearing from him that he has already told me everything, that it�s over and they were just friends and the only thing that happened between them physically were hugs. He said he hasn�t had any communication with her since he sent her the NC email.
*He did block her email address and deleted her as a contact after I asked him to do so. I really have no proof of their �friendship� being anymore that just a friendship, because he deleted EVERYTHING! He deleted texts, vm�s, call history, emails, etc. I have no idea what they talked about. He said that he has a hard time letting go of �friends� and assures me that they were only friends.
*I found old pictures and cards from her (before me) that he had saved. There were many pictures of them together and the cards from her said Love, All my love, Love Always and other sexual innuendoes. I asked him after D-Day if he was in love with her and he said, �NO�!!! I asked him if she was in love with him and with a softer tone he said, �I�don�t �know�. I burned all of the pictures and cards!
Our MC realizes that his friendships are extremely important to him. She asked him to distinguish which relationship was more important: The relationship with his wife or the relationships with his friends. He told our MC that they are both important. This of course brought me to tears�WH says that he was trying to pull away from the OW, because he felt like it was too risky. He said that he felt like his time was running out and he was afraid of getting caught.
*My husband has made a timeline for me, but I still feel that there are details that are being left out. There seems to be a lot of things that he can�t remember or doesn�t really have the answers to and he doesn�t even know why he did certain things and keeps telling me that it was a mistake and he wishes it never would have happened.
I had made a decision a couple of weeks ago to contact OW�s ex, because I wasn�t sure if he was aware of the situation...Here are the facts that he told me:
*They are not divorced. They are living in separate residences, but �working� on their marriage.
*He said that his W filed for divorce one year ago, which was 4 months after my husband took her on our boat to discuss her divorce, which was a lie!
*He was aware of my H and that his wife told him they were just friends, but that they had dated in the past. He didn't agree or understand their "friendship".
I told my husband and he said he felt �duped�. He also said that he felt stupid for allowing her back into his life and that she made things seem worse than they really were. He said he was angry for her lies and felt that he had no one to blame but himself.
Last edited by starfish75; 03/14/12 12:56 PM.
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I have been reading here for a while now and have been wanted to post, but just not knowing where to start. I am sorry that you find yourself here. There are many good people here to help you. You say that you have been reading here for a while...so I think you know deep down inside that you need to expose to people of influence in your WH life. Tell MIL what is really going on and ask for her support. Schedule a poly. I'm not sure that you have the whole story and trickle truth will only set you back to square one everytime. Keep reading and posting. MB is a goldmine of information and experience.
ME: BW
HIM: FWH
Married 18 yrs
DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008
Recovered
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Schedule a poly. sorry but i dont think a chat on a boat was a chat. from my unfortunate experience, dont belive him. after i found out about OW1-the drama got better, baby momma (ow3 or whatever number) wrote a note about how sorry she was about our difficulty... blah blah, then i come to find out they just kissed once, then it was more- this trickling lasted over 3 months. there are way to many  here. I am sorry you are in the right place- read everything on this site get SAA. do exactly what the vets tell you to do, dont hesitate, get a keylogger on the computer and a tracker on the phone, gather any new information you can find. i am sorry but i dont think this is the end of it.
Last edited by chickadee1; 03/13/12 10:48 AM.
Me 44- yes ugggh
WH 47
together 26 years M 19
serial cheater big time
DD1 2.24.11
NC letter sent 3/7/11
NC letter to OW2 april
final truths 5/8-- all of them poly confirmed 5/18
working the plan
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How do I go about informing my in-laws about my WH and the EA?
My MIL is in town right now and my FIL is home two states away. Should I send them both emails anyway, hoping that she will check her emails while she is here? She is wanting to see us this weekend.
Regarding the polygraph, I have already asked him about the polygraph and he became very angry and said that we need to figure out what our next step is if I wanted him to take a polygraph, because he has told me everything and he would not take a polygraph At first, it was the thought of the polygraph and then it was the cost. I had an address and cost (I made up the cost of $500), so he flipped out about the price. He said there was nothing physical at all except hugs. A part of me believes him, but a part of me thinks there was something more. We spoke with our MC (Psychologist) about the polygraph and she said that I'm not going to get what I'm looking for as far as answers, because they can only answer Yes or No to the questions. She also said that they aren't admissible in court and that she thinks the OW's BH is probably correct thinking that nothing happened between them physically. Our MC seems to believe that my H is telling the truth. For those of you that did do a polygraph, what happened and what was revealed to you that you didn't already know? Was your WS ok with taking a polygraph or did they fight it?
Last edited by starfish75; 03/13/12 11:52 AM.
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starfish, I don't have time to read your long post [if you want more responses, I would suggest cutting it back to about 3 to 5 parapraphs] but I do know that resistance to polygraphs is an indicator that he is lying. We have had so many instances of the WS suddenly spilling his guts when faced with a polygraph that I hardly know where to start. Your H's reaction indicates he is lying. You will not recover until you get the full truth. You will wonder EVERY DAY if he is telling the truth and drag it out him a drib at a time. On the other hand, if you schedule a polygraph, 75% of them will confess the truth before the test. The way we have had the most success is for the BS to just schedule to polygraph without warning. Then 2 days before the test hand him a list of your questions and give him one last chance [an amnesty period] to come clean. Then if he flunks the polygraph you will know he is still lying. What typically happens is that they confess before the test and then they pass the test. It is important that you follow through on the test throuhg. A wayward who is SINCERE about recovering his marriage will GLADLY agree to take the polygraph becuase it is an opportunity to prove his veracity. A WS who runs frmo it is still lying. I am sorry.  Most marriage counselors are very inept and unqualified to save a marriage after an affair. They don't understand the dynamics of an affair and have no idea how to save a marriage. They have an 84% failure rate and have a higher personal divorce rate than the general population. I would NOT suggest getting advice on how to recover from an affair from a marriage counselor. They are notoriously destructive to marriages when there has been an affair.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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How do I go about informing my in-laws about my WH and the EA? Call them up today and tell them all about the affair. Ask them both to speak to your husband. Have your children been told of the affair?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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We spoke with our MC (Psychologist) about the polygraph and she said that I'm not going to get what I'm looking for as far as answers, because they can only answer Yes or No to the questions. Most MCs don't understand the dynamics of affairs and often do more damage than good, as evidenced by the above response. There IS no recovery as long as the wayward is still hiding things. A poly is a GREAT tool to get the full truth...because often the WS will confess all before you even get there. And if they balk at taking one, that is very telling in and of itself.
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I understand my post is long and I apologized at the very beginning. As I mentioned, I've been wanting to write for quite some time, but didn't know where to start. I'm sorry it's long, but I'm not sure how to make it shorter at this point and I'm at work. I agree that I will probably get more responses if it is shorter, but I'm actually happy with the responses that I'm receiving so far and will try to shorten later when I have some time.
We do not have any children to tell this to. We have been dealing with infertility for 2 & 1/2 years, so we don't have children (another painful subject).
How do I go about finding a qualified person to perform a polygraph in my area. Is there an organization that they should be a memeber of, etc? I'm not sure how to go about this and he thinks the polygraph is already out the window, so I'm not sure how to bring it up to him again. I'm afraid that he is going to be very angry.
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They fight it when they are lying.
They OFFER to do it HAPPILY to relive your PAIN if they are truly remorseful.
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I understand my post is long and I apologized at the very beginning. As I mentioned, I've been wanting to write for quite some time, but didn't know where to start. I'm sorry it's long, but I'm not sure how to make it shorter at this point and I'm at work. I agree that I will probably get more responses if it is shorter, but I'm actually happy with the responses that I'm receiving so far and will try to shorten later when I have some time. You would definitely get more help if you shortened it up. We don't need 1/3rd of that information to get it, and most people don't have the time to read such a long post. How do I go about finding a qualified person to perform a polygraph in my area. Is there an organization that they should be a memeber of, etc? I'm not sure how to go about this and he thinks the polygraph is already out the window, so I'm not sure how to bring it up to him again. I'm afraid that he is going to be very angry. Extraordinary precautions [one of which is to get all the truth] are not negotiable. I would not make this negotiable at all since getting the truth is the first step towards recovery. You won't recover if that doesn't happen, you will linger along in a state of doubt for years until you get the full truth. You will drag it out of him one drip at a time and every time that happens, you will be put right back to Day 1 of recovery until you can't stand it anymore. It is to die a death of a thousand cuts. If he is "angry" because you need to be assured of the truth, then that is a further indicator he is hiding something. If he serious about repairing the damage he caused, he should be willing to do what it takes. His negative reaction is a huge red flag. To find a polygraph tester, call your local police station and ask if they can refer someone. Former police officers are often polygraph testers.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Regarding the polygraph, I have already asked him about the polygraph and he became very angry and said that we need to figure out what our next step is if I wanted him to take a polygraph, because he has told me everything and he would not take a polygraph At first, it was the thought of the polygraph and then it was the cost. I had an address and cost (I made up the cost of $500), so he flipped out about the price. he flipped out bc he is scared, if he were telling the truth no amount of money would stop him from proving it. He said there was nothing physical at all except hugs. A part of me believes him, but a part of me thinks there was something more. originally you said they were just chatting, see just chatting turns into hugs We spoke with our MC (Psychologist) about the polygraph and she said that I'm not going to get what I'm looking for as far as answers, because they can only answer Yes or No to the questions. She also said that they aren't admissible in court and that she thinks the OW's BH is probably correct thinking that nothing happened between them physically. Our MC seems to believe that my H is telling the truth. For those of you that did do a polygraph, what happened and what was revealed to you that you didn't already know? Was your WS ok with taking a polygraph or did they fight it? look at the link on plygraphy questions, i will post when i can find. my H gladly took the test and as Susie and ML said, he fessed up the rest before the test. so no more was found out, but after 3 mos of trickle i finally knew i had all of the information. It made me feel better and i knew for sure that that was all of it. I didnt do it to use in court, i did it for myself and h did it for me to make sure i knew he had told me everything. H was releved that he did it. you can ready my post read from feb to may and see why its important to do this. http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=163075&Number=2603828#Post2603828
Me 44- yes ugggh
WH 47
together 26 years M 19
serial cheater big time
DD1 2.24.11
NC letter sent 3/7/11
NC letter to OW2 april
final truths 5/8-- all of them poly confirmed 5/18
working the plan
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Also -- Marriage Counselors cause more harm than good.
They rarely have a plan for restoring romantic love to your marriage. That would be a question I would ask them.
Marriage Builders has a specific plan.
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Whats really bad about marriage counselors - and this has happened here - is that do not understand the dynamics of infidelity so they have no idea how to recover the marriage. They become destructive when they validate bad practices such as recommending no polygraph.
Most notable here is that the MC does not understand that starfish's WS's objection to the polygraph is an indicator he is lying. How come we know that and the MC does not?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I'm getting major anxiety just thinking about the polygraph, because I know how he reacted last time. How do I specifically go about it and how do I tell my H about the polygraph? I have contacted the local police dept. to see if they can refer me to a reputable company. I'm so scared and I don't know what kind of questions to ask him. Are there specific questions that I should be asking? He swears to me that nothing happened on the boat. I don't think anything happened during their lunches, because he only had 1 hr. and he met OW, her sister and her sister's daughter for one of the two lunches. The only thing I'm really concerned about is the boat day.
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I'm getting major anxiety just thinking about the polygraph, because I know how he reacted last time. How do I specifically go about it and how do I tell my H about the polygraph? I have contacted the local police dept. to see if they can refer me to a reputable company. I'm so scared and I don't know what kind of questions to ask him. Are there specific questions that I should be asking? He swears to me that nothing happened on the boat. I don't think anything happened during their lunches, because he only had 1 hr. and he met OW, her sister and her sister's daughter for one of the two lunches. The only thing I'm really concerned about is the boat day. Make the appointment for the polygraph first!! You tell him that in order to go forward you must be assured that he is telling the truth. This is the only way you can even consider forgiving him. Explain that don't believe large portions of his story but are giving him an opportunity to prove his veracity. Tell him: "this is what it will take to prove to me you are being truthful. I have scheduled a polygraph for this Thursday at XXXXX. I have composed a list of questions that I need truthful answers to in ADVANCE of the polygraph. I consdier this an amnesty period. If you answer all of these questions truthfully NOW and pass the polygraph, I can consider forgiving you for your affair. But in order to do this, I must have all the truth." I would make up a list of questions and give him 24 hours to answer them. Ask if he had sex with the OW on the boat or at their lunches. [having nooners is very common] Ask any other questions, such as if he has had other affairs. He doesn't work with the OW does he??
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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starfish: I need for you to take this polygraph
WH:[outraged] I can't believe you don't trust me!! You don't trust me, do you??
starfish: no, I do not. But passing the polygraph will help me start to trust to you more. You do want me to trust you, don't you? I am giving you a great opportunity to start to earn trust
WH: but we can't afford it!!
starfish: it is cheaper than a divorce and that is where we are headed if I don't feel safe in this marriage. This is one of the things that will help me feel safe
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thank you so much MelodyLane!!!
I'm going to get started with the questions and waiting for a call back from the PD.
Should I still call my in-laws tonight?
No, the OW lives 6 states away from us...Thank God! Her mom lives down here, so she comes to visit a few times/year.
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Yes, call the inlaws and call the OW's mother. Ask the OW's mother to keep her away from your husband.
Don't forewarn your husband. Just ask his mother to speak to him about acting like low down trash. If my son behaved in such a despicable manner I would give that boy a piece of my mind!!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I will definitely call my MIL tonight. Is there something in particular I can ask her to help me with regarding WH? I'm not sure I can ask her to talk down to him like trash. She knows that we are in MC and working on our marriage. I'm just not sure what to ask her exactly... See, the problem is that my in-laws attended her wedding and I think they truly believe that she is a friend of my H and their family. They don't see her and I'm not sure they speak with her, but I want to make sure that NC goes for the whole family.
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Joseph's Letter.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"To Whomever,
"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.
"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.
"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is will affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.
"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.
"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."
(end of Joseph's Letter)
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