But, it is not a blow to his ego to give you the truth. That is the obligation of any truly remorseful person who wants to make his victim whole. I would frame it like this: "I am willing to let you earn my forgiveness if you do certain things. But I will not stay in a marriage where I have to wonder if you have told me the truth. I am willing to give you an opportunity to prove your veracity by taking a polygraph. I have set up an appointment with a polygraph tester for Tuesday. I will give you one last chance to come clean before the test by answering these questions. I consider this an amnesty but I fully expect that you will pass the polygraph after answering these questions. If you don't pass the test, I will reconsidr my future in this marriage becuase I know that recovery is impossible without honesty. "

If he throws a fit, just politely say: "I consider your refusal to take the test an indicator that you have something to hide. You have given me your answer." Then walk out of the room. His refusal is an indication that a) he is still lying and b) he is not serious about recovering your marriage.

Pokerface: I couldn't agree with you more. I'm just doing everything I can possibly think of to get him to open up to me! The tears are streaming down my face right now. I love him with everything that I have and my heart and mind are completely broken and shattered. I just don't know what else I can do or say!!! I'm beyond words... Why can't he just come clean if there is something else? I am already so hurt, that I don't know if anything else would surprise me. I just want the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!

I'm so heartbroken! We have been dealing with infertility and I'm not getting any younger. This has put an ax into our plans and I'm just devastated!!! Will I ever have a baby/family to call my own? The pain is unbearable!!!

To pokerface's point, you need to emphasize this is a deal breaker. And it is because your marriage can't recover as long as he withholds truth or you think he MIGHT be doing so. So while you make it clear that this is a deal breaker, it will take 10 days to 2 weeks to implement Plan B. It would start with asking him to move out. And he does need to move out if he doesn't come clean. Just tell him that is where this is going.

I am hopeful that he will come clean once he BELIEVES you are serious. He won't believe it at first so you are going to have to hold your ground and NOT WAVER. The future of your marriage is dependent upon you hanging tough and being resolved.

I'm trying to think of all the resistance I might get from him and to appropriately respond...I want to make sure that I remain calm, strong, secure, determined, adament and focused. I need a plan, so I'm taking notes. Should I speak freely to him or should I read what I wrote?

I'm going to do my best to memorize this... It's perfect!!! Thank you do much!!!

AMEN.


(((Star))) I remember feeling exactly as you are now and I kept trying to educate and convince my FWH that I needed the TRUTH. I kept trying to convince him that he could not possibly hurt me any more than he already has.

It didn't work. I had to get tough strong and I had to mean it.

This will make you laugh... my FWH refused a poly on "ethical" reasons. Apparently sneaking around with one of the mothers was not breaking any ethical principles.

You are going to be fine Star. Be prepared for your WH to refuse until he sees that you are serious. Be cool, calm, and in control.

So when he goes crazy and tries to throw you off balance, be prepared with a simple statement:

WH: I can't believe you would ask me to do such a thing!!! you don't trust me!!! That is ridiculous! You are punishing me!!

starfish: so your answer is no? I guess I have my answer, don't I? Thank you.

then leave the room.

But make sure you leave the list of questions with him. Don't fight, don't beg, don't plead. Just say thank you, I guess I have my answer, don't I? I predict he will rant, rave and bully you in order to avoid this. That is how a typical wayward acts when they are being dishonest and are being held accountable. BE PREPARED for a drama queen act and be prepared to STAND FAST!

Thank you so much!!! I wish I could hug you both!
I am going to give it my all... and yes, I can relate with your past feelings. I am so very thankful for your support here... more than you will ever know!!!

I promise to stand strong and be firm!

hugs to you, starfish!! I know it is anxiety provoking NOW, but doing this will alleviate enormous anxiety in the FUTURE. It is short term anxiety for long term PEACE. Versus short term anxiety for long term anxiety if you don't do this. This way you get PEACE one way or the other. With him or without him. But I STRONGLY PREDICT it will be with him. You just have to show him you are serious! And I know you can do it! You are a strong, determined woman...

We have one BW who is in a very solid, happy marriage today because she set forth very specific standards for her WH. He ranted, raved, and went crazy for 2 days. She insisted he needed to pack and leave that weekend if he did not comply. She explained that her conditions were not negotiable. So sorry! After 2 days of trying to scare her into submission, he figured out she was DEAD SERIOUS and he agreed to her all her conditions. They are in a very happy marriage today. But if she had not held him to those non-negotiable conditions he would still be working with the OW today and they would likely be split up by now.

That is what you are facing. I suspect he is used to getting his way when he rants and raves a little. You just can't sacrifice your mental health and your peace of mind for the sake of the tantrum of a wayward. Don't even think about doing it.

Thank you so much.... I know you are right. I am definitely experiencing a lot of anxiety again. It's strange how you feel ok for a couple of days (spending time with WH) and then it will hit me that I'm not so sure about everything. I'm not sure about what he is telling me to be true. I'm just so nervous about having a conversation with him about it, but I still have a few days to get myself together. I am usually a very strong woman, however, I haven't been feeling that way lately. I'm usually a very strong woman, but lately I feel so defeated and deflated. I know I'm still in there somewhere, but it's just so hard to find her at times... I hope this makes sense. I just want to have faith again and right now I feel so broken.

I am definitely seeing the truth and yes, PEACE is absolutely what I desire. I want to feel content again and know that I have the facts, so I can begin the process of rebuilding our marriage. I will stand my ground and I have taken lots of notes, so I'll be prepared for our conversation this Sunday.

Of course you feel this way Star. Everything that you believed about your life has been shattered and you feel like you have no control because of the unknowns.

Seriously, I can remember considering if I should commit myself to the psych ward. But once I decided on my plan, I felt better and stronger. Whenever I was hit by doubt, I stuck to my plan.

Remember, you don't have to make any decisions about whether to stay in the marriage right now and that gives you control. Just keep working the Plan. Give it time to work. Take each day one at a time. Cool and calm.

Saw my IC today and you'll never believe who was sitting in the waiting room when I was leaving... My MIL! OMG!!! She is in town from out of state and had a couple dr.'s appt's. I disclosed everything to her two nights ago. Both of us saw each other and our jaws dropped!! She said she was planning on calling me to tell me about this IC, because she thought she might be good for me. She is familiar with MB and Creighton Model (infertility). Anyway, my MIL hugged me so tight and we just cried. She said she didn't want to lose me and asked me if I could forgive her son...? I told her that it's going to take some time and he still has questions to answer. About that time, our IC came out and saw us both together and she was in shock! She apologized and said nothing like this has ever happened before. My MIL and I assured her that we didn't have a problem with it at all.... Crazy coincidence or fate? Very strange morning!!!

very strange!! your mil lives out of state and see the same IC????

stick your plan, i know its hard, but you had a good day and i am sure you are feeling a bit empowered. you got initial meeting with MIL over in a very weird situation.

do you think she told you H about the meeting?

did you tell her about the poly?



please remember this its what got me thru many months

Thank you so much Chickadee for your quote again... I really like it!

No, I didn't tell my MIL about the poly, but did mention it quickly to my FIL. I'm getting mixed reviews about it from the close friends that I have shared it with. Most understand my need to know the truth and wanting it to move forward, but there are others who tell me that the thought would scare the $hit out of them whether they had something to hide or not.

I did tell my WH about my meeting today with his mom at the IC's office. He thought it was bizarre, but never asked what we discussed. His mom and dad both spoke with him today, but didn't bring up what they know yet.

Well, it is much more scary to someone who is hiding the truth. But it is cathartic for one who is trying to do everything to make up for the damage he has done.


I am so very disappointed to hear this. I was hoping they would support your marriage. Do they plan on telling him AT ALL? If so, when? If they won't do it, then you should tell him this weekend, starfish. The entire purpose of exposure will have been completely negated and lost if they won't discuss the affair with him.

The purpose of exposure is not to spread idle gossip and whisper behind his back, but to bring the affair out into the open to begin healing. Moss does not grow well in sunlight!

His mom told me yesterday that she was going to let his dad speak with him, because he is better with talking to their sons. My FIL mentioned that he needed some time to process everything. I told him on Wednesday evening and we have plans with his Mom for dinner tonight. His dad used to do mediation for the district, but I'm not sure when he is going to talk to him. I figured he would have done it by now...

Last night was a rough night after MC. Something came up in MC that really upset me. He told me that he would have liked to have gone to OW's step-dad's funeral years back, but said he didn't because we got into a fight about it. He remembers the name of the funeral home, location, etc., but there are lots of other things that he can't remember!!!! I told him that my dad passed away 3 years ago and he didn't come to my dad's funeral. He said that was because he lived out of state, never met him and someone needed to stay home and take care of the dogs! Really? Are you f*ing serious? It wasn't a good night....lots of yelling and crying, etc. I am having some guilt for feeling so out of control last night, but my anger got the best of me. I guess I've been holding in the anger. I was pointing my finger at WH and yelling at him. I just don't feel good about the way I reacted. My emotions definitely go the best of me.

This morning he told me that he is TRULY REMORSEFUL for what he has done. We have been talking lately about the difference between regret and remorse. I asked him if he was just saying that because he felt like it was what he was supposed to say. He said, no that according to the definition, it is how he feels. Then, he tells me that he is SO SORRY and can't stand to see me in so much pain and knows that it is his fault. He said he should have listened to me 3 years ago when I told him it wasn't a good idea for him to be talking to OW.

This is why the Harleys NEVER counsel couples in conflict together. It is BAD for the marriage. At a time when you should be focusing on rebuilding your lovebanks, you are eroding the very little you have left in counseling with these lovebusting sessions. You went to counseling and came away more angry and disgusted than when you went in. Do you realize how bad that is for your marriage?

It is real important that you start rebuilding the love in your marriage. Can you skip counseling for a few months until you have recovered your marriage?

Instead of going to counseling and lovebusting each other for an hour, can you do something productive instead? Like going out for a nice romantic dinner and a walk in the park afterwards?

THAT is the kind of activity it will take to rebuild the romantic love in your marriage. It takes 20+ hours of undivided attention to create romantic love in a marriage that has been damaged by an affair.

Here is what Harley says: here


And the key to creating romantic love is here: The Policy of Undivided Attention

This is why you were told this:





Think about it. The MC last night ended in AO (angry outburst) and hurt feelings. Both of you are now feeling bad. I don't see any good that came out of it. Where is the plan to restore the romantic love?

And your MC just sat there and let you BATTLE each other?
How WRONG is that?

Do you see what Melody described? Wouldn't it have been more productive to have a nice dinner (the cost of your MC session!)
and flirt with each other?

Right now you need to be focusing on meeting each others emotional needs IN A PLEASANT AND POSTIVE way! Your husband needs to know that he can be forgiven. That you are not going to dwell on this forever. Its absolutely your right to get your questions anwered -- but its not going to be the topic every night. He will start to dread his time with you instead of looking forward to it.

And you need to have some FUN. What do both of you enjoy doing?
What can you plan for this weekend? He might be thrilled to hear that he doesn't have to go back to MC....