Trickle truth is what they call it.

The idea is to get ALL of that out, once and for all, and then get on with recovery so that these types of things don't keep popping up setting one or both of you back. Your old marriage is dead.

20yrhistory,

Thank you thank you thank you.

In addition to everything folks are advising you on, have you considered journaling your thoughts?

Try doing things with her that are fun? Trying to reenergize your relationship with fun activities? These can serve several purposes. Creating new memories. Distracting you from your own mind. Filling EN�s.

It is too easy to sit around all day obsessing on things. Bad idea.

Yep!

Jeeeez, you're right...I just don't want to face anymore hurt...I've got to bite the bullet. I feel like I'm being helped, really helped. I know I'm facing truths right now cause ...jeez it's just being put to me in a way I can't deny it.

20yr,

I'm trying to be more fun, and do more fun stuff with her, I'm starting to see I'm in some obsessive, denial, inaction type behavior that's not helping. I've been going this alone for 10 months, and trying all sorts of failing methods. I've had no one to say here! Look at it! It is what it is! This is what you do! I feel like im glued to this mb forum right now because I sense I'll get what I know I need from the help of others here to help myself. For that I'm grateful.

Sitting here thinking of approaching wife about poly has my heart racing...I must be a puss.

I thought I was unique, once upon a time. My first user name was notsoyouneak, after I realized that no matter how I felt my sitch was different than all the others, it really wasn't. So unless your wife is really a man, or maybe if you're both from outer space, or sentient robots...something REALLY original, then what we're saying still applies, and still has the power to help you.

Slightly O/T, Mel was not letting any frustrations spill onto you, that's her style on all days ending in "y". After reading her for wow, seven years now, I know she can deal with 20 cranky posters before breakfast and never break a sweat. I just chalk it up to the Texas water.

Now to get to the nuts and bolts, a few of them, anyway. Fair or not, tired or not, for a while you're going to be leading this recovery. If you had come in during the A, and had to go through Plan A/Plan B, you would have the luxury of waiting to take WW back until she was farther along in the process, and ready to take the lead. Since she's already there, and the A is over, for now it's your job.

As you're reading here (very good - keep it up!), you will see the framework needed for a healthy M. That's the behavior you're going to model for WW. Show her how you want your M to look.

Likely, she won't be fully on board at first, and that's ok. Just as if you were in Plan A, you meet her emotional needs, and guide her into meeting as many of your EN's as possible, too. The UA time will be crucial to making this an enjoyable process.

WW needs to start learning what behaviors and boundaries you expect from her to in order for the M to continue and heal. Hopefully she will respond to your firmly stated resolution that you refuse to be part of a M where these protective boundaries are not fully observed at all times by both of you.

If attempts to negotiate verbally fail, the consequence isn't jump straight to a D, but instead telling her to move out and going to Plan B. Plan B is a multitasking tool that is good for so much more than just an active A. If one spouse is refusing to protect the M by persistently indulging in harmful behaviors of any sort, whether clinging to opposite-sex friendships, insistence on "privacy", balking at EP's, substance misuse, any type of abuse....ANYTHING that is damaging to the other spouse and tears at the foundation of M, should eventually result in a Plan B.

As shame-filled as your WW is, I'm optimistic that it wouldn't need to go that far. Shame is a good start, it's just a lousy place to stay stuck. As she grasps the plan that she needs to follow, and takes steps to restore her M and honor, that will bring about a change in her feelings, too.

She will find that, as she disciplines herself through the process of putting up healthy boundaries, and becoming someone that is worth being married to, she will also gain a victory over her past, because she no longer is allowing it to define her.

That's one of the main reasons that following this plan will be so important for her. It doesn't matter at this point whether she was physically abused, sexually molested, forced to participate in Satanic rituals or child pornography. Whatever the worst things are that have happened to her, doesn't change that the MOST IMPORTANT thing to her is who she becomes now. Dealing with that will make the past lose its power over her.

So please let your defenses down, relax, and just settle in. Everything you need is right here, and you have plenty of time to make it all happen.

Neak,

Okay, I will.

Reading and researching is good. Gluing yourself to this forum all day long...not so much.

ACTION is better! Get up, get moving. Do one thing right NOW that makes you feel better. Take a mental break from everything.

Make plans to take her out to dinner TONIGHT or do something fun. Get out and create new memories. Mabye start a new hobby together. Since we have 2 children, we started doing puzzels together every night after they go to bed. What can you do?

Positive action my friend. Action is going to turn the tide. You are not alone.

As one book I have read states "why do the same things that don't work? Try something different".

20,

You're right.

Look, some will advise a Poly. This is your choice. I chose not to. You are not a puss. You love your wife and don't want to cause more pain. Remember the rule of protection �never be the cause of your spouse�s unhappiness�.

I was able to get the entire truth without doing so. Each person is different.

You must decide what is best for you. No one can do that for you.
Has she been consistent when asking the same questions in different ways? Have you seen that her stories vary at all? Have you been able to verify timetables and her stories? This might help determine your confidence level that everything has been revealed or not.

You must have all the truth. SHE must reveal the entire truth for HER to heal. Does she realize this?

Each of us are able to get it a different way. Some with a Poly, some without. I was able to get the entire story only after she knew without question that I wasn�t going to judge her or criticize her and that I simply wanted to have the full picture like she did so I could make my decisions.

However, the belief that you should not get a poly just because she is a sweet person and wouldn�t lie to you again is not a good reason. My FWW lied right to my face even through recovery (although it was a FR at the time) because she didn�t want to lose me. You just don�t want to be naive. Verify, validate everything. Take nothing at face value just because she said so.

Isn�t the true test of �true love� when you can love them warts and all? Love them in spite of everything that has happened? If she really believes this from you, she may open up with more details (if there are any).

20:

I don't believe she's hiding anything. I just spoke to her. She instantly agreed to a poly and asked How much do you think itll cost?

Most on the forum have said they range $400-$500.

Good luck! Great sign that she jumped at the chance to prove her honesty to you.

It really is important to have the whole truth so that there are no more secrets in the marriage.

Remember...what you are working towards is an exceptional marriage - for BOTH of you. Secrets will not allow that to happen.

This is what is so great about the Marriage Builders program: neither spouse sacrifices so the other can be happy. It's win/win!

It's all about behavior modification...which I believe is the key to overcoming any kind of past...as others here have stated so eloquently.

Staying on here all day - again - not the greatest of ideas as it can just lead to being consumed. So glad this was pointed out.

You know, Jason, my H was much more on board with the program once we really got into it. I think at first he knew he needed to do everything he could to make things right. But, until he really saw the program for what it was, it was probably seen more as a punishment. You know, payment for what he'd done. When he saw how refreshing it was, he was totally on board! It wasn't about beating up the unfaithful spouse or making them feel more shame. It showed a clear path to both of us owning our things and allowing us to be happy! This could be the way it is for your wife too: that once she sees that it isn't about shaming her some more, a light will come on (hopefully) giving her hope that the future is bright.

I know I have felt at times that it sucks that I, as the faithful spouse, have had to lead recovery efforts at times... but I understand it better now. When I had to lead it's because H was still feeling shame and feeling like he was just going to have to pay more dues. After understanding it better, he has lead in his own ways through a lot of this, even sharing the concepts with co-workers and our sons!

But yes: educate yourself and put into practice the basics, right away. Get that UA time scheduled and use it for positive things!

Sunny,

I will.

Jason

I'm not a vet but I have been following your thread and just have one little addition to make.

The reason why you feel like your WW has not made the effort is partly because you don't have a way to measure any progress and she has been so depressed that she probably does not know where to start making amends, add to that the abusive childhood and i feel she might just not have a very clear understanding of how to make things better, by the sounds of what you wrote she is used to being the victim not the abuser. Unfortunately by having the A she has put herself into the abuser position and you will need to help her cope with that as opposed to helping her stay in victim mode ( ie the OM is the demon and she got taken advantage of because no matter how good the OM was at luring your WW she still had a choice not to fall for it).

I personally found it very helpful to print the EN's questionnaire and do it with my H ( you can find it on the site) It is laid out so perfectly that it brakes down things in manageable portions where you get to actually make a viable list of things that will need to change/happen for your needs to be met. If your WW does not meet your needs when they are that clearly laid out then you know the problem is that she is unwilling and you can make further decisions from there.

The next step is to learn about love busters, behaviours that either you or your WW do to each other that makes either of you resent, dislike and take away from the love you have for each other.

UA time is vital to create an maintain romantic love and others have commented on this already.

It will also be necessary for you to sit down with your WW and make changes and put in place Extraordinary precautions to affair proof your marriage. For example if your WW started her A with this man in a bar then one of the EPs should be that she should not go to bars without you ever again etc. Some EPs are not put in place as a direct consequence of actions that took place during or led to the A for example it is not good for the marriage to have opposite sex friendships.

There is alot of work for both of you to do but here is a good program that offers you support, advice and guidance to build a good marriage where you won't only be faithful to each other but respect and love each other more than you ever did before.

I hope you get the books soon but in the mean time you can start with the ENs and LB questionnaires at the very least.

Typical WW to claim they told everything. Then oh by the way there was a second OM.

Two OM points to serial cheater. Odds are that there are more OM.

So odds are a Poly is needed to get the truth out.

A DNA because time lines get hard to recall as time passes.

You deserve the truth thats why a poly and a DNA test is needed. Your WW has shown that there have been more then one OM, and her words are not to be trusted.

NB28,

Thank you for your words of encouragement. I printed out the EN questionaires yesterday, and my wife agreed to do them no prob. I believe you're right, she is used to being victim, she doesn't know how to proceed, but she desperately wants to make things right.

I'm encouraged to see that (amongst some definite mistakes) I did a lot of things right in the beginning of the affair, before I saw them on this sight. I demanded NC, complete transparency, complete disclosure. She gave up her phone, passwords, was willing and did our form of EP'S before we knew what they were.

Some mistakes I made...I told her I was going to have an affair in her face, she had to take it, and I set it up. Told her I had to "even up the score." She agreed to it (what choice did she have?) tearfully. I called it off, because I just couldn't go through with it.

I realize later that it would have hurt me badly, and compounded our already severe problems...and I didn't want anyone else, I loved her so much. I was a bear to her, though.

At the time, I was so raw I was going back and forth on deciding whether or not to leave, and at times I was mean as hell. I did temper myself, because even though I was hurting my instinct was still to protect my wife.

And we've definitely been spending way more UA time together these last couple days...and it seems to really be making a difference already.

I think my biggest problem as of late has been the "take the lead" approach. I was feeling like it was adding insult to injury. I was thinking, why should I have to do all the work when I was the one betrayed? I told her...If I applied your effort to this situation do you think we'd still be married today?

I see all I did was make her feel worse about herself. It's hard in all the pain to all of a sudden start being so positive and loving, but I know that's what it'll take.

The timeline for our unborn child is such...4 month's after both OM went to jail she became pregnant. At the time she was working, and I was staying home. I drove her to work everyday, picked her up, and had her check in by calling with the company phone so I could see it on Caller ID. I would also randomly call her on her work phone. I know for a fact it's mine.

For the last ten months of going through this...I have grilled her, and grilled her, and grilled her...there is nothing left for her to tell. It's all out there. I know I said I was "having a vibe" but it's because I've learn to listen to my feelings and CHECK IT OUT. Not blindly say to myself, "Oh, I trust her..."

I don't trust anymore-- I verify. She has no problem whatsoever taking a poly or a DNA, she isn't worried one bit.

Also, when I first posted in this forum...I was posting like a frantic, out-of-my-mind crybaby because I was having some sort of relapse breakdown or something. I believe it gave the impression that all of this was more recent. It's been going on 10 months, so I've had lots of time to deal with things...some the right way, but mostly wrong.

And after receiving some really good advice in here from very sweet and goodhearted people...I've been coming back to my senses. I think a big part of my problem is that I've been running from this and avoiding, but in my mind thinking, "Oh, yeah, I'm dealing with this...why isn't she dealing like me?"

I did a lot right, but then I stunted myself and us by my behaviors without realizing it, because I was convinced I was doing it all right and she was doing it all wrong.

I see how the vets in here are used to dealing with BS's who come in here completely clueless, and they need to get smacked around a bit to be woken up from their fogs of denial and extreme hurt. The vets are used to resistance from newly BS's, because I can see how when "in the fog" it seems crazy what the vets are suggesting you do, but out of the fog it is perfectly reasonable and obvious to everyone else.

It's interesting to see it from both sides. They definitely shake you up, and get you thinking-- which is what you AREN'T doing when you're in the thick of it...you're just feeling, reacting, and getting worked.

I see how lucky I am to have such a willing, remorseful, and loving wife after reading other people's horror stories in here.