Hi All:

I'm new here and have looked around a bit and read some. I stumbled upon MB while searching for some website or newsletter or article I could send to my husband to teach him how to help me. I will definitely get the Emotional Needs info to him and we can talk about each other's, which will be helpful. I watched the video about infidelity and will send my WH a link to that and ask him to watch it.

If you've gotten the impression that we are apart, we are, but only because he is traveling for his work. And that is where our story began. I found out exactly 6 months ago that my husband of 24 years was having an affair with a prostitute 18 years younger than he is. I can't get into the details, but I do know the details. She was the 8th prostitute he had been unfaithful with over the course of 11 months. The first 7 were on five separate nights during business trips to Asia--he spent one night with 3 prostitutes. The 8th was the only one not repulsed by him (she didn't sleep on the far edge of the bed, whereas the others had either done that or gotten him of and bolted--he's overweight and drinks too much, so smells of alcohol, but I am very attracted to him)and she suggested they exchange phone numbers and started texting him.

Long story short she was looking for an American boyfriend to support her financially and he was stupid enough to be oblivious to that fact and to think she actually loved him. He sent her thousands of dollars over the course of 5 1/2 months.

I know the details mostly because I found and hacked his secret email accounts and, because a lot of their texting had been on Yahoo Messenger and, unbeknownst to him, his settings online stored the conversations he had on his phone, I know quite clearly the nature of their long distance relationship. The sexual content was limited to him asking her what color bra she was wearing. The conversation was mostly "ILY My King" "ILY My Queen" "Promise we will fight for our love" "Have you heard the new Adelle song?" Drivel. But he did also VISIT her in the third world country in which she lives (they met when he hired her in Hong Kong, but it is complicated to get frequent visas, so he flew to her) twice, for a weekend once and a day on the next weekend. Also very hurtful, he communicated with her while he and I were on vacation, for a week in April '11, and for a week in September, during which tine he gave her a Skype video tour of our summer home! He also sent her pictures of the entire extended family including me!

So, we've been to a counselor many times since September. He went to Asia on a business trip in October for 3 weeks and, on the last night, because I was stupid enough to tell him she had tried to call him on his personal cell (which he had left home), he went to the bar where she plies her trade "to prove to himself that she really is a prostitute" (she had told him he was her first and she really wants to go to culinary school--yep! Gave her money for that! And a computer! (which "she couldn't get to work", or in other words: sold!)) She left him a message on his phone (which neither of us knew about until the therapist asked if she left a message when she called--H told me about it and I listened to it: "we can still be friends...blah blah blah". He has had no further contact with her--he has been very open about everything and I have all passwords and check still, although less than at first.

Most of the time I do okay by managing to keep my mind off of the affair, mostly by keeping busy. I do not work outside the home. Those of you who do have my frank admiration; I haven't in 24 years and it's not likely I ever will. (I had actually gotten a real estate agent license and embarked on that career about the time he took up with the longterm hooker, so because that makes me really insecure and for other reasons, forget that!) He works 12-16 hour days and travels internationally for 3 weeks at a time 4-6 times a year. (Yeah, I'm quite certain we'll both find we have unmet emotional needs!) We have two kids, 21 and 19, one graduated from college, the other is a sophomore. I've been sole parent, pretty much, and I take care of everything on the homefront, with the exception of a handful of bills that are not paid automatically that he pays. The "honey do" list is all mine.

Really, what brings me here is a need for support. I have told two online anonymous friends whose husbands also cheated on them and we no longer have contact--it was infrequent anyway. I've only told one real-life person and we really aren't in each other's lives much. I have only lived where I am for a year and a half and, funny, I'm having a hard time wanting to get out much and meet people. I know you all advocate exposure, but the point of that seems to be to pressure him to stop the affair and that's been over for six months...well, five, if you count the meeting at the bar (there was a hug and a good bye kiss). I am lonely, with no one to talk to about this. I am not interested in being told I didn't give him enough sex, blah, blah...I won't be telling them that in that particular department, while things had gotten less wonderful, they have always been pretty wonderful--still are. He is texting me at least twice a day, usually more, sweet nothings, but they help. And he has done a nice job of not ogling other women, which is a huge help--therapist did weigh in on that with both of us and must have coached him more specifically when they were alone. But the man just cannot seem to give me a decent compliment to save his life! (Or to save my life, actually!) He eats a strict diet and rarely gets a decent meal outside of our home, but I make him a "legal" dinner every weeknight; I have to ask him if he likes it--rarely does he offer even a "mmm...this is good." And he has 6 times since September told me some article of clothing is nice--would it kill him to tell me I look good? (1 of those times he said "Wow! You look great!" I had a flashy new top on with heels and a salon done updo and makeup. Is that really what it takes for such a simple validation???) I generally dress pretty nicely and wear coordinating bras and panties and I do my hair and makeup daily...I could lose a few pounds, but at 5' 10" no one would call me fat in my size 12...but I am losing. When he left today for three weeks, I would have been so happy to hear, "I love you more than anything in the world" or "I'll be far away but my heart is always with you" or just something more than what seems like a perfunctory "I love you" "I'll miss you". I guess admiration is high on my list of emotional needs. He really hasn't ever mustered much of an apology either. He's said I'm sorry many many times while holding me as I cry, which is fine, but I so long for an impassioned expression of remorse. I have actually manufactured a story of my own as a for instance telling him if it had been me who destroyed our formerly beautiful marriage (or so I thought--and he says he did too!) I would tell him, "I'm so sorry I hurt you like I did. I am so ashamed and I don't know how I could do that to you. I don't know what I was thinking....etc." I've felt his pain early on in the process but he's wants to move on and doesn't want to go back and think about that stuff. He can just put it in a little box and stride away.

I'm drained. Thanks in advance to anyone whose read all this! Phew! Thoughts anyone?

D, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that have brought you here.

You mentioned that your husband had his affairs while traveling. This is not surprising because traveling jobs are an invitation to affairs. I am assuming he has, therefore, stopped all traveling? That is the only chance you have to save this marriage.

Thread with Dr Harley's views on traveling jobs. http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=165049&Number=2563215#Post2563215

Additionally, I would get the book Surviving an Affair and follow the plan outlined there.

Thanks for the welcome. It would be very nice if my husband could simply stop traveling; Let's say he's a pilot (he's not, but travel is just as integral to his job). He can't stop traveling, at least not anytime soon. He is passively looking for another job (his job is too all-consuming right now to look actively) and while it may be possible to find one that doesn't include travel, it is unlikely as his expertise is in international business. There have been significant changes to his travel however. He no longer travels with the hedonistic whoremonger who introduced him to the whoring life (by example and by buying him a hooker!) because that odious man was fired and he will not be centered in Hong Kong anymore, although he will go there some. (Sigh!) He is traveling with a group of good men who he and I both feel will not "lead him" into temptation and will support him when he politely declines proposed visits proffered by Asian business associates to "hostess clubs" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_and_hostess_clubs.

If he had an A once he is capable of it again. Do NOT trust his p!ss poor boundaries when they have already failed once.

If he wants to deceive these good men he will do it.

Sounds like the perfect time to travel for you! You need to accompany him on these business trips. What a great opportunity to see the world and rebuild your marriage. If he cannot change his career yet, you must make the necessary changes so you can spend 15-20 hours with him every week.

Unfortunately, this has no hope unless he stops traveling. Traveling led to his affairs so unless that changes, your marriage will never change. You can't recover a marriage this way. So that is where I would start. Make it one of your conditions that he find a job where he is home every night if you want to save your marriage.

You say he cant stop travelling, but the truth is he cant travel at all if he wants to be married. Or indeed to be a decent person.

He WILL cheat again. The alcoholic cant work in the bar. Your husband has an addiction.

He is 'passively' looking for another job? Does that mean not at all? He should quit today and sweep mud in the streets before he risks another affair and abandons you to another trip which consumes you with doubt and fear for the duration. No wonder you are in pain. And with no support too!

Why aren't you telling everyone? Read the Exposure link in MelodyLane's signature. Ask for everyone's support in getting your H to abandon his affair-prone lifestyle and to get home to work on the marriage.

Do you understand Plan A?

Oh nevermind. Thanks.

You are very welcome. I am concerned about your pain. Many betrayed wives become seriously ill in your situation. There have been nervous breakdowns. It's common. Please see a doctor if need be and return here for support if you find yourself unable to cope.

Remember that you dont have to make yourself ill to be married. The plans here are effective and they do work. Many WHs become motivated purely by the first stage - exposure.

The fact that you think he is unlikely to listen to you, is pretty normal around here. The plans are designed to tackle that.

Desperate, two things have to happen to make it possible for your marriage to recover.

1. Affair proof your marriage. That can only be done if your husband changes the environment that led to his affairs: traveling.

2. create a romantic integrated marriage that fills the void of the affairs for him and the pain for you. That can only be done if you are together every day, spending the night every night and meeting each others emotional needs on a daily basis.

There is no other way to save a marriage. As you can see, being apart is not working for you.

You are both going to commit to making dramatic changes in your marriage if you want it to change. You can't keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result.

Red Flag!

"he's overweight and drinks too much, so smells of alcohol, but I am very attracted to him"

Along with the other issues, this must be addressed as well.

You can't recover your marriage while he is drinking what you see as "too much".

@Indiegirl: Yes, I believe I do understand Plan A. Dr. Harley states: "But what can a betrayed spouse do when the unfaithful spouse refuses to totally separate from the lover? That's where plan A and plan B come to the rescue." Since my husband has separated, I do not believe Plan A or Plan B apply.

You state that my husband "WILL cheat again." While it may be highly probable, there is no guarantee he will cheat again; I prefer to think he won't. I won't let my guard down though...ever.

Personally, I don't believe someone who cheated is necessarily not a "decent person"; he has this failing, and it's a biggie, and it has hurt me possibly beyond repair, but he IS a decent person. He is much more than his infidelity.

"Passively looking" means he often gets calls from executive recruiters seeking to explore his fit for their job searches; he talks to them, has interviews, and explores the possibilities. He is open to new opportunities, especially if it takes us closer to family and/or reduces/eliminates overnight travel.

I don't know what gave you the idea he is unlikely to listen to me; I seldom have his undivided attention and often have to repeat myself, but he does listen to me.

I am concerned about my mental health--that's what got me looking online for help. I told him this morning that I was sending him some MB stuff and I'd like him to read it and discuss it with me and told him I think it is important and will help my recovery and our marriage. I sent him the Emotional Needs Questionnaire, the Policy of Radical Honesty, the Policy of Joint Agreement and a link to the Surviving Infidelity part of the MB website. I told him I'd like him to do the survey and we (I) can fill out a printed version here at home while we discuss via Skype.

@Calisun: You are right! I do need to travel with him. I have done that before and can do it again. There are impediments (company frowns upon it; visa's may be tricky; it's expensive) but it may be the answer; fretting at home stinks! He actually suggested it for his October trip, but was clearly worried I'd be found out, and I had a trip to visit our daughter planned already and I decided to do that. I kind of wish I had gone, but I do think he was able to close the book on the OW because he saw with his own eyes that she was indeed a hooker and he was her John or Mark, not her knight in shining armor or her king. We probably DO actually spend 15-20 hours together, but a lot of it could definitely be more "quality" time. Even when he travels he has always (for 20+ years) been very good about calling/skyping with me daily (except for the two weekends he spent with OW). We talked for a half hour today upon his arrival. Also, I have a detailed itinerary (he is booked solid every day from 8am until at least 10pm, except on weekends and he is with our good friend co-worker (wife is my good friend) until five days before his return, so he's without that friend for one Sunday. I'm still worried, especially for that Sunday, but maybe we can Skype all day!!!

@Melodylane: see my other responses.

It's hard, but I'm okay today. Thanks again everyone.

@CanItGetBetter - Yes! It must change, and he's trying, but he has not been successful enough, and he knows that. The therapist gave him some kind of quiz about the alcohol and basically told him he doesn't have to quit entirely but he has to cut back. He has promised not to go to a bar alone and promised not to get drunk. For now that will have to do. The fact that collecting wine (like, 1000+ bottles) is basically his only hobby does not help...at all.

Unfortunately, skyping is no replacement for living together. This is why Dr Harley makes it clear that in order to recover your marriage, you can't spend the night apart.

So if you want to recover your marriage, that is where I would start. And indiegirl is right about him likely have affairs in the future. Once a cheater, always a cheater applies to those who don't change their lifestyles to PREVENT repeat affairs.

Since nothing has changed here, then nothing will change. It is sort of like this: when you get by a car playing chicken, you have to get out of the road or you will get hit again. You WILL get hit again unless your husband dramatically changes his lifestyle.

Filling out questionaires is a distraction from recovering your marriage. That is like giving the falling down drunk a questionaire and ignoring the fact that he is still in the bar. You can't ignore the conditions that led to his affair and expect to ever recover this marriage.

Is he an alcoholic?

You have misunderstood the plans. If you read on, you will see the plans apply until the WS agrees to the ESSENTIAL and non negotiable conditions for recovery. Since you have none your pain is not being healed and your husbands affair addiction is not being treated.



We have many former wayward spouses on this forum who have healed their marriages and put EPs in place to protect themselves and heal their spouses. They help countless others volunteering here. But your husband is still in the grip of his addiction and the decent person he once was will have to die to feed the addict. Without action.



You probably prefered to think so before it happened the first time. Your shock and unhealed pain are creating a fog of denial to sheild yourself with. It WILL happen again and it will hurt worse next time. Wouldn't you prefer safety to this game of 'play chicken with my heart'?



Because you aren't asking to be made safe. If he will listen,(as in DO what you ask) what's stopping you? You can start having a great marriage today!



We aren't posting personal opinions, DtH. We are bound to post only Dr Hs advice under the terms of service.Nor would we want it any other way.

What you propose is opposite to evrything he has found effective in healing countless affair torn relationships.

He won't let a BS take back a WS until they agree to never spend one night apart.

In private practice he wouldn't accept couples who refused to be with other for the majority of their free time.

He found it was IMPOSSIBLE to be in love while apart.

Ummm...I think y'all missed this part: "I do need to travel with him. I have done that before and can do it again."

Did I mention that I found this website yesterday???

We were all new once, asking for help and given the same MB advice, being new is fine. If you weren't new, we wouldn't advise you at all. We'd expect you to know your stuff as there are many newbies in pain needing our limited time. My thread shows me asking for help understanding MB on P1 when I was new. I got advice, I got yelled at too sometimes. I don't get your point?



Does that mean you ARE going to do it?

So you will be traveling with him until he finds a new job? I didn't miss that part at all. I did see this part, which caused me great concern:


Are you planning on joining him for this trip?