WD, your husband can change, but I don't see him doing anything to effect that change. Going off to see his OW does not demonstrate someone who is serious about changing. He is supposedly wanting to save his marriage and he is off for the weekend? In the same town with his OW? FOR REAL? A person who is serious about making changes.........makes changes. He is not doing anything except talking about it.

He doesn't need to go to counseling to make changes. He needs to make changes. NOW.

Is there anything you see here that would make you think - other than the empty words of a professional liar - that he is serious?

Nothing yet, other than words.

My friend, I am not trying to be a wet blanket, but it is important to focus on his ACTIONS, not his words. His words don't match his actions. His words are meaningless. He has been a liar for a very, very long time and is very good at it.

Read never take the word of a wayward

I will look this week for some threads about MBers who had serial cheater spouses and turned them around.

I think you should also (re)consider Melody's suggestion to talk to one of the Harleys. They have seen it all, from many angles. It'll be worth a lot more than the counseling you're suggesting.

Your question is, who is he really? Can I ever trust him again?

To find out, I suggest you talk to everyone who knows him, especially his exes. Come back here and work out some poly questions. I think it's $300 for 6 questions from what I read recently (the thread of Bricks, I believe).

I think that's also a side benefit of exposure - things fall out of the woodwork that make you see how others actually see the WS, and it's often surprising and very illuminating.

You want to know if he is serious? Schedule the poly yourself for the day after he comes home and make one of the questions "did you have any contact of any kind with OW? Bet he freaks.

Winn, have a look at this clip that Pepperband and Melody have posted recently.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2515783#Post2515783

Watch in particular around the 27 - 30 minute mark. Therein Dr. Harley says that his method works even with couples where he himself thinks the BS has every reason to walk away. He gives all the pointers you need.

What I got from this (translating it to your situation) is that maybe you are assuming too much responsibility for saving the marriage. Your H should be bending over backwards, he should be running around frantically to convince you that he wants you, and only you. He should be doing the work. He should be working a LOT harder. He needs to prove himself, and it's going to be a marathon.

Dr. Harley says that trust can be restored, even in the most unlikely of situations. But you have to follow the MB path very closely.

Get your husband to contact the Harleys. Let him do the legwork. Let him convince YOU that he's worthy.

Excellent idea.Present it along with your conditions for an MB recovery, I.e. No nights apart etc,and plan b him on refusal of your terms.

Just the fact that he left town and went to the OW's town tells me he is not serious about doing the hard work to recover his marriage. I wouldn't pay $300 for a polygraph to even find out. I would tell him to take a hike.

In order for a serial cheater to recover, he has to implement - IMMEDIATELY, NOT NEXT LEAP YEAR AFTER FLAPPING HIS LIPS TO SOME COUNSELOR - IMMEDIATELY - extraordinary precautions to protect you, WD. He has done: NOTHING.

You started this thread on 15 January. In the three weeks since then, has he DONE anything to help you heal?

NO!

How many three-week periods of your life do you want to throw away on this loser?

I know how much you're hurting right now winn, but I have to concur with the others. At this point (with what you know) I would concentrate on you. You don't need this.

You deserve better.

Winn, Estrela's thread is similar to yours.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2586236&page=1

Her WH had at least 2 affairs in his 1st marriage, then a 3 y affair starting 2 years after he and Estrela married, and then recently another affair was discovered. She showed many feelings like you do - disbelief, sadness, not really any anger. Her H is a real smoothie. Even though she was checking constantly on him after the first affair, it took a lot digging to get evidence. He denied denied denied. She did everything right. Now she is in plan B. She and WH have 2 kids, I think that this played a role in her decision to try again.

Sadly, can't find any cases of successful reconciliation after serial cheating. There's SusieQ - her H had several affairs in 2007, she used MB and reconciled but discovered another affair in 2011. They are now divorcing.

However, there is also sexymamabear, whose husband had a very long relationship with the same OW, multiple discoveries and false recoveries. They are reconciled and her FWH sexypapabear posts on the forum now too. But they have lots of children...

Ahh, here's the one I was looking for

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2546160&page=6

Look up Nit2winher - he was a major serial chear, his wife is Lgtex.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...s=nit2winher&Search=true#Post2467156

Nit2winher's list of extraordinary precautions are

List of EP's

I shall not
1. Ride in a vehicle alone w any woman
2. have meals alone w any woman
3. discuss personal matters w women
4. hug any other than my mother and wife
5. have emails to women (only work related)
6. txt women (if necessary I tell my wife)
7. If I feel a woman is flirting I make it clear I'm not interested and let my wife know immedietely
8. only email women if absolutely necessary (non work related) and I CC my wife
9. if any former OW attempt to contact me I ignore it and inform my wife immedietely.
10. no drinking while traveling on business.
11. No going to drinking establishments, (i.e. bars/cafes/pubs) w/out my wife. (This is where a lot of waywardness started)

recently added
1. no internet use at work that is not work related
2. I do not view anything TV,movies,internet, magazines, books that my wife would not agree with
3. Nightly accountability questions about events of the day that we ask each other. Blatant, brutal, open, and honest questions that eliminate any desire or attempt to be deceptive.

You can search my thread. First post in Feb last year. In recovery with my h.

Thank you all! Will do the reading.

VERY interesting reading about serial cheaters....I am pondering...he is moving out and I will have plenty of time to think then. Maybe I'm a slow mover....

What's your plan, Winn? Is he frantic yet, desperate to do whatever it takes to get you back, pleading to be given another chance, coming up with Extraordinary Precautions?

Me again. An update...WH moved out. He lives about 5 miles from me, and is still working in the area. I feel like there is no plan at all....except he says he is working on himself. He is attending a new church, is playing in the orchestra, is attending a special men's bible class, and is supposed to have started, or soon will be starting individual counseling. I gave him some hope when I agreed to go to 2 couple counseling sessions in February. The counselor was good...he talked about all of the Extraordinary Precautions and other things I would require if we were to reconcile. He said that it would take a lot since when I married WH I did not really know him. He had set himself up as someone that he knew I would want in my life. The counselor asked WH why he didn't tell me about certain things in his life previous to our marriage, such as living with the 2 women since his last marriage. WH said that he knew I probably wouldn't have married him if I had known that about him. So....
We text and occasionally talk. I think he is in deep, deep depression. I think he feels hopeless. He does not talk at all about our relationship because I think he knows....I am going to make a final decision this summer when school is out. For now, I am content here in my little house alone. I am spending time with friends and family that live nearby. Staying busy with work and church activities. I do have some depression, at times it is worse than others, but right now it is manageable. So that is what is going on with me. I see that the infidelity board has been very busy....