So the dream job that lost in despair so desperately wanted has finally come. It has been a rocky few months, but he made the decision to do it . . . with or without me. So now for me it is decision time. As a brief background, this "dream job" consists of quite a bit of travel anywhere from 1 or 2 days a week to 4 days a week. I got to meet up with him on his first trip. He wined and dined me, sent me for a spa etc. I can honestly say it was nice, but not the lifestyle I want. Many fruitless arguments leading up to his big decision. One of his comments was yes you will be busy with the kids if I take this job, but you will be busy anyhow if we are not together. So what I want to know is am I being fair by not supporting this new lifestyle? I have told him after our short trip, that this is not for me. Not just him being away, but we are simple people, just looking for simple things. He now enjoys the fine dining, the allure of travel, talking about "needing" to sit in first class, they dont take cabs they take limos etc. That just isnt me and I cant see it ever being me. I am fighting to stay in love with him, but I am slowing losing that fight.

tic, when we divorced, my ex stopped traveling, because to him "it wasn't worth it without a family to come home to." Be careful what you wish for, right? What would make him enthusiastic about taking this back to the drawing board?

At this point, absolutely nothing. This is his dream, his apparent life long one. Who knew? I feel that i have to compete with it, I feel that he has chosen it over me (which he has but unequivocally denies). I suppose until I get rid of my resentment, there will really be no hope. I create an argument with him (I know huge DJ) just to get some, any attention. He refuses to continue on with the MB course, which I can see why. He cant possibly meet my needs, and frankly I have not been doing a bang up job meeting his. Not sure how to stop this slippery slope of fighting myself to stay in love with him. I do believe it is me falling out of love with him, possibly him falling out of love with me, but that is only based on his actions as of late. How do I keep the love for him and get rid of this resentment? Is it something I can do myself. Should I just "suck it up" and be happy with what I get??

2 weeks of stellar plan A, then Plan B his selfish azz.

Sucking it up is your old pattern. Stop it. Stop arguing. How about you write up a plan B type letter (and leave out the affair-with-job thing, that's over dramatic and easy to dismiss) and start planning? Don't give him the letter, post it here.

Meanwhile, you need at least two weeks of sweet, loving behavior without any arguments!

So I am actually going to have to implement Plan A for the next 3 weeks. In the next 14 days he is gone 6 days and teaching a course on the 7th; however we have 3 uninterrupted weeks (one of them being in Mexico) after his next trip. One week after mexico, if needed will plan for plan B, which happens to coincide with 2 weeks (home on weekends) of travel.

I couldn't find a whole lot on the website for Plan A/B, without the affair being the driving force. Now that he has taken the job, that part wont change, but how he deals with being away, being home etc will need to. Somehow I need to get over the resentment of not being included in the decision making process of whether to take the job or not, rather than being forced to agree to it. I don't think he will ever commit to following the POJA, as he has said "it just doesn't work" "it just doesn't make sense".

A few weeks ago, I got back on the horse and pulled the course out again, reviewing what he needed, reviewing what I wanted. I went over this with him, and his response was, until I started meeting his #1 need (SF) then there wasn't much for him to consider. We had the long drawn out conversation about me not feeling connected and that it was really hard to fulfill that need for him. The conclusion was I was to "fake" it, have sex, do what I need to do to fulfill him, and eventually I would learn not only to like it but love it. Then and only then would he consider looking at "parts" of the course again.I am not so good at faking it, but clearly am going to have to try! BTW I did try when we were away last week, did something way way out of my comfort zone (I had to blindfold him - because that was the only way I was comfortable). I thought maybe he appreciated it, enjoyed it, but if he did, there was nothing to let me know "wow that was great". i will post my plan b separatly, please feel free to critique it and help me out. This Plan B is a scary thing for me, but like DH said one way or the other I will be alone (because of travel or because we separate). So this might put the rules of being alone in my court.

PLAN B


So DH, I love you so much, but am finding myself falling out of love with you a a considerable speed.
I would like you to make other living arrangements for when you return from your next trip. Until you are ready to discuss with me,a plan of action to deal with our marriage recovery, there will be no contact of any kind, email, facebook, phone text etc, with the exception of setting aside time for you to see and do stuff with the kids when you are in town. When you have a plan in mind as to how we can continue, how we can spend quality time together (minimum 15 hours), how I can meet your needs, how you anticipate meeting mine, I would then be open to discussing and sharing with you some of my own ideas.

Hi CWMI

I have read and read the only stuff on plan a and b that I could find. I am simply not getting it. Please clarify. I think for the next 2 or 3 weeks I am to lavish him with love and meeting his needs, no matter what. Even if I am feeling disjointed, slighted etc, I am to show him that my intent is to love him and meet his needs. So then what happens? After week 3 i drop this note (Plan B) in his suit case, and hope he comes back to talk some day? I am clearly missing something here, because I am sure Dr H would not prescribe that.

I was really hoping someone else would join in this conversation besides ned.

It really depends on how you see the rest of your life. Your H has engaged in IB, you have engaged in LBs, and I have my personal experience to recommend a MB plan to deal with that and make life enjoyable for both of you.

Overnights away from home are something I never wanted in my life, from me or my husband(s), I knew that when I was 13 or so. It was much harder to enforce with my current husband because it wasn't an issue until we had kids and I became dependent. I begged, pleaded, got mad, got crazy stoopid, begged some more, but CALM got me where I am today, with a H who never travels.

Because I told everyone, calmly. Many people will say that a woman is controlling to refuse to remain married to a traveling man, but many will tell him wth are you doing? See, I had this as a boundary from the get-go; it was breached many times, and talking to family, co-workers, bosses about how this was destroying our family cold-dead stopped it.

I was willing to walk away, and I set things in place to. I did not plan B. My H humored me through coaching with Steve Harley, and got MAD when he was offered a new job...you can read my thread Duped to read how it has gone since then. We have ups and downs, but one thing we don't have and never will again is overnight travel.

I had the benefit of knowing he'd been educated by Steve. I suggest you skip spas and limos and put some money there. Or file D, unless you want your IB H to continue this behavior.

CALM. I swear, a man used to a banshee is stunned by a calm, controlled woman. Plan A. Love you, but love me, too, and willing to fight for US. Totally puts the ball in his court, but if you tell his 'teammates' what is going on, you will find more on your side than you expect. Nobody wants to work beside someone who screws over their family. But like I said, this is how I felt about travelling men from way before my H, and told him so when we got serious. Before marriage, before babies.

I got total words on this site years ago about talking to my H's coworkers and bosses...I am a fan now of doing so. If he wants his reputation as a 'family man' protected at work, he needs to have a rep worth it at home.

Why I recommend plan a and b for you is because your H knows you as a banshee who does not meet his needs. You want to save your marriage. So you need to show him you can and will and love to do that. B is because he cannot travel if you are to have a loving, protective marriage.

If traveling is unacceptable, don't accept it. Easy! You are already hating him, why prolong the agony?

lol cwmi what am I chopped liver Anyway we can help tic find a plan that works for her until the reinforcements come in.

tic I don't think the job is the problem, it's a symptom, of his life being about him. Please reread about Plan A and B for non-infidelity situations, http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html, and in the Newsletters section it goes into more detail too. It's negotiation to get your needs met while displaying a willingness to meet his needs. In a way that you're enthusiastic about, nothing like "no matter what". How creepy would that be! You're working on a new marriage, one where you both are kind and loving to each other and yourselves. Not suffering through gritted teeth. Like cwmi says, without love busting.

I mean this in a nice way, I really didn't care for the Plan B letter. It sounds at the same time breezy and out of left field. Do you want some examples?

Is Plan B something you want to go to in a few weeks? What do you think about calling the radio show and talking through your options?

Thanks you two for checking back in. I am truly at a loss here.

What struck me the most when I read your earlier post about plan a/b was that "I" with a capital and bolded "I" get to decide what I want my life to look like.

When the topic of this dream job first came up - we had problems, and you guys helped us out. The entire thread tells him not to do it, it spells disaster. So his answer was to drop MB completely (except for reminding me about his #1 need) and try and convince me this would be a good thing. It started out with this could be a together job. I would go with him when I could, help him set up his conferences, do the paperwork, leg work etc. As the kids get older, this would become more of the norm and I would go with him more often than not. That was the first carrot. I was excited about working with him this was going to be our retirement job.

Then the next carrot (and this one was on steroids) was when we talked about money. I had told him that the increase needed to be considerable as there is a monetary value to him being away all of the time. He had said I wouldn't have to work anymore etc etc. The number was 50% more than what he was making. The reality is he nets $700 more a month and is away at least half of it. Not worth $700 in my mind, nor will that give us the ability for me to go with him very often. Oh yeah, the part about me working with him that was never reality either.

So I have finally figured some of this out, going through old threads, the one where he got caught pretending to be someone else in order to educate me in the ways of the world, the one were he was on a business trip, wanted to stay an extra day to meet up with his buddies, but was afraid I would say no, so lied to me and told me the wrong dates of the conference, got caught when I called the hotel and the conference was over and he had checked out. Now add in the misinformation about this job, and how he again is trying to persuade me. Plain and simple I don't trust him to tell me the truth. He doesn't trust me to allow him his freedoms and work through the POJA.

So back to what I want. I want to be happy. I want a husband who loves me, is concerned about me and cares about me - openly. I want to be able to trust him, and get past the past. I don't know if I can have that with his travel. I do know he will not give this job up, and forcing him to will also be disastrous, because that he will resent me for forever, and there is no recovery for that one.

CMWI, we tried the Dr Steve thing, and frankly that in both of our opinions was not a good thing. I don't know whether we caught him at a bad time or what, but things were much worse afterwards than ever before. Mostly because Dr Steve left things hanging and never got back to us. I dont think either of us would spend our money on that. I agree with the drop the spas and limos, if I could go with him and spend time with him, not fine dining not spa days, but actual time, that would go a long long way. I guarantee you if we can come to peaceful times prior to leaving for Mexico, that will be a fantastic week, because I will be with him. I know I am preaching to the converted, I am looking for the one sentence that will explain this to DH. I just want him!!

@ NED

The link takes me to the one I already read, and was confused by. I didn't like my letter either, but really don't know how to do it, whether I am supposed to leave the door open, or close it and hope he has the key?

Maybe these Newsletters will help.

When to call it Quits Part 1

When to call it Quits Part 2

When to Call it Quits Part 3

We Have a Problem



Personally...it sounds to me like your husband is already off in La-La wayward thinking land with this job and you're not going to be particularly successful quickly getting him to give up this "dream" job where he gets to be a big shot very easily. He's surrounded by people in the same culture of entitlement and extracting anyone from that culture is difficult. Being the "big shot" is intoxicating.

Your situation is unique enough that perhaps Dr. Harley and Joyce would take an interest in having you on their radio show and you'll get some answers. He may strongly suggest more than the one month of "Plan A" that is typically suggested to women enduring continuing infidelity. Your situation isn't THAT unbearable (I'm not degrading your "feelings" either just proposing it's not as bad as infidelity...YET) and another job without travel (were he actively pursuing such) may take some time to obtain.

Anyway...good luck. CWMI is actually really experienced with your type of situation and she was tough enough to get her husband to switch jobs AND stay married and NED is one of the most genuinely nice women we have posting here at MB....so you've got a good mix helping you already.

Mr. Wondering

I appreciate both of you NED. Its tough, but I agree some have it way worse. At this point there is no infidelity, but the opportunity for it to happen, and frankly the chances for it to happen to either of us becomes drastically increased, as his travel does. If I am not filling his needs, his time etc, who is? Likewise, if I am feeling abandoned, left out, etc who is around to fill my needs. I am in NO way saying I am out there looking for my needs to be met, but I will be going out with friends and not DH more frequently, as he isnt here to go out with. I will protect myself from going there, but is it wrong to be afraid of the potential for both of us?

I would like to hear your experience with Steve. Not you H's, just yours.

I think I know your H's, and my H refused to speak to him anymore until I was dialing. Steve is great with getting through these high-minded guys. And guys like your H hate it when someone speaks to their wife without their input on the sitch. Anonymous boards like this are one thing; a charge on the credit card for marriage coaching are another, provable, thing.

I didn't poja coaching. I am probabaly not a great MB poja example. I fought like hell, went through hell, smiled in the face of adversity (omg, read my '08 and '09 threads!) and I won for my my family. Ned quit, fwiw, and divorced.

Thanks for the nod, Mr.W. Doughnut?

DITTO! They are two of the BEST.

My experience with Steve started out okay. He worked with me on the sexual aversion, or not aversion scenario. I was on the path to being comfortable. He told us to call him, whenever we got stumped on an exercise, and rather than have a heated discussion about it, to call him. We called and emailed him on 2 or 3 occasions, never a return phone call or email. We would finally discuss it at our next session with Steve. Then on to the next assignment. The last straw was the last assignment. We were to each determine our own 3 top needs, and describe in detail what that looked like. I thought I was told by Steve that our assignment was to share and discuss with DH before our next session, DH didn't understand the assignment, had questions and would not discuss the assignment until after he clarified with Steve, so that we didn't end up hurting each other. After several phone calls, several emails, from both of us, one of my last ones is Please Steve I really need your help, this exercise you gave us has had us fighting (and badly by this point) for more than a week. No return anything.

So to answer your question, my experience wasn't very good either, not because DH and I wouldn't do the assignments, but the promised "I will be there to guide you", never actually was there.

Ah, see, we had scheduled appointments and didn't expect Steve to act like our Mommas. We had weekly scheduled appointments, and at least one of us was adult enough to take notes and hold our tongues until scheduled counsel.

I think that may be your biggest problem, tic...holding your tongue until cooler heads can wag it.

Chill. If you need incentive for that...it will flip your H out. K?

We had scheduled appointments as well. the problem with the one assignment was it was quite controversial. We both had taken notes, as Steve always talked to us about the upcoming assignment separately. Anyhow, it is neither here nor there, the assignment never got done, we followed up with Steve, and he never got back to us.
Yes I need to chill!!! Tough though. Its tough when DH is away, then is going away again, and makes no time for me when he is here. Really tough to not get upset, to not let that tongue wag, if you know what I mean. We had an opportunity to spend the night and tomorrow together. I had stuff to do with the kids, but let him know I could arrange rides etc. His answer was come if you want, it doesn't matter to him. The answer I was hoping for (which I told him) was yes I would like you to come. His response is well I am not going to jump up and down and spit wooden nickles for you to come. Pretty tough to swallow, and pretty tough to be engaged with Plan A! I think until I accept this job of his as a good thing, and to use his words jump up and down and spit wooden nickles about it, he is not going to want to spend anymore time with me than he has too.

My H said the same thing, tic. Be happy and supportive of the job I already told him I didn't want him to take, or tough cookies. I didn't listen, and neither should you. You know this is hurting your marriage, why would you try to be happy about that?

I don't care how tough it is to chill. Easier than divorce. Tell him what you want, quit playing games with him. I can tell you, he won't want to spend time with you until you actually spend time together NOT talking about how bad your marriage is!

Good advice, and it seems to have worked out for you. How big of an IB'er was your hubby?? How do I tell him what I want, and not talk about how bad the marriage is? Anything I say about the job (even if it to ask a simple what are your new pay days) is taken as complete abuse of his job. I don't see it, and maybe because I am blind to it, but that particular question was meant to be neither positive or negative. Do I give him the same ultimatum he has given me? Include me in the job or give up the job, or give up me? Unfortunately I think I know the answer already, without ever asking, so maybe that is my answer?