So the dream job that lost in despair so desperately wanted has finally come. It has been a rocky few months, but he made the decision to do it . . . with or without me. So now for me it is decision time. As a brief background, this "dream job" consists of quite a bit of travel anywhere from 1 or 2 days a week to 4 days a week. I got to meet up with him on his first trip. He wined and dined me, sent me for a spa etc. I can honestly say it was nice, but not the lifestyle I want. Many fruitless arguments leading up to his big decision. One of his comments was yes you will be busy with the kids if I take this job, but you will be busy anyhow if we are not together. So what I want to know is am I being fair by not supporting this new lifestyle? I have told him after our short trip, that this is not for me. Not just him being away, but we are simple people, just looking for simple things. He now enjoys the fine dining, the allure of travel, talking about "needing" to sit in first class, they dont take cabs they take limos etc. That just isnt me and I cant see it ever being me. I am fighting to stay in love with him, but I am slowing losing that fight.

tic, when we divorced, my ex stopped traveling, because to him "it wasn't worth it without a family to come home to." Be careful what you wish for, right? What would make him enthusiastic about taking this back to the drawing board?

At this point, absolutely nothing. This is his dream, his apparent life long one. Who knew? I feel that i have to compete with it, I feel that he has chosen it over me (which he has but unequivocally denies). I suppose until I get rid of my resentment, there will really be no hope. I create an argument with him (I know huge DJ) just to get some, any attention. He refuses to continue on with the MB course, which I can see why. He cant possibly meet my needs, and frankly I have not been doing a bang up job meeting his. Not sure how to stop this slippery slope of fighting myself to stay in love with him. I do believe it is me falling out of love with him, possibly him falling out of love with me, but that is only based on his actions as of late. How do I keep the love for him and get rid of this resentment? Is it something I can do myself. Should I just "suck it up" and be happy with what I get??

2 weeks of stellar plan A, then Plan B his selfish azz.

Sucking it up is your old pattern. Stop it. Stop arguing. How about you write up a plan B type letter (and leave out the affair-with-job thing, that's over dramatic and easy to dismiss) and start planning? Don't give him the letter, post it here.

Meanwhile, you need at least two weeks of sweet, loving behavior without any arguments!

So I am actually going to have to implement Plan A for the next 3 weeks. In the next 14 days he is gone 6 days and teaching a course on the 7th; however we have 3 uninterrupted weeks (one of them being in Mexico) after his next trip. One week after mexico, if needed will plan for plan B, which happens to coincide with 2 weeks (home on weekends) of travel.

I couldn't find a whole lot on the website for Plan A/B, without the affair being the driving force. Now that he has taken the job, that part wont change, but how he deals with being away, being home etc will need to. Somehow I need to get over the resentment of not being included in the decision making process of whether to take the job or not, rather than being forced to agree to it. I don't think he will ever commit to following the POJA, as he has said "it just doesn't work" "it just doesn't make sense".

A few weeks ago, I got back on the horse and pulled the course out again, reviewing what he needed, reviewing what I wanted. I went over this with him, and his response was, until I started meeting his #1 need (SF) then there wasn't much for him to consider. We had the long drawn out conversation about me not feeling connected and that it was really hard to fulfill that need for him. The conclusion was I was to "fake" it, have sex, do what I need to do to fulfill him, and eventually I would learn not only to like it but love it. Then and only then would he consider looking at "parts" of the course again.I am not so good at faking it, but clearly am going to have to try! BTW I did try when we were away last week, did something way way out of my comfort zone (I had to blindfold him - because that was the only way I was comfortable). I thought maybe he appreciated it, enjoyed it, but if he did, there was nothing to let me know "wow that was great". i will post my plan b separatly, please feel free to critique it and help me out. This Plan B is a scary thing for me, but like DH said one way or the other I will be alone (because of travel or because we separate). So this might put the rules of being alone in my court.

PLAN B


So DH, I love you so much, but am finding myself falling out of love with you a a considerable speed.
I would like you to make other living arrangements for when you return from your next trip. Until you are ready to discuss with me,a plan of action to deal with our marriage recovery, there will be no contact of any kind, email, facebook, phone text etc, with the exception of setting aside time for you to see and do stuff with the kids when you are in town. When you have a plan in mind as to how we can continue, how we can spend quality time together (minimum 15 hours), how I can meet your needs, how you anticipate meeting mine, I would then be open to discussing and sharing with you some of my own ideas.

Hi CWMI

I have read and read the only stuff on plan a and b that I could find. I am simply not getting it. Please clarify. I think for the next 2 or 3 weeks I am to lavish him with love and meeting his needs, no matter what. Even if I am feeling disjointed, slighted etc, I am to show him that my intent is to love him and meet his needs. So then what happens? After week 3 i drop this note (Plan B) in his suit case, and hope he comes back to talk some day? I am clearly missing something here, because I am sure Dr H would not prescribe that.

I was really hoping someone else would join in this conversation besides ned.

It really depends on how you see the rest of your life. Your H has engaged in IB, you have engaged in LBs, and I have my personal experience to recommend a MB plan to deal with that and make life enjoyable for both of you.

Overnights away from home are something I never wanted in my life, from me or my husband(s), I knew that when I was 13 or so. It was much harder to enforce with my current husband because it wasn't an issue until we had kids and I became dependent. I begged, pleaded, got mad, got crazy stoopid, begged some more, but CALM got me where I am today, with a H who never travels.

Because I told everyone, calmly. Many people will say that a woman is controlling to refuse to remain married to a traveling man, but many will tell him wth are you doing? See, I had this as a boundary from the get-go; it was breached many times, and talking to family, co-workers, bosses about how this was destroying our family cold-dead stopped it.

I was willing to walk away, and I set things in place to. I did not plan B. My H humored me through coaching with Steve Harley, and got MAD when he was offered a new job...you can read my thread Duped to read how it has gone since then. We have ups and downs, but one thing we don't have and never will again is overnight travel.

I had the benefit of knowing he'd been educated by Steve. I suggest you skip spas and limos and put some money there. Or file D, unless you want your IB H to continue this behavior.

CALM. I swear, a man used to a banshee is stunned by a calm, controlled woman. Plan A. Love you, but love me, too, and willing to fight for US. Totally puts the ball in his court, but if you tell his 'teammates' what is going on, you will find more on your side than you expect. Nobody wants to work beside someone who screws over their family. But like I said, this is how I felt about travelling men from way before my H, and told him so when we got serious. Before marriage, before babies.

I got total words on this site years ago about talking to my H's coworkers and bosses...I am a fan now of doing so. If he wants his reputation as a 'family man' protected at work, he needs to have a rep worth it at home.

Why I recommend plan a and b for you is because your H knows you as a banshee who does not meet his needs. You want to save your marriage. So you need to show him you can and will and love to do that. B is because he cannot travel if you are to have a loving, protective marriage.

If traveling is unacceptable, don't accept it. Easy! You are already hating him, why prolong the agony?

lol cwmi what am I chopped liver Anyway we can help tic find a plan that works for her until the reinforcements come in.

tic I don't think the job is the problem, it's a symptom, of his life being about him. Please reread about Plan A and B for non-infidelity situations, http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html, and in the Newsletters section it goes into more detail too. It's negotiation to get your needs met while displaying a willingness to meet his needs. In a way that you're enthusiastic about, nothing like "no matter what". How creepy would that be! You're working on a new marriage, one where you both are kind and loving to each other and yourselves. Not suffering through gritted teeth. Like cwmi says, without love busting.

I mean this in a nice way, I really didn't care for the Plan B letter. It sounds at the same time breezy and out of left field. Do you want some examples?

Is Plan B something you want to go to in a few weeks? What do you think about calling the radio show and talking through your options?

Thanks you two for checking back in. I am truly at a loss here.

What struck me the most when I read your earlier post about plan a/b was that "I" with a capital and bolded "I" get to decide what I want my life to look like.

When the topic of this dream job first came up - we had problems, and you guys helped us out. The entire thread tells him not to do it, it spells disaster. So his answer was to drop MB completely (except for reminding me about his #1 need) and try and convince me this would be a good thing. It started out with this could be a together job. I would go with him when I could, help him set up his conferences, do the paperwork, leg work etc. As the kids get older, this would become more of the norm and I would go with him more often than not. That was the first carrot. I was excited about working with him this was going to be our retirement job.

Then the next carrot (and this one was on steroids) was when we talked about money. I had told him that the increase needed to be considerable as there is a monetary value to him being away all of the time. He had said I wouldn't have to work anymore etc etc. The number was 50% more than what he was making. The reality is he nets $700 more a month and is away at least half of it. Not worth $700 in my mind, nor will that give us the ability for me to go with him very often. Oh yeah, the part about me working with him that was never reality either.

So I have finally figured some of this out, going through old threads, the one where he got caught pretending to be someone else in order to educate me in the ways of the world, the one were he was on a business trip, wanted to stay an extra day to meet up with his buddies, but was afraid I would say no, so lied to me and told me the wrong dates of the conference, got caught when I called the hotel and the conference was over and he had checked out. Now add in the misinformation about this job, and how he again is trying to persuade me. Plain and simple I don't trust him to tell me the truth. He doesn't trust me to allow him his freedoms and work through the POJA.

So back to what I want. I want to be happy. I want a husband who loves me, is concerned about me and cares about me - openly. I want to be able to trust him, and get past the past. I don't know if I can have that with his travel. I do know he will not give this job up, and forcing him to will also be disastrous, because that he will resent me for forever, and there is no recovery for that one.

CMWI, we tried the Dr Steve thing, and frankly that in both of our opinions was not a good thing. I don't know whether we caught him at a bad time or what, but things were much worse afterwards than ever before. Mostly because Dr Steve left things hanging and never got back to us. I dont think either of us would spend our money on that. I agree with the drop the spas and limos, if I could go with him and spend time with him, not fine dining not spa days, but actual time, that would go a long long way. I guarantee you if we can come to peaceful times prior to leaving for Mexico, that will be a fantastic week, because I will be with him. I know I am preaching to the converted, I am looking for the one sentence that will explain this to DH. I just want him!!

@ NED

The link takes me to the one I already read, and was confused by. I didn't like my letter either, but really don't know how to do it, whether I am supposed to leave the door open, or close it and hope he has the key?

Maybe these Newsletters will help.

When to call it Quits Part 1

When to call it Quits Part 2

When to Call it Quits Part 3

We Have a Problem



Personally...it sounds to me like your husband is already off in La-La wayward thinking land with this job and you're not going to be particularly successful quickly getting him to give up this "dream" job where he gets to be a big shot very easily. He's surrounded by people in the same culture of entitlement and extracting anyone from that culture is difficult. Being the "big shot" is intoxicating.

Your situation is unique enough that perhaps Dr. Harley and Joyce would take an interest in having you on their radio show and you'll get some answers. He may strongly suggest more than the one month of "Plan A" that is typically suggested to women enduring continuing infidelity. Your situation isn't THAT unbearable (I'm not degrading your "feelings" either just proposing it's not as bad as infidelity...YET) and another job without travel (were he actively pursuing such) may take some time to obtain.

Anyway...good luck. CWMI is actually really experienced with your type of situation and she was tough enough to get her husband to switch jobs AND stay married and NED is one of the most genuinely nice women we have posting here at MB....so you've got a good mix helping you already.

Mr. Wondering

I appreciate both of you NED. Its tough, but I agree some have it way worse. At this point there is no infidelity, but the opportunity for it to happen, and frankly the chances for it to happen to either of us becomes drastically increased, as his travel does. If I am not filling his needs, his time etc, who is? Likewise, if I am feeling abandoned, left out, etc who is around to fill my needs. I am in NO way saying I am out there looking for my needs to be met, but I will be going out with friends and not DH more frequently, as he isnt here to go out with. I will protect myself from going there, but is it wrong to be afraid of the potential for both of us?

I would like to hear your experience with Steve. Not you H's, just yours.

I think I know your H's, and my H refused to speak to him anymore until I was dialing. Steve is great with getting through these high-minded guys. And guys like your H hate it when someone speaks to their wife without their input on the sitch. Anonymous boards like this are one thing; a charge on the credit card for marriage coaching are another, provable, thing.

I didn't poja coaching. I am probabaly not a great MB poja example. I fought like hell, went through hell, smiled in the face of adversity (omg, read my '08 and '09 threads!) and I won for my my family. Ned quit, fwiw, and divorced.

Thanks for the nod, Mr.W. Doughnut?

DITTO! They are two of the BEST.

My experience with Steve started out okay. He worked with me on the sexual aversion, or not aversion scenario. I was on the path to being comfortable. He told us to call him, whenever we got stumped on an exercise, and rather than have a heated discussion about it, to call him. We called and emailed him on 2 or 3 occasions, never a return phone call or email. We would finally discuss it at our next session with Steve. Then on to the next assignment. The last straw was the last assignment. We were to each determine our own 3 top needs, and describe in detail what that looked like. I thought I was told by Steve that our assignment was to share and discuss with DH before our next session, DH didn't understand the assignment, had questions and would not discuss the assignment until after he clarified with Steve, so that we didn't end up hurting each other. After several phone calls, several emails, from both of us, one of my last ones is Please Steve I really need your help, this exercise you gave us has had us fighting (and badly by this point) for more than a week. No return anything.

So to answer your question, my experience wasn't very good either, not because DH and I wouldn't do the assignments, but the promised "I will be there to guide you", never actually was there.

Ah, see, we had scheduled appointments and didn't expect Steve to act like our Mommas. We had weekly scheduled appointments, and at least one of us was adult enough to take notes and hold our tongues until scheduled counsel.

I think that may be your biggest problem, tic...holding your tongue until cooler heads can wag it.

Chill. If you need incentive for that...it will flip your H out. K?

We had scheduled appointments as well. the problem with the one assignment was it was quite controversial. We both had taken notes, as Steve always talked to us about the upcoming assignment separately. Anyhow, it is neither here nor there, the assignment never got done, we followed up with Steve, and he never got back to us.
Yes I need to chill!!! Tough though. Its tough when DH is away, then is going away again, and makes no time for me when he is here. Really tough to not get upset, to not let that tongue wag, if you know what I mean. We had an opportunity to spend the night and tomorrow together. I had stuff to do with the kids, but let him know I could arrange rides etc. His answer was come if you want, it doesn't matter to him. The answer I was hoping for (which I told him) was yes I would like you to come. His response is well I am not going to jump up and down and spit wooden nickles for you to come. Pretty tough to swallow, and pretty tough to be engaged with Plan A! I think until I accept this job of his as a good thing, and to use his words jump up and down and spit wooden nickles about it, he is not going to want to spend anymore time with me than he has too.

My H said the same thing, tic. Be happy and supportive of the job I already told him I didn't want him to take, or tough cookies. I didn't listen, and neither should you. You know this is hurting your marriage, why would you try to be happy about that?

I don't care how tough it is to chill. Easier than divorce. Tell him what you want, quit playing games with him. I can tell you, he won't want to spend time with you until you actually spend time together NOT talking about how bad your marriage is!

Good advice, and it seems to have worked out for you. How big of an IB'er was your hubby?? How do I tell him what I want, and not talk about how bad the marriage is? Anything I say about the job (even if it to ask a simple what are your new pay days) is taken as complete abuse of his job. I don't see it, and maybe because I am blind to it, but that particular question was meant to be neither positive or negative. Do I give him the same ultimatum he has given me? Include me in the job or give up the job, or give up me? Unfortunately I think I know the answer already, without ever asking, so maybe that is my answer?

That's his defense mechanism; he knows he did the wrong thing for your family. I suppose. My H would get very defensive and attacking if I asked him how his day was! Lol, wow, don't miss that.

You plan A for a few weeks and then tell him you love him but this job situation is hurting you too much to remain in it, so you do not want to see him or speak to him until he has arranged to stop traveling.

Meanwhile, like your example above, you could have said, "I'd like to spend tonight and tomorrow with you, I thought we could (whatever). So and so can give S and D rides to wherever, and whoever can stay with them overnight. I thought I would wear is for you (insert flash-peek of some lingerie). How does that sound?"

If he just glances and shrugs and says, "whatever," you say, " Great! I'll make the calls." Then show him a GREAT time.

Oh my H was a huge IBer. He would make up his mind about something and that was it, no negotiating. He would pretend to negotiate then do what he planned anyway. It was maddening. It took a long time to mostly overcome it. I say mostly because in January he had an unnecessary surgery I did not want him to have, the part he needed fixed had a 3day recovery, the part he didn't need but was tore up has a one YEAR recovery, and he got mad that I was trying to talk him out of it. Fwiw, he wanted pain relief and this part, which was not the cause of his pain before, hurts him like hell now. I wanted him to have pain relief, too, that's why I was trying to talk him out of it! I did a ton of research, he didn't want to hear any of it until he couldn't walk after a week. Before, he insisted that he would be up in three days, no big deal! Now, he can do less than he could before. Hopefully it will be fully better next year. I told him I thought I deserved a say in whether or not my H intentionally lamed himself.

The doctor had told him he could go forever without having that part replaced.

He did apologize for being so hard-headed and ill informed, and knew I had his interests in mind, although at the time he was calling me selfish. Hm? Lol.

Interesting!! I promise you he will not quit this job, nor can we financially handle the time frame of him finding a new job after he has only been there 2 weeks. I am willing to work with him on this, but MUST be included. I would actually look forward to traveling with him, helping him, being his Vanna White, shall we say.
Plan A will be tough to implement, when the man wont hardly talk to me. I think what you are saying above, is to ignore the downers that he is laying out and go with it. Pretend, for now, that he wants me. DO NOT talk about the job etc, wish him well when he leaves for the next trip, and send along a carrot of what he could have when he gets back? Did I get that right?

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2400725&page=1

There's the plan a/b thread. Some tweaks would need to be made, of course, since it is directed toward infidelity. Especially read the stick part! Plan A is not doormat behavior. I am a huge fan of exposure. In your case, I would put a shout out to anyone who can influence your H--the kids, his folks, his siblings, his friends--and ask them to help you influence him to return home and stop traveling because it is harming your family. This is not an evil thing to do; him traveling is not a secret. He can either willfully and intentionally blow up your marriage right in front of everybody, or he can stop. Direct communication of your hurt is okay, too. Just do it matter-of-factly, NOT emotionally and crying. "I feel lonely when you travel and I don't like it at all. Will you go to the store with me? We need milk."

Did he travel before? Were you okay with it? I'm having a hard time reading you, sometimes you seem okay with it. If you are going to get anywhere, you need to have a solid opinion on this.

He was in the Navy before, and I hated him being away. Before we got married, he retired and the travel stopped. He just informed me the other day that he has always resented me for that. If we do the travel together, and I am included, I am okay with it. We discussed this when he first started talking about the job. that excited me, that is what got me to buy into it. Now he says that was never really on the table, because he didnt really know what he would be doing for this company. Everyone we know, knows I am not happy about this job, and yes he gets mad every time he finds out I told one more person.

So, now he is confused as to why I want to spend time with him, when I am still upset about the job. AS per your link, this is how the conversation went

Me: I am not happy about this job, and I wont be happy about it, but I want to spend what time we do have together in a positive way, until you are prepared to make the right decision about this.

DH: (look on face spells it out) You can be unhappy about the job, whatever. You are so up and down right now I dont know what to think.

Me: (Still under control!!) I am up and down right now, because I want to make the best of our time together, but I am not going to accept this job. I will be announcing to our friends, and yours, that I am not happy about this new job, that I am not committing to it and that in time I would hope you make the right decision.

DH: Fill your boots

Me: (losing control now) I ended the discussion with okay I will

so I have commented on his FB, where all of his friends are congratulating him, and boosting up the ego about how wonderful this is, by saying
His Post:
This is it... My last day at *****. It has been a good place to be for the year and a half. Looking forward to the new challenges that lay ahead working for ******.

My response to all his congratulatory comments:

"The challenges of what lay ahead are more than meets the eye. This will take time, to adjust not sure what that adjustment looks like for us, but with any luck, the job doesnt come before the wife and family. At this point we are just not sure"

I am sure he will enjoy it, unfortunatly his is giving up his family for it

A simple "I am deeply unhappy with this change. I asked him not to take this job." would have sufficed (but you didn't, did you?). You are shooting yourself in the foot with your vagueness. I believe him when he says you are up and down. And you NEVER announce exposure, which in your case would not really be exposure as such, but an asking for help.

Slow the heck down, and be nice. You don't pelt him at every chance with your unhappiness. And you personally speak to people who can help influence him. Not put vague statements on his FB page. What did you expect to get from that? You are dangerous to your marriage right now, slow the heck down!

"right decision" was condescending. Where did you come up with that?

You really need to figure out exactly where you stand before you utter another word. Consistency is key. Go delete your post, apologize to your H, and tell him you are struggling right now. Period. If he wants more, tell him you want you BOTH to be happy. Period. You need to screw your head on straight before you talk more than that. You are sending mixed signals and you will need to be strong and clear.

Point taken. Adice also taken ty

tic, I was away this weekend, but am catching up. You mentioned your needs going unmet. I got active at church, it was like a family away from home, to give me strength to work on my marriage. I'm not saying it has to be a house of worship. I was talking to one lady yesterday who got a Mother's Helper, a teenager to come in and help in the afternoons. In HNHN for parents they also talk about how they got help when the kids are young. Not to replace your husband but to give you strength for the journey. Then you can have a peaceful talk with your H even while he's away, while you two negotiate something better long-term. CWMI is awesome and got through it without help but for me so much trying was exhausting.

Did you read the When to Call It Quits, especially the first one? Ellen took a year to get her ducks in a row. What would be a good timeline for you? Do you still think a few weeks out?

As CWMI points out, my marriage wasn't saved. Dr. H points out in the Q&As that a marriage can't be saved when drinking comes before the marriage, but I wanted to give it the best shot I had anyhow. Not every couple is going to follow the program and recover their marriage. But the ideas helped my family a ton anyway. We co-parent well together and we got through some personal and extended family tragedies stronger. I can't imagine facing the things we did without the simple concepts like thoughtful requests, respectful persuasion, negotiation.

I have no idea how long this will last. As CWMI pointed out, I need to figure out what I want, and I need to take my time about it. Patience is not one of my strong suits.I tried to convince myself that I could deal with this travel, as long as the lies stopped. Well since I had that self talk, we have had at least two more lies (that I know of and have found out). We were talking about how busy I am personally going to be with the kids sports, reffing etc in the next two months (like 15 or so floor times a week!) I said I should not have to give up my reffing, because I had to look after everything else. He tells me our son told him that he did not want to ref as much this year, and that should drop the number of driving times down for me. I asked our son how much reffing does he want to do, his response as much or more than last year. Hmmmm.
So DH left for business today, gone for 4 days, one of them being a "fishing trip" before he comes home. Okay I am set for this. I woke up wanting to be angry, and just couldnt when I see little notes around "love you" Miss you, etc. Put a smile on my face and stopped me from being angry. Good right?? Well then once he lands and gets to the hotel, he text messages me that he "just" found out he is actually gone monday and tuesday next week as well, even though he told me under no circumstances was he travelling next week. I cant stand the lies, I get caught up in them and cannot see the forest through the trees. So being angry, I told him he should fly from where he is straight to where he needs to be, and dont bother coming home for the weekend. Yeah I know - slow down.

Traveling kills marriages. I thought we could do it, too.

We did good for a while, but ultimately it won't work. Something a lot of people here told me and I refused to see or listen.

tic, it's natural to feel that way. I used to reread the Friends of Good Conversation every day before my ex got home to remind me of the goal. It's great, your self-talk improves, too. Anything you can say with anger you can start to say with thoughtful requests and respectful persuasion. You can start your day over, tic, maybe a nice text message with something good that's going on.

I dont think this will work, mostly because I dont trust him. What does that mean? I dont trust him to have my best interests at heart, I dont trust him with his whereabouts and why (is it work is it pleasure) he will tell me work, and then later on I find out it was all fun and games. I dont trust him when he gives me reasons to back his argument. Just yesterday he told me my son said something, that was not true. Had it been it would have helped his argument. Until I can trust him, and I dont know how to get that back, without just blind faith (which is what he wants), I dont know how him being away every week is going to work

Wait a second, are you accusing him of knowing something before telling you different (straight lying), or not keeping promises when it comes to work? I, erm, "gained access" to show my husband that he KNEW he was lying to me when he did; he tried to play things off as 'just found out! sorry!'

"gained access" is a very valuable tool for trust recovery. Note I did not say "given."

I would say a little of both. There are some things that he just plain lies about, there are others that he misleads me to gain approval, and then comes up with "well I didnt really know the facts", yet he gained my approval so in his mind its a done deal. How do I trust anything he says.

I will throw this one at you see what you think

Friday:
Me: I think I would like to go up to the cabin Monday/Tuesday to meet the guys working on it.
DH: Oh, tuesday? Hmm I think you should come back Monday to make sure everyone is ready for our holiday.

Today:
(he leaves for his 4 day business/fishing trip)(leaves me cute little notes - that I really like and brightens my day)
After he lands:
DH (via text) BTW, looks like I need to go away again Monday and be back Tuesday, I know you will be pissed but I have to do it. (this was paraphrased)

So the question is truth or coincidence??? He doesnt want me gone Monday/Tuesday then all of a sudden he is, so therefore I cant be due to commitments at home, which he was going to "help" with

I am having a hard time making sense of that. What guys do you want to meet at the cabin?

I would respond, "I already have plans that we agreed on for Monday, I will be home at x time that evening and the kids are looking forward to your dinner! Much love, tic."

You seriously need UA time. And poja. "I'd like for us to go up to meet the guys working on the cabin this week. What day is good for you?" should do it.

"I will not have my life dictated by your job," should work, too.

We have some work being done, and I just wanted to be there when they start. Yes I could say that...in fact did say (total LB) so much for my plans, to which he comments that I could go Saturday to Monday - which by the way I am going to. He doesnt "remember" talking about me going though - at least that is the claim.
I think he wants me to be the doting wife, mother etc, and drop what I am doing or have planned for his job, that I dont like. Again I get that anger thing going... I am just totally frustrated. It seems anything I want is not important, but I damned well better be here when he eventually is to fulfill his need for SF.

That I have done, and get "oh well". You will need to be there when I am not.

Ask him if he wants the doting wife. Tell him what it will take for him to get her.

I think you are your own worst enemy because you have agreed to everything you are clamboring about now. You want no travel? Then don't agree to "some." you want no new car? Then don't say okay. It is pretty simple stuff once you stop making grudging agreements. Then, at least, you can blame it all on him, lol.

Right now, it is on you, dear. Knock it off. Deciding what you really want and sticking to it does not make you a tyrannical B, it gives you a place to poja from, whether you H immediately gets on board or not. Respect, btw, works both ways. Nobody likes a liar, nobody likes a flip-flopper, either.

And you accept that as end of conversation?

Fair enough CWMI. It just feels like I have no choice, so there fore the flip flop. I must agree with him, because he leaves me no choice. How do I say to him, I dont agree to the travel? When he does, do I just let it go, oh well he does what he wants anyhow? Unfortunately the anger is getting in the way. You are correct, I begrudgingly agree, or not necessarily agree, but go along with it, then my emotions take over and I get mad for him doing it anyhow. So the alternative is, I tell him I dont agree to the travel, he does it anyhow, and I just take it on the chin, and with a smile?? All I really truly want is for him to acknowledge what this is for me, some care, some attention, and a whole lot of understanding. The added responsibility, the loneliness, the lack of being apart of something with him, the lack of togetherness. Instead what I have is the added responsibility, which he says I would have anyhow if he were to leave, the knowledge that he would "prefer" the house all tidied up upon his return, his choosing when and what and how much to tell me, at his discretion, the ability on his part to change any plans I may have under the guise of "work calls - you change", and then the always present "well you dont meet my EN's". Its tough, I want him, I love him, but everyday I grow apart, to the point that right now I hardly even like him. I get the bed to myself, which I dont particularly like, but then when he comes home, I resent him taking half (cause when he is not there I take the middle), I resent that I now have to deal with his snoring, I resent that the rules I had in place while he was gone, now go out the window, and he wants all the rules around the house his way. We are suppose to go away next week on a vacation - at this point I am not excited and really dont want to go. I am venting again - sorry.

What could you do to really get the message across? Does something like taking the kids to stay with your mom for two weeks sound honest?

That sounds perfect . . for DH. He wants me to get out and do things on my own. That would save him of two weeks of travel without us to worry about. I did try the please dont come home this weekend, when his plans abruptly changed for next week. I was told that I dont get to make those decisions, and that he will be home. The kids have stuff going on all weekend, so my answer is going to be, I wont be here when he gets home, and he can then deal with it all. I will take the retreat!

Have you ever sat down and calmly told him that you were wrong to agree to the travel to begin with?

I would start there, but you gotta control your anger. Passive-agressively disappearing is going to accomplish what, exactly?

Planning a nice meal out and some time alone together somewhere peaceful, beautiful, or fun will get you a LOT further than nyah-nyah-watch-me-go.

Yes I have calmly talked to him about it. He simply doesn't care, which is when I get angry. You know ultimately I could deal with this travel as it appears I am going to have to anyhow. The angry part comes from me and our marriage playing second fiddle to this job. The more angry part comes from the mistruths, outward lies and his lack of giving a damn about anything around home and his family. At this point, I feel, he just wants a place to hang his hat when he is not traveling, everyone needs a bed right? I will wait to see how the rest of the week goes. Does he check in? Does he care, does he show he is concerned about what is going on. What is he going to do about these travel plans that just came up? I think if i dont get the warm comfy from him, at all, i really have no choice but to pack it in. Dr H says that is a gamble, to cut off ties etc, but frankly I dont think DH would even miss me, it would just make things easier for him down the road.

You are probably aware of how destructive your line of action is?

Just imagine, you are nagging at him at home. In the mean time, while he is on the road he meets this nice woman. Dressed cute but not cheap. Chitchats with him about the weather. Makes no problems. He is just talking to her about the weather of course. No sinister plans there. Then he comes back home, and you are gone, creating some kind of drama - coming back home reluctantly.
And when he's gone, she is nice to him, just chatting.

Now, go on nagging and demanding for months and months. And think about your competition (we all have competition) that you do not know about. What are you going to accomplish by being upset with him?

Of course these problems should be adressed. And you should say that you prefer a job where he does not travel. And you should also do nice things with him and do UA. We know that this was not your decision and that his behaviour and decisionmaking were not talked about with you. But you cannot let your anger dictate how you interact with him. In a few months, he will not even want to come home to that. Then, you can move this post to the 'surviving an affair' forum.

Make a tactical plan to turn this around.
Think about alternatives. Alternative jobs, alternative scenarios, joint traveling, whatsoever. You may even want to give his resume to a headhunter or something. But let it be something constructive. Do not be so narrow-minded.

You cannot force him to do as you want, just as he should not have forced you to do as he wanted. Now get thinking. What do you think you'd be left with in case of a divorce? Is is that what you want? Wake up, because you are not thinking clearly.

May God give you wisdom,

Happyheart

Oh so I do not have the wisdom... You are correct I am not thinking clearly. There really is no tactical plan available no alternatives. Just suggesting an alternative job = angry husband, the company and the salesmen dictate what the scenario is, we talked about joint traveling, in fact that was one of his carrots to convince me to agree with him, but he has advised me that it is not reality now that he knows more about the job (who takes a job where they didn't know what they were going to be doing, or what they were going to get paid?) Giving his resume to a headhunter, that also would be an immediate angry husband because I was presumptuous. Doing nice things with him - sure, when he is home. We are supposed to be going on a vacation as of Thursday, my honest answer, I don't want to go, my heart isn't in it, not excited like I normally would be. He asked me if I was going to start tanning awhile ago, to get ready, I cant even be bothered to do that. normally by now I would have the suntan lotion bought, the clothes sorted etc. Yes i know that would be a full week of UA with him. Not excited about that either.
The only alternative answer is I suck it up, accept the travel as it is, be happy that he is happy. That is all he wants, along with the kids and all they do taken care of and a clean house to come home to. He will not negotiate, that much should be obvious.
What do I have with a divorce, well I would have nothing to be angry about, I could then do something about being depressed and lonely. (I am not putting myself in the position you described above - meeting some nice guy who just talks to me and spends time with me, essentially gives me what DH cannot)

So, you are going to engage in denying meeting his needs, refusing to let him meet your needs, and throw away a perfectly good - great, in fact - UA opportunity... because "you don't feel like it?"

That sounds absolutely retaliatory.

SO I meet his needs, boost his ego, tell him how wonderful and successful he is because he got this job, pretend to enjoy hearing all about the luxury of this company, and what they provide for him. Is that not lieing? the one single thing that I am hung up on with DH? The one thing that is causing me the most frustration and anger? And then when I am feeling completely good about myself jump into bed with him. He is not meeting my needs, doesnt even recognize at this point that I even have needs. Until I meet his need of accepting this job, being happy about it, supporting it even, he will not even consider anything I may need. So yeah, I am really excited to go to Mexico with all of this on my plate. Good time to reconnect I suppose, but I wont lie to him.

You don't have to lie to him, but you can do plan A. At least you will have a plan and a timeline and something to work on.
If he asks you, you can calmly state that you would prefer for him to have a job that won't take so much time away from the family.

It is true: the job can be just as much of an addiction as an affair. But you know what Dr. Harley says: after some time reality sets in and the job is just a job. And not more appealing than having a family.

What about giving him such a warm welcome and such a good time that he will dread having to go away again?
I always thought the old book of Marabel Morgan: "The total woman" was essentially a good description of plan A. The thing you miss in this book is of course the POJA, but the reason it works so well for so many people, that it can jumpstart a marriage again by unilaterally filling up the male love bank balance. If you have a good man, he will often fall in love again and semi-automatically start filling yours. So, a good read if you want inspiration for a stellar plan A, before you think of other measures.

Good luck,

Happyheart

You don't want to lie to him, but you may still appreciate some of the good things about him. I imagine you would not have spent so many years with him and had 4 children when he was such a despicable person.

That is true Happyheart. I do (did I dont know) love him. I cannot give him what he wants the most, my total acceptance. I am not going to sacrifice myself to pretend that I do. There is not much to appreciate right now. He is gone, and when he is home he is busy talking about the fantasy of this job and planning the next trip. He helped out a bit, got groceries, cause I asked him to, and did a couple loads of laundry. If that is all the "good" I get out of this, I will hire a maid. That would be more productive.

So... anger is your excuse to either employ neglect or abuse as a way to fix your marriage?

How has that worked so far?

It isn't working for him, why should it work for you?


Being a pleasant companion has nothing to do with being dishonest, and everything to do with learning to make your complaints respectfully, to stand your ground respectfully, and to be the greatest source of your spouse's happiness.


Honesty is not an excuse to be rude, abusive, or negligent with our spouse.

What abuse, you say? Angry Outbursts, Selfish Demands, and Disrespectful Judgements.

Yes, you are trying to get your needs met. In fact, if you look directly at the definitions of individual Love Busters right here on the website, Dr. Harley acknowledges that most people employ Love Busters as foolish and abusive attempts to have their needs met.

This program is about breaking those habits.

Wait a minute. How am I neglecting him? He is the one not home. He is the one that is busy. I have things to do around the house and with the kids, if he doesnt want to partake in that, then he is causing the neglect. Everything he does right now makes me angry. I agree that is not in line with the MB program. I guess I need to politely tell him I dont agree with him and he will do his own thing anyhow. Am I just not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel?? If you ask me, being nice, forgiving, understanding of the pressures of his job, and jumping into bed with him when he happens to stop by for a weekend is not anything close to honesty. Even if it serves his needs, it is so disrespectful to myself. It is bad enough he gives me no respect, now you want me to do the same to myself? Do you not understand that the ONLY thing that will make him happy is to jump right in on this job, congratulate, admire, boost him up etc, accept whatever he tells me as the truth. So that is the only way I will be his greatest source of happiness, otherwise this company he works for will.
So to break this down (I want to get a handle on what you are saying, so that maybe I can work this out)
Angry outbursts - I get mad when he changes the travel plans, lies to me to get my agreement, or just make things easier for him
Selfish Demands - Yes I think I get this one. I dont want you doing this job, even though you want to and have. I need(yes the word expect is certainly thought about) your help when you are home. I can see the selfishness both ways on that one.
Disrespectful Judgements - I call him out on the lies that I have found out about. I dont trust him for face value anymore (would that be considered a DJ?)

So to counter all of this, and looking at the source of my anger, I need to request he unfacebook me, so that I dont see all the details of all the fun he is having and how proud his friends are of him. I need to ask him to stick to his schedule, and not change things last minute (although that one is setting me up for disappointment because it will happen). I need to know well in advance what that schedule looks like, including the maybes. (this allows me to acclimatize myself to what is to come) To deal with the selfish demands - stop talking about the job and how he made the unilateral decision. Allow him the freedom when he is home (no groceries, no kids appointments etc) to spend time with us. The one I got nothing on is the disrespectful judgements. Stop thinking he is constantly lieng to me?

I would tell him, very calmly and matter-of-factly, that you do not want to hear any more talk about this job because it is bringing you so much pain and ruining your family.

One of my H's biggest complaints was that I didn't support his job (the old one). Steve asked him, "The one she asked you not to take?" Uh, yeah, that one. Steve explained to him how cruel it was to demand that I LIKE something I said that I didn't. Before I even knew about MB, I told him that if he took that job, we would end up divorced. My H asked if I was just going to go file if he said yes to the offer. I told him no, but that eventually the bad stuff I already knew about it would take its toll and I would either end up hating him or him hating me. I could not see a good outcome from him working there. Eventually he left there, because it was awful! It was a terrible time in our lives. It is so different now that he does not work in a misogynistic environment. Not perfect, but 99% better. My H would have said his job was his greatest source of happiness. Now he sees it for what it was, and his greatest source is myself and the children. That was accomplished because he finally spent enough time with us to discover how delightful we are.

If he is lying to you, it would be stupid to try to convince yourself otherwise.

Get with Steve or the online program.

(((Tryingincalgary)))))

First and foremost; can't do anything about your husband's behavior. If he comes back and posts? Sure.

I'm not going to aid your disrespectful view of your husband by pointing fingers at him. Rather, I'm going to point out that you post about your husband in a disrespectful manner - and if you can't contain it in a simple forum post, I doubt you contain it when you interact with him.

The absolute BEST way this forum can help you, is to help you eliminate your Love Busting habits, and how to complain and negotiate effectively with your husband without resorting to Love Busters.

There isn't a whole lot of need to go over his Love Busters - you live with him, and you know the things he does that destroy your love for him.



By using your anger and resentment as justification to avoid a trip together.


You are right. Because if you were trying to follow the program, you wouldn't BLAME SOMEONE ELSE for YOUR CHOICE to be angry, and act in anger.


Pretty much. You need to stop being a jerk. It hasn't worked for you thus far, what makes you think doing the same thing is going to work in the future?



You can't control him. You can communicate your needs, and if he refuses to meet them, you escalate- Plan B----> Plan D.


Nope. And it's by choice, choice justified like so;


You are confusing honesty with score keeping.




Seriously? So, you have to act like a jerk to respect yourself? It hasn't made him treat you respectfully so far, has it?


Has it?


Of course not, and it never will.


Do YOU understand that you ARE NOT HIM? And that there is no possible way you could know this, and thus this entire statement is you justifying your behavior with a disrespectful judgement?



No you don't, you want to be presumptuous and put words in my mouth to continue to justify your actions.

No dice.


No - Angry Outbursts are how YOU CHOOSE to react, how you choose your words, your tone of voice, your actions. His actions are called Dishonesty and Independent Behavior, not "reasons for my wife to act like a jerk."



This rubbish is, again, you attempting to justify your Love Busting behavior;


You make it tougher through disrespect and anger.



No. Just no.

Again, you are attempting to justify your own Love Busting behavior on him.

No.






Yeah. That's exactly it.

Have you, like, ever read any of the material on this site? In any of the books? Listened to the radio show?

There's a good idea; e-mail the radio show.

Wow HHH
Yes of course i have read the material. I have even done the material. I have a pretty good handle on my side of things, I have no clue on his side other than the list and his behavior. I know he needs SF, I know he needs admiration and affection. what that looks like to him - who knows, even he doesnt because I have asked I have tried different things, none seem satisfying to him.

Today I have made some decisions, as to what I want. In order for me to stop being hurt, and therefore stop my own LB's, I have now blocked him on FB, as I said above. I will not tolerate the lies, I will not investigate what I consider to most likely be a lie. It is pretty hard to be the smiley happy wife, when you know you have been fed a line. I don't think there is a nice way to say hey - you've been caught, that isn't the truth. All it does it gets his dander up, which you are now saying is my fault. It will be safer he if just tells me when he is coming and going so that I can work to his schedule.
I have not made my mind up about about going on the vacation. If I go, I am going with the intention of plan A, if I dont go, that will give me a week of getting plan b organized before he gets back. I am still in a state of chaos, and am trying hard to control my anger. I am being totally disregarded, that hurts and that makes me angry. He made time for me tonight, all of 10 minutes. I guess I will take what I can get, but he was out with the krew socializing with all the fun and games and that is where his time was spent. Nice he texted me though to say good night.

Exactly where did I say that when he "gets his dander up" that it's your fault?

What I said is that your reactions to his behavior are your responsibility, and that his Love Busters do not justify your Love Busting habits.

I am not disagreeing that your husband's Independent Behavior and Dishonesty are wrecking your marriage. I'm just saying your retaliatory behavior isn't making it any better.

A Plan A---->Plan B scenario may very well work for you. Just make sure that; 1) you do an actual Plan A, 2) You have your Plan B letter checked.

And you shouldn't "take what you can get." But, I wouldn't expect much of change until you can start making complaints respectively to him.

I have come to the conclusion, HHH, that no matter how sensitive, how kind, how heart felt the complaint is, all I am going to get is Blah blah blah. I have said things like: both before and after he accepted the job "I really am not comfortable with this new job""I cannot be happy about this job when I am so sad about it" "I dont know if I can make this work" to "I cannot support the position you have taken" "I think taking this job is going to be very bad for our relationship""I dont see us getting much time together to work on any issues we have"

The result to any of it is DH standing his ground, and saying whatever needs to be said to convince me that this is a good thing for US. The reality is it isn't good for us, it may be good for him, it definitely isn't good for me.

Before he accepted I asked DH for permission to talk to one of his future coworkers to see what this actually looks like and how their marriage was handling it. I was looking for pointers to help me accept this. The guy put me in touch with his wife, as she would be better to explain the affects of the traveling salesman as a wife. She is a doll and loves her husband dearly. She said if this made him happy, which it does, then she could be nothing but happy, because he was so happy. I asked but what would have happened if it turned out that you really hated only having a weekend husband. Her response told me that the two of them get it. She said the two of them talked about it prior to taking the job. They mutually agreed that if at any time one of them was uncomfortable with the traveling that he would quit his job and look for a local job. See, they mutually agreed to try it and they mutually agreed to fix it if it wasn't working. I think my DH compares me to her, she is the sweetheart that goes along with hubbies wishes, and I am the queen b... that doesn't. I have calmly (yes I truly mean calmly) said to him, that the difference is she knows that if she is ever unhappy about it, she could talk to him and they would fix it. She knows that she was part of the decision and at any time could have said no,not a good idea, and she felt safe saying that. My DH says in return, I will never give you that kind of power, because you will use it. You wont give this a fair trial. So DH has also talked to the husband of that relationship. What I have been told by the wife is her DH treats her like a queen when he is home. He cooks, he cleans, he sees what she needs, he spends all of his time with her and the children. My DH told him that he does all that. So reality is, yes he does cook (has since we got married), he does some laundry, and yeah that's about it. TBH we do try to spend time together, but recently it has been so hurtful that it is not quality time, in fact its almost counter productive.

I think i need to figure out if I still love my DH. I have read and reread this post, the plan b posts etc. A plan b for me seems that I would be doing the no contact to punish him for the way he has made me feel. That is not the intent, from what I read it is to show him what he is missing. The problem with Plan A, for me (right now) is I am disgusted with his behavior and his lack of commitment to our marriage. Fighting about it has got me nowhere, I see that. I see that my AO and DJ have further added to my own disgust with the situation, it has perpetrated it. Plan A may only be setting myself up for more disappointment, more anger, more sadness. I don't feel like I am apart of this marriage, i don't feel like there is any partnership. I cannot handle the emotional upheaval right now, going back and forth trying to figure out what pleases him, sacrificing things I want to do and share. This has consumed my entire being, and I am even arguing with you guys about it, for which I am truly sorry, you are only trying to help. I can't work, I can't eat, I am not sleeping. I have been down the depression road before, and I see the wall right in front of me. This is a total fail for me, and I don't think I have the strength. I think I am going to go away for the weekend, as I had planned and pull myself together. I will think long and hard about DH and whether I even want this anymore. At this point, I see what I am doing to myself, to the kids, to our friends and to you guys. We will see if the fight is worth fighting for.

Dr. H's program is a guarantee to have you fall back in love with your H.

Can you call the coaching center?

That is the same problem everyone in Plan A has; it does not make you unique or incapable of doing it. Who goes into Plan A because they are so pleased with their spouse??? It is an enticement to try to get them to change the harmful behavior. Plan A always come with the risk of being followed by B and D.

Did you see yourself type "sacrificing things I want to do"? Isn't that what you are complaining about your H, that he just does what he wants without considering you? And then you complain that to follow MB would mean you wouldn't be able to do what you want?

Call your doctor and get some ADs, girl. No going away without POJAing it with your husband. Do you need help with that conversation? (I am thinking obviously YES!) "This traveling situation and what it is doing to our marriage is really getting to me. I was thinking I might take off this weekend alone while you are here to stay with the kids. I found a hotel/spa/wigwam that I'd like to stay at Friday and Saturday, and come home sometime Sunday night, probably around 9. Would that be okay with you?" Be prepared for a No, and if you get one, ask for alternatives that he can support, that you want to decompress and think in a different environment because your home is feeding your lonliness. However, all of that sounds like bunk. Neglected wives don't want time away from their husbamds, they want MORE time with their husbands, but if you're going to be stupid about this, I at least want you to do as little damage as possible.

Thanks CWMI. I am not capable of doing much right now. Yes I typed sacrifice the things I want to do and SHARE. Yes I am sacrificing alot right now. I dont have a partner, I dont have that partner to socialize with, I dont get to go out with him. Yeah to me that is a sacrifice.

Why does me needing time to figure out what it is I want, do I love him, do I want to fight for this sound like bunk? I am not thinking right, hell i am not doing much if anything right, right now. I need to get away from the computer, the phone the anything that puts me "available" and takes away the availability to vent for me. (my venting not his). Sorry but he makes me think I am stupid all of the time, i am not STUPID, I am confused, sad and lost right now. I need to find me first before I can find the us. I need to worry about the damage to myself before I can worry about the damage to the "us". One cannot go through life with the pain I am feeling right now, and yes I will call someone before

If you need to find yourself, look in your shoes. You are speaking wayward speak.

Look at what you are saying.

You want a partner to do things with...so when he is home you want to leave to be alone?

One can, many have, gone through life after feeling your pain. You are talking to one of them. Are you this kind of drama queen with your husband? Oh, I have been there! So don't think I am talking down to you, I KNOW what you are going through, and I can tell you it will get better! Not by dipping into depression or being dramatic, but by dropping a pair of brass ones and being firm and confident. Knock off the pity party, and get ready for implementing a plan of action.

Lol... TESTIFY!

TiC - you are on the razor's edge of withdrawal, and your taker is raging at the wheel.

I think CWMI can uniquely tune to your perspective on this. Go over her struggles, and you will see that.


Think about what you are saying about Plan A - and look here;


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3610_state.html

Truth is, your husband is likely in withdrawal, too. Which is the point of eliminating your own Love Busters... which is the point of trying to meet your spouse's needs.

A spouse who has been transitioned from conflict to intimacy is going to be more receptive to complaints and more interested in making changes than a spouse in withdrawal. Which is easily explained in the explanations of those marital states to begin with.

I would love to talk to her more, but the "yes I will call someone before" cutoff is more over-dramatic bs.

Really, tic? Decide who you want to be, and then be that person. Life really is that simple.

yes I will call someone before I go away for the weekend. Sorry the send button got hit, and I got called away with the kids.

I have called the Dr. and I am dealing with that right now. Her advice, get away from the stress for a couple of days. My heart rate and BP are through the roof.

I am going to do a bit of sole searching over the next couple of days. I need to decide if I can deal with the lies and the travel. I cant make him not lie, and I cant make him not travel. Filling all his possible needs on the weekends will definitely give him the smile on his face as he packs for the next trip and yeah he will look forward to the same treatment when he comes back again! At this crossroads, I need to decide what is best for me.

TTY all on Monday. HAve a great weekend.

tic, have a great weekend. I hate to throw a wrench in, but I just saw you have a 14 year old. Please make sure to keep a good eye on her, a few of us struggling with family stability issues found our kids aren't as resilient as we expect them to be. I know that sounds negative but I don't think I could sleep if I didn't say that when it came to mind. Just like check her phone when she wouldn't expect, something like that, it'll be obvious if she gets all mad, "why do you want to see my phone?!"

True, you can't.

But, you can make yourself react better to discovering lies, you can choose not to use it as an excuse/justification for your own Love Busting. The very first thing we do when we discover a lie, is to unleash a torrent of Disrespectful Judgments. We mentally (or verbally) attempt to assassinate the character and integrity of our spouse... because, hey, it's just right.




http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5016b_qa.html

Your reaction is outlined in the first letter, as is the actual solution;


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5016_qa.html

So the weekend started out pretty rocky, as expected. DH got home Friday, I came home Saturday. He was all full of puff telling me he did all that I had asked, the banking taking dd shopping etc.. I think I was supposed to be thankful, instead I saw it as sharing the work load - something married couples do. Things went downhill from there. He was yelling at me about something, my older son came up and yelled that we needed to stop no argument there). DH gets up from the table and shoves son and tells him to back off or be a man. He then, still yelling, says he has already asked me for a divorce. (shocks everyone including me) Things settle down and we go out with YS and DD, as planned. I get treated like dirt, but expect it, so no negative stuff back, I am being quietly pleasant, not wanting to stir the pot. That night went to bed, he came and it was just unpleasant, from the lights going on to his mumbling. The next day I go meet him and he tells me that he actually doesnt want a divorce, but he is not going to be quitting his job. I eventually get to say my piece, and told him what I perceived to be lies and misleading comments is in fact what has gotten me to where I am. We went out that night, alone. We had an awesome talk. I came away from it understanding, he came away understanding. I told DH, that this job and his travels make me uncomfortable, overly busy, stressed etc. We also talked about how I felt deceived when I agreed to this a long time ago. I thought he understood.
We came home, he had to pack for his trip today. I had cleaned up our room in the morning, consolidating his piles of stuff. I refolded his clothes, I stacked the stuff neatly, there was no disrespect there, nor none intended. Apparently, that was not a good thing to do, because the words started flying at that point, about how awful I am, what i am, why I did it etc. He wanted to engage in an argument. I simply told him, I have been trying to clean the house, as I thought that would make him happy. He kept at me and I just said, I was not going to discuss it any further. (I think I handled it well??)
I was hoping with all hope that we could have had a little "us" time when we went to bed. He met my need for conversation, and I was feeling connected. I will use his words that he used to describe the situation "well with all the positive that happened tonight, you just sucked it all out". I got up, cleaned the kitchen, did the laundry etc. - couldnt sleep was way to wound up. There was a glimmer that our vacation was going to be okay, now I dont think so. I have no idea what will or will not set him off. He tells me if I do not go the consequences will be something neither of us want.

tic, you have probably answered this before but I can't find it:

Is this a second marriage for either or both of you? I'm looking at the ages of your first three children. Are all the children both of yours biologically?

Did you live together before you were married?

Your H used to post here. I have been reading his threads and I see that he was warned about his temper many times, and he appeared to make a commitment to stop his angry outbursts, yet these have escalated to the point where he sounds dangerous now. His AOs seem to be threatening the marriage (as AOs always do).

Why did he stop posting? Do you think you can get him to come back?

I was married before, this is my 2nd marriage, his first. All 4 are mine, youngest two with DH. We lived together for 1 year before we got married. Yes he used to post here, and he tells me he reads the posts frequently. He has been on other Marriage help sites, that contradict MB. So he wants to use a combo plan. He doesn't like what some people have to say. You can see what is said about the job, well when he heard that - and he couldn't win the argument with you guys, well he quit. The other site says, time away is VERY good, and that you both should "do your own thing". He doesn't like the POJA, wont do it, cant do it. It doesn't go along with his belief system and what he is reading elsewhere. I get when the threads go off on some tangent (and they do at times) where someone says something and the next thing you know the poster is accused of being addicted to porn and sex is an alcoholic and drug addict.
I have asked him to read CC1171's post as it hits home, and because it was not directed at him, would help him see what the AO's do. I think he understands the short term effect of flying off the handle, it is pretty apparent! I don't think he sees or even believes there is a long term effect.

POJA or no POJA, Dr. Harley says that if there is anything in your marriage that is non-negotiable, that you will do or demand regardless of how your spouse feels about it, it spells doom for your marriage.

I don't repeat that because I enjoy spreading messages of doom. I repeat it because I believe it is important for people to understand what they are up against and face their problems head on.

Traveling can kill a marriage but so can losing a job. My husband lost his job of 25 years a few years back. Watching him was hard. It was done in a very cruel way and I felt so bad for him. He still talks about it and misses it. He is 62 and has found another job at half the pay. I think this feeds into his terrible depression. He says he has never been so hurt. One reason he was fire was HIS younger boss was turning in HIS work as his own. So,they fired my husband and moved the boss up here since he was doing such a good job and my husband "wasn't". He lasted 3 weeks before they realized he was incompetent but did not hire my husband back. That had been his hope. He was devastated. 4 more people have been in that position and they have been fired also.
My husband spent many years dodging knives in his back. He worked so hard for the company but corporate people have no conscience. They are their whole world. Other people do not exist. I wouldn't work for corporate on a BET.
This is when my husband's depression started to come back. I really think it started a chemical break down in his brain because he had a psychological breakdown. It's affected our whole lives. We are just barely making it but have learned to do without a lot of things. But I don't rule out our marriage failing. He's trying to get a psychological foothold and I see him trying. It's the only reason I am still here. It's been hell on earth.

I believe you markos, trust me I believe you. The problem could be me. I have made this a non negotiable item, I dont want him gone 4/5 days of 7. He has made it non negotiable - he told me this weekend he will not quit and will continue with it, but "he promises it will get better and we will adapt".
So I end up negotiating with myself - yes we (me and I) have interesting debates! - as to how I can accept this and make it work for all of us, me, DH and the kids

Iwanttohelp, traveling jobs can and do kill a marriage. We see the fall out on these forums every day. The solution is to find a non traveling job.

You should express thanks/appreciation/affection when your partner does what they're 'supposed to do' in 'sharing the workload'. Why wouldn't you? How do you think you can entice him to spend time at home sharing the workload if you don't even appreciate it????

Honest questions.

I did say thank you - I didn't jump him and congratulate him for the effort. I agree more effort on my part was required. Most of the stuff DH did, was stuff that was specifically for him, that during the time he was away, I simply did not have enough hours to get it done. I get that while he is away I should be getting his stuff done as well as my own, my job, taking the kids where they need to go, house clean etc. The taker in me has a hard time appreciating the things that he would normally done himself, if not for the travel. I know I need to address this, I am trying man. I thought I did pretty good over the weekend with the LB's (dealing with his, and trying to eliminate mine). I would say although not 100% on my part, I am getting there and would grade myself with an 80%. Not quite there, but getting there.