And you accept that as end of conversation?

Fair enough CWMI. It just feels like I have no choice, so there fore the flip flop. I must agree with him, because he leaves me no choice. How do I say to him, I dont agree to the travel? When he does, do I just let it go, oh well he does what he wants anyhow? Unfortunately the anger is getting in the way. You are correct, I begrudgingly agree, or not necessarily agree, but go along with it, then my emotions take over and I get mad for him doing it anyhow. So the alternative is, I tell him I dont agree to the travel, he does it anyhow, and I just take it on the chin, and with a smile?? All I really truly want is for him to acknowledge what this is for me, some care, some attention, and a whole lot of understanding. The added responsibility, the loneliness, the lack of being apart of something with him, the lack of togetherness. Instead what I have is the added responsibility, which he says I would have anyhow if he were to leave, the knowledge that he would "prefer" the house all tidied up upon his return, his choosing when and what and how much to tell me, at his discretion, the ability on his part to change any plans I may have under the guise of "work calls - you change", and then the always present "well you dont meet my EN's". Its tough, I want him, I love him, but everyday I grow apart, to the point that right now I hardly even like him. I get the bed to myself, which I dont particularly like, but then when he comes home, I resent him taking half (cause when he is not there I take the middle), I resent that I now have to deal with his snoring, I resent that the rules I had in place while he was gone, now go out the window, and he wants all the rules around the house his way. We are suppose to go away next week on a vacation - at this point I am not excited and really dont want to go. I am venting again - sorry.

What could you do to really get the message across? Does something like taking the kids to stay with your mom for two weeks sound honest?

That sounds perfect . . for DH. He wants me to get out and do things on my own. That would save him of two weeks of travel without us to worry about. I did try the please dont come home this weekend, when his plans abruptly changed for next week. I was told that I dont get to make those decisions, and that he will be home. The kids have stuff going on all weekend, so my answer is going to be, I wont be here when he gets home, and he can then deal with it all. I will take the retreat!

Have you ever sat down and calmly told him that you were wrong to agree to the travel to begin with?

I would start there, but you gotta control your anger. Passive-agressively disappearing is going to accomplish what, exactly?

Planning a nice meal out and some time alone together somewhere peaceful, beautiful, or fun will get you a LOT further than nyah-nyah-watch-me-go.

Yes I have calmly talked to him about it. He simply doesn't care, which is when I get angry. You know ultimately I could deal with this travel as it appears I am going to have to anyhow. The angry part comes from me and our marriage playing second fiddle to this job. The more angry part comes from the mistruths, outward lies and his lack of giving a damn about anything around home and his family. At this point, I feel, he just wants a place to hang his hat when he is not traveling, everyone needs a bed right? I will wait to see how the rest of the week goes. Does he check in? Does he care, does he show he is concerned about what is going on. What is he going to do about these travel plans that just came up? I think if i dont get the warm comfy from him, at all, i really have no choice but to pack it in. Dr H says that is a gamble, to cut off ties etc, but frankly I dont think DH would even miss me, it would just make things easier for him down the road.

You are probably aware of how destructive your line of action is?

Just imagine, you are nagging at him at home. In the mean time, while he is on the road he meets this nice woman. Dressed cute but not cheap. Chitchats with him about the weather. Makes no problems. He is just talking to her about the weather of course. No sinister plans there. Then he comes back home, and you are gone, creating some kind of drama - coming back home reluctantly.
And when he's gone, she is nice to him, just chatting.

Now, go on nagging and demanding for months and months. And think about your competition (we all have competition) that you do not know about. What are you going to accomplish by being upset with him?

Of course these problems should be adressed. And you should say that you prefer a job where he does not travel. And you should also do nice things with him and do UA. We know that this was not your decision and that his behaviour and decisionmaking were not talked about with you. But you cannot let your anger dictate how you interact with him. In a few months, he will not even want to come home to that. Then, you can move this post to the 'surviving an affair' forum.

Make a tactical plan to turn this around.
Think about alternatives. Alternative jobs, alternative scenarios, joint traveling, whatsoever. You may even want to give his resume to a headhunter or something. But let it be something constructive. Do not be so narrow-minded.

You cannot force him to do as you want, just as he should not have forced you to do as he wanted. Now get thinking. What do you think you'd be left with in case of a divorce? Is is that what you want? Wake up, because you are not thinking clearly.

May God give you wisdom,

Happyheart

Oh so I do not have the wisdom... You are correct I am not thinking clearly. There really is no tactical plan available no alternatives. Just suggesting an alternative job = angry husband, the company and the salesmen dictate what the scenario is, we talked about joint traveling, in fact that was one of his carrots to convince me to agree with him, but he has advised me that it is not reality now that he knows more about the job (who takes a job where they didn't know what they were going to be doing, or what they were going to get paid?) Giving his resume to a headhunter, that also would be an immediate angry husband because I was presumptuous. Doing nice things with him - sure, when he is home. We are supposed to be going on a vacation as of Thursday, my honest answer, I don't want to go, my heart isn't in it, not excited like I normally would be. He asked me if I was going to start tanning awhile ago, to get ready, I cant even be bothered to do that. normally by now I would have the suntan lotion bought, the clothes sorted etc. Yes i know that would be a full week of UA with him. Not excited about that either.
The only alternative answer is I suck it up, accept the travel as it is, be happy that he is happy. That is all he wants, along with the kids and all they do taken care of and a clean house to come home to. He will not negotiate, that much should be obvious.
What do I have with a divorce, well I would have nothing to be angry about, I could then do something about being depressed and lonely. (I am not putting myself in the position you described above - meeting some nice guy who just talks to me and spends time with me, essentially gives me what DH cannot)

So, you are going to engage in denying meeting his needs, refusing to let him meet your needs, and throw away a perfectly good - great, in fact - UA opportunity... because "you don't feel like it?"

That sounds absolutely retaliatory.

SO I meet his needs, boost his ego, tell him how wonderful and successful he is because he got this job, pretend to enjoy hearing all about the luxury of this company, and what they provide for him. Is that not lieing? the one single thing that I am hung up on with DH? The one thing that is causing me the most frustration and anger? And then when I am feeling completely good about myself jump into bed with him. He is not meeting my needs, doesnt even recognize at this point that I even have needs. Until I meet his need of accepting this job, being happy about it, supporting it even, he will not even consider anything I may need. So yeah, I am really excited to go to Mexico with all of this on my plate. Good time to reconnect I suppose, but I wont lie to him.

You don't have to lie to him, but you can do plan A. At least you will have a plan and a timeline and something to work on.
If he asks you, you can calmly state that you would prefer for him to have a job that won't take so much time away from the family.

It is true: the job can be just as much of an addiction as an affair. But you know what Dr. Harley says: after some time reality sets in and the job is just a job. And not more appealing than having a family.

What about giving him such a warm welcome and such a good time that he will dread having to go away again?
I always thought the old book of Marabel Morgan: "The total woman" was essentially a good description of plan A. The thing you miss in this book is of course the POJA, but the reason it works so well for so many people, that it can jumpstart a marriage again by unilaterally filling up the male love bank balance. If you have a good man, he will often fall in love again and semi-automatically start filling yours. So, a good read if you want inspiration for a stellar plan A, before you think of other measures.

Good luck,

Happyheart

You don't want to lie to him, but you may still appreciate some of the good things about him. I imagine you would not have spent so many years with him and had 4 children when he was such a despicable person.

That is true Happyheart. I do (did I dont know) love him. I cannot give him what he wants the most, my total acceptance. I am not going to sacrifice myself to pretend that I do. There is not much to appreciate right now. He is gone, and when he is home he is busy talking about the fantasy of this job and planning the next trip. He helped out a bit, got groceries, cause I asked him to, and did a couple loads of laundry. If that is all the "good" I get out of this, I will hire a maid. That would be more productive.

So... anger is your excuse to either employ neglect or abuse as a way to fix your marriage?

How has that worked so far?

It isn't working for him, why should it work for you?


Being a pleasant companion has nothing to do with being dishonest, and everything to do with learning to make your complaints respectfully, to stand your ground respectfully, and to be the greatest source of your spouse's happiness.


Honesty is not an excuse to be rude, abusive, or negligent with our spouse.

What abuse, you say? Angry Outbursts, Selfish Demands, and Disrespectful Judgements.

Yes, you are trying to get your needs met. In fact, if you look directly at the definitions of individual Love Busters right here on the website, Dr. Harley acknowledges that most people employ Love Busters as foolish and abusive attempts to have their needs met.

This program is about breaking those habits.

Wait a minute. How am I neglecting him? He is the one not home. He is the one that is busy. I have things to do around the house and with the kids, if he doesnt want to partake in that, then he is causing the neglect. Everything he does right now makes me angry. I agree that is not in line with the MB program. I guess I need to politely tell him I dont agree with him and he will do his own thing anyhow. Am I just not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel?? If you ask me, being nice, forgiving, understanding of the pressures of his job, and jumping into bed with him when he happens to stop by for a weekend is not anything close to honesty. Even if it serves his needs, it is so disrespectful to myself. It is bad enough he gives me no respect, now you want me to do the same to myself? Do you not understand that the ONLY thing that will make him happy is to jump right in on this job, congratulate, admire, boost him up etc, accept whatever he tells me as the truth. So that is the only way I will be his greatest source of happiness, otherwise this company he works for will.
So to break this down (I want to get a handle on what you are saying, so that maybe I can work this out)
Angry outbursts - I get mad when he changes the travel plans, lies to me to get my agreement, or just make things easier for him
Selfish Demands - Yes I think I get this one. I dont want you doing this job, even though you want to and have. I need(yes the word expect is certainly thought about) your help when you are home. I can see the selfishness both ways on that one.
Disrespectful Judgements - I call him out on the lies that I have found out about. I dont trust him for face value anymore (would that be considered a DJ?)

So to counter all of this, and looking at the source of my anger, I need to request he unfacebook me, so that I dont see all the details of all the fun he is having and how proud his friends are of him. I need to ask him to stick to his schedule, and not change things last minute (although that one is setting me up for disappointment because it will happen). I need to know well in advance what that schedule looks like, including the maybes. (this allows me to acclimatize myself to what is to come) To deal with the selfish demands - stop talking about the job and how he made the unilateral decision. Allow him the freedom when he is home (no groceries, no kids appointments etc) to spend time with us. The one I got nothing on is the disrespectful judgements. Stop thinking he is constantly lieng to me?

I would tell him, very calmly and matter-of-factly, that you do not want to hear any more talk about this job because it is bringing you so much pain and ruining your family.

One of my H's biggest complaints was that I didn't support his job (the old one). Steve asked him, "The one she asked you not to take?" Uh, yeah, that one. Steve explained to him how cruel it was to demand that I LIKE something I said that I didn't. Before I even knew about MB, I told him that if he took that job, we would end up divorced. My H asked if I was just going to go file if he said yes to the offer. I told him no, but that eventually the bad stuff I already knew about it would take its toll and I would either end up hating him or him hating me. I could not see a good outcome from him working there. Eventually he left there, because it was awful! It was a terrible time in our lives. It is so different now that he does not work in a misogynistic environment. Not perfect, but 99% better. My H would have said his job was his greatest source of happiness. Now he sees it for what it was, and his greatest source is myself and the children. That was accomplished because he finally spent enough time with us to discover how delightful we are.

If he is lying to you, it would be stupid to try to convince yourself otherwise.

Get with Steve or the online program.

(((Tryingincalgary)))))

First and foremost; can't do anything about your husband's behavior. If he comes back and posts? Sure.

I'm not going to aid your disrespectful view of your husband by pointing fingers at him. Rather, I'm going to point out that you post about your husband in a disrespectful manner - and if you can't contain it in a simple forum post, I doubt you contain it when you interact with him.

The absolute BEST way this forum can help you, is to help you eliminate your Love Busting habits, and how to complain and negotiate effectively with your husband without resorting to Love Busters.

There isn't a whole lot of need to go over his Love Busters - you live with him, and you know the things he does that destroy your love for him.



By using your anger and resentment as justification to avoid a trip together.


You are right. Because if you were trying to follow the program, you wouldn't BLAME SOMEONE ELSE for YOUR CHOICE to be angry, and act in anger.


Pretty much. You need to stop being a jerk. It hasn't worked for you thus far, what makes you think doing the same thing is going to work in the future?



You can't control him. You can communicate your needs, and if he refuses to meet them, you escalate- Plan B----> Plan D.


Nope. And it's by choice, choice justified like so;


You are confusing honesty with score keeping.




Seriously? So, you have to act like a jerk to respect yourself? It hasn't made him treat you respectfully so far, has it?


Has it?


Of course not, and it never will.


Do YOU understand that you ARE NOT HIM? And that there is no possible way you could know this, and thus this entire statement is you justifying your behavior with a disrespectful judgement?



No you don't, you want to be presumptuous and put words in my mouth to continue to justify your actions.

No dice.


No - Angry Outbursts are how YOU CHOOSE to react, how you choose your words, your tone of voice, your actions. His actions are called Dishonesty and Independent Behavior, not "reasons for my wife to act like a jerk."



This rubbish is, again, you attempting to justify your Love Busting behavior;


You make it tougher through disrespect and anger.



No. Just no.

Again, you are attempting to justify your own Love Busting behavior on him.

No.






Yeah. That's exactly it.

Have you, like, ever read any of the material on this site? In any of the books? Listened to the radio show?

There's a good idea; e-mail the radio show.

Wow HHH
Yes of course i have read the material. I have even done the material. I have a pretty good handle on my side of things, I have no clue on his side other than the list and his behavior. I know he needs SF, I know he needs admiration and affection. what that looks like to him - who knows, even he doesnt because I have asked I have tried different things, none seem satisfying to him.

Today I have made some decisions, as to what I want. In order for me to stop being hurt, and therefore stop my own LB's, I have now blocked him on FB, as I said above. I will not tolerate the lies, I will not investigate what I consider to most likely be a lie. It is pretty hard to be the smiley happy wife, when you know you have been fed a line. I don't think there is a nice way to say hey - you've been caught, that isn't the truth. All it does it gets his dander up, which you are now saying is my fault. It will be safer he if just tells me when he is coming and going so that I can work to his schedule.
I have not made my mind up about about going on the vacation. If I go, I am going with the intention of plan A, if I dont go, that will give me a week of getting plan b organized before he gets back. I am still in a state of chaos, and am trying hard to control my anger. I am being totally disregarded, that hurts and that makes me angry. He made time for me tonight, all of 10 minutes. I guess I will take what I can get, but he was out with the krew socializing with all the fun and games and that is where his time was spent. Nice he texted me though to say good night.

Exactly where did I say that when he "gets his dander up" that it's your fault?

What I said is that your reactions to his behavior are your responsibility, and that his Love Busters do not justify your Love Busting habits.

I am not disagreeing that your husband's Independent Behavior and Dishonesty are wrecking your marriage. I'm just saying your retaliatory behavior isn't making it any better.

A Plan A---->Plan B scenario may very well work for you. Just make sure that; 1) you do an actual Plan A, 2) You have your Plan B letter checked.

And you shouldn't "take what you can get." But, I wouldn't expect much of change until you can start making complaints respectively to him.