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I have come to the conclusion, HHH, that no matter how sensitive, how kind, how heart felt the complaint is, all I am going to get is Blah blah blah. I have said things like: both before and after he accepted the job "I really am not comfortable with this new job""I cannot be happy about this job when I am so sad about it" "I dont know if I can make this work" to "I cannot support the position you have taken" "I think taking this job is going to be very bad for our relationship""I dont see us getting much time together to work on any issues we have"

The result to any of it is DH standing his ground, and saying whatever needs to be said to convince me that this is a good thing for US. The reality is it isn't good for us, it may be good for him, it definitely isn't good for me.

Before he accepted I asked DH for permission to talk to one of his future coworkers to see what this actually looks like and how their marriage was handling it. I was looking for pointers to help me accept this. The guy put me in touch with his wife, as she would be better to explain the affects of the traveling salesman as a wife. She is a doll and loves her husband dearly. She said if this made him happy, which it does, then she could be nothing but happy, because he was so happy. I asked but what would have happened if it turned out that you really hated only having a weekend husband. Her response told me that the two of them get it. She said the two of them talked about it prior to taking the job. They mutually agreed that if at any time one of them was uncomfortable with the traveling that he would quit his job and look for a local job. See, they mutually agreed to try it and they mutually agreed to fix it if it wasn't working. I think my DH compares me to her, she is the sweetheart that goes along with hubbies wishes, and I am the queen b... that doesn't. I have calmly (yes I truly mean calmly) said to him, that the difference is she knows that if she is ever unhappy about it, she could talk to him and they would fix it. She knows that she was part of the decision and at any time could have said no,not a good idea, and she felt safe saying that. My DH says in return, I will never give you that kind of power, because you will use it. You wont give this a fair trial. So DH has also talked to the husband of that relationship. What I have been told by the wife is her DH treats her like a queen when he is home. He cooks, he cleans, he sees what she needs, he spends all of his time with her and the children. My DH told him that he does all that. So reality is, yes he does cook (has since we got married), he does some laundry, and yeah that's about it. TBH we do try to spend time together, but recently it has been so hurtful that it is not quality time, in fact its almost counter productive.



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I think i need to figure out if I still love my DH. I have read and reread this post, the plan b posts etc. A plan b for me seems that I would be doing the no contact to punish him for the way he has made me feel. That is not the intent, from what I read it is to show him what he is missing. The problem with Plan A, for me (right now) is I am disgusted with his behavior and his lack of commitment to our marriage. Fighting about it has got me nowhere, I see that. I see that my AO and DJ have further added to my own disgust with the situation, it has perpetrated it. Plan A may only be setting myself up for more disappointment, more anger, more sadness. I don't feel like I am apart of this marriage, i don't feel like there is any partnership. I cannot handle the emotional upheaval right now, going back and forth trying to figure out what pleases him, sacrificing things I want to do and share. This has consumed my entire being, and I am even arguing with you guys about it, for which I am truly sorry, you are only trying to help. I can't work, I can't eat, I am not sleeping. I have been down the depression road before, and I see the wall right in front of me. This is a total fail for me, and I don't think I have the strength. I think I am going to go away for the weekend, as I had planned and pull myself together. I will think long and hard about DH and whether I even want this anymore. At this point, I see what I am doing to myself, to the kids, to our friends and to you guys. We will see if the fight is worth fighting for.


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Dr. H's program is a guarantee to have you fall back in love with your H.

Can you call the coaching center?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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That is the same problem everyone in Plan A has; it does not make you unique or incapable of doing it. Who goes into Plan A because they are so pleased with their spouse??? It is an enticement to try to get them to change the harmful behavior. Plan A always come with the risk of being followed by B and D.

Did you see yourself type "sacrificing things I want to do"? Isn't that what you are complaining about your H, that he just does what he wants without considering you? And then you complain that to follow MB would mean you wouldn't be able to do what you want?

Call your doctor and get some ADs, girl. No going away without POJAing it with your husband. Do you need help with that conversation? (I am thinking obviously YES!) "This traveling situation and what it is doing to our marriage is really getting to me. I was thinking I might take off this weekend alone while you are here to stay with the kids. I found a hotel/spa/wigwam that I'd like to stay at Friday and Saturday, and come home sometime Sunday night, probably around 9. Would that be okay with you?" Be prepared for a No, and if you get one, ask for alternatives that he can support, that you want to decompress and think in a different environment because your home is feeding your lonliness. However, all of that sounds like bunk. Neglected wives don't want time away from their husbamds, they want MORE time with their husbands, but if you're going to be stupid about this, I at least want you to do as little damage as possible.


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Thanks CWMI. I am not capable of doing much right now. Yes I typed sacrifice the things I want to do and SHARE. Yes I am sacrificing alot right now. I dont have a partner, I dont have that partner to socialize with, I dont get to go out with him. Yeah to me that is a sacrifice.

Why does me needing time to figure out what it is I want, do I love him, do I want to fight for this sound like bunk? I am not thinking right, hell i am not doing much if anything right, right now. I need to get away from the computer, the phone the anything that puts me "available" and takes away the availability to vent for me. (my venting not his). Sorry but he makes me think I am stupid all of the time, i am not STUPID, I am confused, sad and lost right now. I need to find me first before I can find the us. I need to worry about the damage to myself before I can worry about the damage to the "us". One cannot go through life with the pain I am feeling right now, and yes I will call someone before


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If you need to find yourself, look in your shoes. You are speaking wayward speak.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
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Look at what you are saying.

You want a partner to do things with...so when he is home you want to leave to be alone?

One can, many have, gone through life after feeling your pain. You are talking to one of them. Are you this kind of drama queen with your husband? Oh, I have been there! So don't think I am talking down to you, I KNOW what you are going through, and I can tell you it will get better! Not by dipping into depression or being dramatic, but by dropping a pair of brass ones and being firm and confident. Knock off the pity party, and get ready for implementing a plan of action.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
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Originally Posted by CWMI
Look at what you are saying.

You want a partner to do things with...so when he is home you want to leave to be alone?

One can, many have, gone through life after feeling your pain. You are talking to one of them. Are you this kind of drama queen with your husband? Oh, I have been there! So don't think I am talking down to you, I KNOW what you are going through, and I can tell you it will get better! Not by dipping into depression or being dramatic, but by dropping a pair of brass ones and being firm and confident. Knock off the pity party, and get ready for implementing a plan of action.

Lol... TESTIFY!

TiC - you are on the razor's edge of withdrawal, and your taker is raging at the wheel.

I think CWMI can uniquely tune to your perspective on this. Go over her struggles, and you will see that.


Think about what you are saying about Plan A - and look here;

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As long as a husband and wife are happy, the state of intimacy hums right along. But no one is happy all the time, especially when making sacrifices to make someone else happy. And when unhappiness is experienced by either spouse, the slumbering Taker is immediately alerted to the pain.

"What's going on? Who's upsetting you?" the slumbering Taker wants to know.

It can be a temporary lapse if your spouse is still in a giving mood and apologizes for the error (whether or not it's his or her fault). Your spouse may promise to be more thoughtful in the future or make a greater effort to meet an unmet need. The Taker is satisfied that all is well, and goes back to sleep, leaving the Giver in charge, and keeping you in the state of intimacy.

But what happens if there are no apologies? What if the damage is not repaired quickly? What if one spouse continues to be thoughtless or unwilling to meet an emotional need?

When that occurs, the Taker, mindful of all your sacrifices in the state of Intimacy, comes to your defense.

I think it's time for a new rule, the Taker advises. Youメve done enough giving for a while, now it's time to get something in return. Instinctively, you adapt the Taker's rule: Do whatever you can to make yourself happy, and avoid anything that makes yourself unhappy, even if it makes your spouse unhappy. When that happens, you've entered the second state of mind in marriage -- Conflict.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3610_state.html

Truth is, your husband is likely in withdrawal, too. Which is the point of eliminating your own Love Busters... which is the point of trying to meet your spouse's needs.

A spouse who has been transitioned from conflict to intimacy is going to be more receptive to complaints and more interested in making changes than a spouse in withdrawal. Which is easily explained in the explanations of those marital states to begin with.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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I would love to talk to her more, but the "yes I will call someone before" cutoff is more over-dramatic bs.

Really, tic? Decide who you want to be, and then be that person. Life really is that simple.



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yes I will call someone before I go away for the weekend. Sorry the send button got hit, and I got called away with the kids.

I have called the Dr. and I am dealing with that right now. Her advice, get away from the stress for a couple of days. My heart rate and BP are through the roof.

I am going to do a bit of sole searching over the next couple of days. I need to decide if I can deal with the lies and the travel. I cant make him not lie, and I cant make him not travel. Filling all his possible needs on the weekends will definitely give him the smile on his face as he packs for the next trip and yeah he will look forward to the same treatment when he comes back again! At this crossroads, I need to decide what is best for me.

TTY all on Monday. HAve a great weekend.

Last edited by tryingincalgary; 03/30/12 05:56 PM.

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tic, have a great weekend. I hate to throw a wrench in, but I just saw you have a 14 year old. Please make sure to keep a good eye on her, a few of us struggling with family stability issues found our kids aren't as resilient as we expect them to be. I know that sounds negative but I don't think I could sleep if I didn't say that when it came to mind. Just like check her phone when she wouldn't expect, something like that, it'll be obvious if she gets all mad, "why do you want to see my phone?!"


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Originally Posted by tryingincalgary
I cant make him not lie...

True, you can't.

But, you can make yourself react better to discovering lies, you can choose not to use it as an excuse/justification for your own Love Busting. The very first thing we do when we discover a lie, is to unleash a torrent of Disrespectful Judgments. We mentally (or verbally) attempt to assassinate the character and integrity of our spouse... because, hey, it's just right.

crazy

Quote
In my book, His Needs, Her Needs, I discuss the emotional need for Honesty and Openness. As with all emotional needs, when it's met, it makes a person feel very good, and when it's not met, it makes the person very unhappy. When your most important emotional needs are met, you fall in love with the person who meets them, but when they are not met, you lose that feeling of love. You may find your love for your boyfriend already slipping away now that you feel he cannot meet your need for honesty.

If your boyfriend does not have the same need for honesty, he will not understand what's wrong with you. He can understand why you would have been upset at first, but why continue to be upset, and why would you think of ending the relationship. What he doesn't understand is that from your perspective, he is now a totally different person than he was before he lied to you. Before he lied, he met your need. Now he doesn't. If he wants your love back, he must somehow reestablish your trust in him. He must return to the days when he was meeting your need for honesty.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5016b_qa.html

Your reaction is outlined in the first letter, as is the actual solution;

Quote
In my book, His Needs, Her Needs (chapter 7), I write about three kinds of liars: 1) born liars, 2) avoid trouble liars and 3) protector liars. From what you've said about her, she sounds like the avoid trouble liar. These people do things that they know are unacceptable, then when confronted they lie to avoid getting into trouble. Here are some of the points I make in this chapter:


The born liar is different than the avoid trouble liar in that he doesn't seem to know the difference between truth and fiction, and makes things up for no apparent reason or purpose. An avoid trouble liar, on the other hand, is very much aware of the truth and only lies to avoid getting into trouble.

The "avoid trouble" liar is used to getting their way. They usually have a long history of agreeing to anything and then doing what they please. When confronted with their lie, they promise they will never do it again, another lie, of course. They are usually very cheerful people because they are living a life that suits them just fine. If people would just stop telling them what to do, they think there would be no need for dishonesty. What they think makes them dishonest, is people trying to change them. They don't think it's right, so they tell people whatever they want to hear just to get them off their backs.
The way to help an "avoid trouble" liar learn to be truthful is to focus attention on honesty and ignore everything else for a while. I encourage such people to tell the truth in return for their spouses not telling them what to do. In other words, minimize the consequences of the acts that they are afraid will get them into trouble. Instead of trying to punish your wife for going back on her promises, I would put more emphasis on safe and pleasant negotiation, where she is free to explain what she wants to do, and give you a chance to offer alternatives that are genuinely attractive to her.

What happens now is that she feels she is "made" to agree with you. You have told her that unless she does this or that, you will leave her. Even in the beginning, you explained that unless she stopped smoking, you would not even date her. She has learned to agree with anything and then do what she pleases to avoid a fight or being abandoned. But what if there were no fight? What if you wouldn't leave her? I recommend that you try to stop fighting with her, and you stop threatening to leave her. When she tells you she smokes, tell her you would appreciate it if she didn't, and offer her incentives to stop. But I wouldn't use threats.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5016_qa.html


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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So the weekend started out pretty rocky, as expected. DH got home Friday, I came home Saturday. He was all full of puff telling me he did all that I had asked, the banking taking dd shopping etc.. I think I was supposed to be thankful, instead I saw it as sharing the work load - something married couples do. Things went downhill from there. He was yelling at me about something, my older son came up and yelled that we needed to stop no argument there). DH gets up from the table and shoves son and tells him to back off or be a man. He then, still yelling, says he has already asked me for a divorce. (shocks everyone including me) Things settle down and we go out with YS and DD, as planned. I get treated like dirt, but expect it, so no negative stuff back, I am being quietly pleasant, not wanting to stir the pot. That night went to bed, he came and it was just unpleasant, from the lights going on to his mumbling. The next day I go meet him and he tells me that he actually doesnt want a divorce, but he is not going to be quitting his job. I eventually get to say my piece, and told him what I perceived to be lies and misleading comments is in fact what has gotten me to where I am. We went out that night, alone. We had an awesome talk. I came away from it understanding, he came away understanding. I told DH, that this job and his travels make me uncomfortable, overly busy, stressed etc. We also talked about how I felt deceived when I agreed to this a long time ago. I thought he understood.
We came home, he had to pack for his trip today. I had cleaned up our room in the morning, consolidating his piles of stuff. I refolded his clothes, I stacked the stuff neatly, there was no disrespect there, nor none intended. Apparently, that was not a good thing to do, because the words started flying at that point, about how awful I am, what i am, why I did it etc. He wanted to engage in an argument. I simply told him, I have been trying to clean the house, as I thought that would make him happy. He kept at me and I just said, I was not going to discuss it any further. (I think I handled it well??)
I was hoping with all hope that we could have had a little "us" time when we went to bed. He met my need for conversation, and I was feeling connected. I will use his words that he used to describe the situation "well with all the positive that happened tonight, you just sucked it all out". I got up, cleaned the kitchen, did the laundry etc. - couldnt sleep was way to wound up. There was a glimmer that our vacation was going to be okay, now I dont think so. I have no idea what will or will not set him off. He tells me if I do not go the consequences will be something neither of us want.

Last edited by tryingincalgary; 04/02/12 08:25 AM.

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tic, you have probably answered this before but I can't find it:

Is this a second marriage for either or both of you? I'm looking at the ages of your first three children. Are all the children both of yours biologically?

Did you live together before you were married?

Your H used to post here. I have been reading his threads and I see that he was warned about his temper many times, and he appeared to make a commitment to stop his angry outbursts, yet these have escalated to the point where he sounds dangerous now. His AOs seem to be threatening the marriage (as AOs always do).

Why did he stop posting? Do you think you can get him to come back?


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I was married before, this is my 2nd marriage, his first. All 4 are mine, youngest two with DH. We lived together for 1 year before we got married. Yes he used to post here, and he tells me he reads the posts frequently. He has been on other Marriage help sites, that contradict MB. So he wants to use a combo plan. He doesn't like what some people have to say. You can see what is said about the job, well when he heard that - and he couldn't win the argument with you guys, well he quit. The other site says, time away is VERY good, and that you both should "do your own thing". He doesn't like the POJA, wont do it, cant do it. It doesn't go along with his belief system and what he is reading elsewhere. I get when the threads go off on some tangent (and they do at times) where someone says something and the next thing you know the poster is accused of being addicted to porn and sex is an alcoholic and drug addict.
I have asked him to read CC1171's post as it hits home, and because it was not directed at him, would help him see what the AO's do. I think he understands the short term effect of flying off the handle, it is pretty apparent! I don't think he sees or even believes there is a long term effect.


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Originally Posted by tryingincalgary
He doesn't like the POJA, wont do it, cant do it.

POJA or no POJA, Dr. Harley says that if there is anything in your marriage that is non-negotiable, that you will do or demand regardless of how your spouse feels about it, it spells doom for your marriage.

I don't repeat that because I enjoy spreading messages of doom. I repeat it because I believe it is important for people to understand what they are up against and face their problems head on.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Traveling can kill a marriage but so can losing a job. My husband lost his job of 25 years a few years back. Watching him was hard. It was done in a very cruel way and I felt so bad for him. He still talks about it and misses it. He is 62 and has found another job at half the pay. I think this feeds into his terrible depression. He says he has never been so hurt. One reason he was fire was HIS younger boss was turning in HIS work as his own. So,they fired my husband and moved the boss up here since he was doing such a good job and my husband "wasn't". He lasted 3 weeks before they realized he was incompetent but did not hire my husband back. That had been his hope. He was devastated. 4 more people have been in that position and they have been fired also.
My husband spent many years dodging knives in his back. He worked so hard for the company but corporate people have no conscience. They are their whole world. Other people do not exist. I wouldn't work for corporate on a BET.
This is when my husband's depression started to come back. I really think it started a chemical break down in his brain because he had a psychological breakdown. It's affected our whole lives. We are just barely making it but have learned to do without a lot of things. But I don't rule out our marriage failing. He's trying to get a psychological foothold and I see him trying. It's the only reason I am still here. It's been hell on earth.

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I believe you markos, trust me I believe you. The problem could be me. I have made this a non negotiable item, I dont want him gone 4/5 days of 7. He has made it non negotiable - he told me this weekend he will not quit and will continue with it, but "he promises it will get better and we will adapt".
So I end up negotiating with myself - yes we (me and I) have interesting debates! - as to how I can accept this and make it work for all of us, me, DH and the kids


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Originally Posted by Iwanttohelp
Traveling can kill a marriage but so can losing a job.

Iwanttohelp, traveling jobs can and do kill a marriage. We see the fall out on these forums every day. The solution is to find a non traveling job.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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You should express thanks/appreciation/affection when your partner does what they're 'supposed to do' in 'sharing the workload'. Why wouldn't you? How do you think you can entice him to spend time at home sharing the workload if you don't even appreciate it????

Honest questions.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
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