Okay, this is not really a H/W marriage-related question, but I have difficulties in my relationship with my mother-in-law, and that affects my marriage... So I hope you don't mind me posting here...

My MIL is a widow and can be very overbearing and critical of her in-laws, while her own children can do no wrong... I have had numerous difficulties with her crossing boundaries over my H's and my 23-year marriage, but it has gotten worse over the last two years since my H and I moved back to our home town (her town, too)...

We have been working on setting better boundaries with her, but I have also been working on being assertive (not aggressive) in my dealings with her.

Well, she is often passive-aggressive in her dealings with me and often says things that are hurtful that she either does not remember or pretends that she doesn't remember or mean to stay... She either forgets or "plays stupid" to make a long story short...

Well, a few months ago, I invited her to a Pampered Chef party that a friend of mine was having. The topic came up about a baking stone that I bought for her nearly 20 years ago... When I drove her home, she got out the stone and mentioned that she never used it and that I should really have it. I felt a little hurt by how she said it that she should have either said it in a different way or that she should not have told me she never used it (i.e., didn't really want it) and either given it away or kept it...

Okay, so to make a long story short... I decided to use what she said in my steps to become more assertive with her. So I decided that the next time I was baking something that would be great using the stone, I would remind her that she said she never used it and that I should have it. Well, the time turned out to be today... I stopped over to her house, and she had other relatives who were visiting, but she had stepped out to do errands. I decided to mention to the other relatives that she had said that I should have the stone recently, and I took it. I then texted her to tell her that I was by, and reminded her that she mentioned that I should have the stone recently, and that I was by her house and picked it up since I was making pizza tonight. I then said that I hoped that was okay, and to let me know if she wants it back.

So... Since I am such a doormat, this was an extremely assertive thing for me to do because 1) If she was, in fact, criticizing my gift to her and really did not want me to have it, I basically went and took it from her, or 2) If she really did forget that she mentioned I could have it, I feel like I should have talked to her about it first.

Now this may seem like a really stupid topic for most people, but I am really feeling bad about just taking the stone without reminding her about the discussion and asking her if it was okay first... apologizing profusely, etc...

Could some of you daughters-in-law let me know your thoughts on this? Was I out of line to take the stone without discussing it again with her first, or was this a good exercise in assertiveness? After all, she was either wanting me to have it, or she was passively-aggressivly criticizing me to say what a stupid gift it was... I feel so bad about it, you would think I punched her in the nose or something!!?? Please help.

Refusing an offering only to step in and steal it later is passive aggressive. In probably one of the most disgusting forms.

How does your H feel about this? How is your marriage? This isn't Realtionship with Inlaw Builders...

CWMI- I did not refuse her offering and step in and steal it later, and don't care for the accusation. At the time, I said something like, well, yes, if you don't want it, I would love it. Then she put it back in the cupboard and "forgot" that she had offered it to me.

Deleting this post...

And, BTW, my H wants me to be more assertive with her. She invited herself on our last family vacation, and he had to uninvite her.

Deleting the rest of this post... will go to a different web site dealing with family relationships for help. Thanks anyway...

CP, If you're still here, I would submit that Dr. Harley often talks about the effects (often negative) that in-laws (MILs, FILs) often have on marriages. He has also spoken on his radio show more than once in my memory of how to handle these issues.
In fact he recounts that I believe it was a disrespectful comment or situation that came up between his wife and his parents (they were in the wrong). He made it clear to them that they would apologize and it wouldn't happen again, or they would disassociate with them.

Only one person responded to you. I hope you consider other's opinions as well before you turn heel. You will find very good information here about how to make your marriage even stronger (with or without issues from your MIL).

I agree that you are doing well to handle this problem with the full cooperation of your Husband. We call that using the POJA (policy of joint agreement). You can start by looking that up on the site.

~optimism

CP,
I just realized tat you posted in November.
Melody Lane, one of the most authoritative and prolific posters here advised you to read Falling in Love , Staying in Love.

Have you read that and implemented some of the strategies?

opt

You asked for thoughts, you got pissy, tried to take it back like it never happened...is this a pattern for you? Really think about that. Rather than react.

Thank you, Optimism. I felt insulted and not heard or understood by the initial response and reacted defensively and regret it. I'm sorry to all.

I appreciate your feedback and insite that Dr. Harley has talked about the effects of inlaws on a marital relationship. I do feel that it is one of the biggest issues affecting my H and I in recent years, and my H and I are seeing a counselor and the subject comes up quite frequently. My MIL is a widow and my H is her oldest son. She frequently gossips, to me and others, about my brother-in-law and sister-in-law, and I know that she has done the same behind my back. She is very manipulative in her relationships, and each time I see her she brings up an issue one of her daughters is having with their H or boyfriend. It is always, always the other person's fault, never her daughters' or sons' faults with the problems in their marriages or relationships.

When she brings anything up now, I just change the subject because all I can think about is how she must talk about me behind my back. She had to watch my son and daughter over a week last summer, and my son overheard some of the things that she said and was kind enough to share with me...

It has been in the last two years that we moved back to our home town and have been living close enough to her to see that there are issues with boundaries, criticism, gossip, etc. I didn't see her enough in the first 21 years of my marriage to have these issues, but had I known things would be this way I'd have never moved back here in the first place.

I feel deep hatred toward her at times, and, unfortunately, I feel the same way about my H at times, more than ever since we've had these issues with his mother. Sometimes I just shut down and hold it all in because I will go to talk with him about it, and he'll say something sarcastic like "oh, so you want to talk about my mom again?"...

Anyway, we've certainly had our share of marriage problems over the past two+ decades, but these issues with my MIL are, second to EAs and one PA, the worst we've had to deal with that invade us from the outside-in.

Yes, CWMI, the following was your first response, and as follows were my pissy posts that I deleted. I will leave them in from now on. I do regret my defensive and "pissy" responses, and apologize. I did not feel that you waited to hear the whole story, but instead chose to jump to conclusions and disregard my problem as not being marriage related. I will try to be less defensive in my future responses, but ask that you also seek to listen to the whole story before forming accusations.

Your initial post:
"Refusing an offering only to step in and steal it later is passive aggressive. In probably one of the most disgusting forms.

How does your H feel about this? How is your marriage? This isn't Realtionship with Inlaw Builders..."

My inital responses which were defensive/pissy, and I will try to do better:

"Kind of like how she has this lunch crowd that she goes out to lunch once a month with, and invites me to go every time, and every time says that she should put my email on the invite list, but "forgets" to do that as well so that she can have control over inviting me."

"And, BTW, my H wants me to be more assertive with her. She invited herself on our last family vacation, and he had to uninvite her. And, excuse me if you don't think this is the place to deal with things that don't affect your marriage like overbearing inlaws trying to control and manipulate their grown children's marriages. If you don't want to answer, in the future, be my guest and don't."

Thanks Opt - you are right, I posted about hating my H last Nov, and before that about not being truly honest if you in fact have changed... I did not follow Melody Lane's advice, but gave up on MB too soon. I regret that, but will read it and give MB another try. My H and I have been going to marriage counseling, so I did not just give up on my marriage altogether, but I haven't been trying as hard as I should have been but have been giving into the hatred instead.

Hatred is a strong emotion. You are in conflict rather than withdrawal. There is hope.

Focus on:
Eliminating love busters
20 hous/week of UA time meeting each others intimate EN

Your H is showing a willingness to use Poja regarding your dealings with your mil. That's a good start.

CP,
If you don't have a good understanding of MB principles after having experienced infidelity, then I have very grave concerns. Most likely you never REALLY recovered from the adultery. You think you did, but you did not. I am a prime living, divorced, example of that.

Dr. Harley has found ONE single effective path to recovery from infidelity. The ideas must be implemented accurately or a repeat affair always looms and is inevitable. Mostly because you eventually fall back into the same patterns that made the affair possible. People simply don't understand what protections have to be put in place to guard against further infidelity.

In fact you need to read "Surviving an Affair." Priority.

I'm glad you came back and are now going to give more effort to learning the basic concepts and implementing the strategies here. Read, read, read.

You will find that once you and your husband both have mastery over the ways to conduct a MB marriage, problems like your MIL can be solved together in a caring and respectful, cooperative way.

It takes time to "get it" but your M will be better than ever.

Once you learn the concepts and start having a better understanding of MB principles, you can ditch the "marriage" counselor. In fact you should probably do so now. They tend to do more harm than good, especially if there is a history of infidelity. Most therapists know about as much about infidelity as they know about how to construct a laser-guided missile.

CP, I hope you listen to optimism because he really gave you great advice. Your marriage has not ever recovered. Rather than deal with a specific situation, you need to learn the skills in your marriage to handle conflict and to restore love. Marriages that don't recover limp along in a crippled marriage soaked in resentment and hatred. Who had the affairs and when?

This program could restore the romantic love in your marriage and help you deal with your MIL in a united approach that benefits your marriage.

What is the background with the affairs? Has your marriage been affair proofed since?

CP, hang in there, hon. I see a happy future for you, where your marriage will be strong enough that this passive aggressive stuff will be like water off a duck's back.

When we are not feeling secure, feeling insecure, everything looks and feels like a threat. It's temporary, and you have something permanent. In a happy 23 year marriage, an unused stone would be a source of amusement, an inside joke, not something where you're trying to talk to your H about something he doesn't want to hear. Have you reread the Friends go Good Conversation lately? You and your H can tackle the issues, too, but let him be a respite for you, also. What do you to enjoy talking about? Or maybe some good RC will let this all sink into perspective. Your life is so much bigger than whatever that stone symbolizes to you.